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So, I know this looks pretty locked up for the Warriors, but I wouldn’t speak so quickly. They may be able to get away with half-assing games against the rest of the league, but if they don’t wake up and actually decide to play their game, I think Lebron is the one guy who could make them pay. If they sleepwalk through games like they did against Houston they could be in some trouble. 

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On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said:
She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.)
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5 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

So, I know this looks pretty locked up for the Warriors, but I wouldn’t speak so quickly. They may be able to get away with half-assing games against the rest of the league, but if they don’t wake up and actually decide to play their game, I think Lebron is the one guy who could make them pay. If they sleepwalk through games like they did against Houston they could be in some trouble. 

LeBron might, might, make them pay.  But he's not going to make them pay four times.

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It's funny how are trying to use the Celtics are some scapegoat. It has nothing to do with them and everything to do with how watered down the East has been since Lebron took over. Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that he probably would not have done as well in The West where the teams have been so much better? And that maybe, given his finals record, his dominance might just be bit overstated given the lack of any real challenge for him in The East. 

I mean, Lebron having a bit more of a challenge having to play against The Spurs, Lakers, Warrior, Rockets, through the years shouldn't be a hard thing to accept.

But you keep think thinking he'd own The West having to go through guys like Kobe, Kawhi, Duncan, Durant, CP3 and Curry the same what he's dominated The East. 

That's just ludicrous. 

You think he gets away with trolling the league bringing this garbage team to The Finals out West? Yes or No. 

Red Sox: 8    Celtics: 17    Bruins: 6    Patriots: 5

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Just now, ozzyman314 said:

It's funny how are trying to use the Celtics are some scapegoat. It has nothing to do with them and everything to do with how watered down the East has been since Lebron took over. Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that he probably would not have done as well in The West where the teams have been so much better? And that maybe, given his finals record, his dominance might just be bit overstated given the lack of any real challenge for him in The East. 

I mean, Lebron having a bit more of a challenge having to play against The Spurs, Lakers, Warrior, Rockets, through the years shouldn't be a hard thing to accept.

But you keep think thinking he'd own The West having to go through guys like Kobe, Kawhi, Duncan, Durant, CP3 and Curry the same what he's dominated The East. 

That's just ludicrous. 

You think he gets away with trolling the league bringing this garbage team to The Finals out West? Yes or No. 

I think given when and why this whole thing started, it has something to do with the Celtics.

Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse."

 

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Just now, OnWis97 said:

I think given when and why this whole thing started, it has something to do with the Celtics.

No, you just want it to because it's an easy scapegoat. 

Maybe it has something more to do with the fact Lebron made it to The Finals with another lottery team? 

 

I've said before I'd still be as pissed if it was the 76ers or Bucks he beat in the ECF. Again, you think Lebron gets away with this trolling garbage in The West? Considering everyone's unyielding defense of him, you probably do.

Do you also not understand how it's kind of an embarrassment to the league Lebron can take a band bums thrown together halfway through the season to The Finals? 

Red Sox: 8    Celtics: 17    Bruins: 6    Patriots: 5

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3 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

No, you just want it to because it's an easy scapegoat. 

Maybe it has something more to do with the fact Lebron made it to The Finals with another lottery team? 

 

I've said before I'd still be as pissed if it was the 76ers or Bucks he beat in the ECF. Again, you think Lebron gets away with this trolling garbage in The West? Considering everyone's unyielding defense of him, you probably do.

Do you also not understand how it's kind of an embarrassment to the league Lebron can take a band bums thrown together halfway through the season to The Finals? 

Last time I checked, LeBron James doesn't build the other teams in the East. If they can't get a team together that beats this Cavaliers team, one that is significantly weaker than last year's team, then that's on them, not him. The Celtics seemingly played better without their best players on the court. Sometimes that's what happens for a short amount of time. The Celtics took it all the way to 7 games against one of the best ever players in the NBA. As far as being an embarrassment to the league? The biggest names on the Celtics team are not on the court, except for Brad Stevens. Do you really think the NBA is sad that LeBron James is playing in another Finals? TheNBA and ABC can also sell the Nance family angle, as well as Kevin Love coming back from another injury in Game 1 much more easily than repeating the same story about how scrappy Boston was for the last month, especially if the Warriors just wipe the floor with them.

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6 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

No, you just want it to because it's an easy scapegoat. 

Maybe it has something more to do with the fact Lebron made it to The Finals with another lottery team? 

 

I've said before I'd still be as pissed if it was the 76ers or Bucks he beat in the ECF. Again, you think Lebron gets away with this trolling garbage in The West? Considering everyone's unyielding defense of him, you probably do.

Do you also not understand how it's kind of an embarrassment to the league Lebron can take a band bums thrown together halfway through the season to The Finals? 

As a fan of a Western Conference team that tends to peak right at those times when the West is most superior to the East, nobody would like to see the conferences balanced more than I would.  

 

But this came out right as the Celtics went down and it was a Celtics fan who brought it up and keeps it going.  That was my point.  It was snarky.  

 

Right, he's had some good fortune.  He only plays most good teams twice a year.  He didn't have to beat the quality of teams in the first round that the top West teams did.  It's no more embarrassing than the 2006 Cardinals, a six-seed Super Bowl Champ, or an eight-seeded NHL team winning it all. In fact, it's a great narrative.  The league's best and most famous player is putting a bunch of scrubs on his back and finding ways to beat teams...no, none of those teams are the 1997 Bulls but they all have more balanced rosters than the Cavs.  I'd argue it's not embarrassing at all; the closest it gets to that is how unbalanced the conferences are.  And like I said, I wish that wasn't the case.  But conferences and divisions go through cycles like that.  Has LeBron taken advantage?  Sure.  But let's not pretend that a Celtics (or Raptors) series win somehow validates the East and makes LeBron's so-so accomplishments look better.  He's eight-for-his-last-eight...and while the conference are unbalanced, these are still NBA teams.  And he has always found a way.  And he's putting outrageous miles on his body in doing so.  It's impressive and should be appreciated.

Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse."

 

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6 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

Last time I checked, LeBron James doesn't build the other teams in the East. If they can't get a team together that beats this Cavaliers team, one that is significantly weaker than last year's team, then that's on them, not him. The Celtics seemingly played better without their best players on the court. Sometimes that's what happens for a short amount of time. The Celtics took it all the way to 7 games against one of the best ever players in the NBA. As far as being an embarrassment to the league? The biggest names on the Celtics team are not on the court, except for Brad Stevens. Do you really think the NBA is sad that LeBron James is playing in another Finals? TheNBA and ABC can also sell the Nance family angle, as well as Kevin Love coming back from another injury in Game 1 much more easily than repeating the same story about how scrappy Boston was for the last month, especially if the Warriors just wipe the floor with them.

He's had the option to go to a Western team. Hmmm, why do you think he hasn't? Could it be that he's smart enough to realize he wouldn't have nearly the stranglehold on The West as he does in the East? 

The fact that he can troll his way to The Finals with this team shows it is kind of on him. What the Hell are teams like The Raptors & Pacers supposed to do when even with their best shot they can beat a team Lebron through together at the last minute? 

How can you not see Lebron making the Finals with such a bad team isn't a bad look for The League. Yes of course The League & Networks love it, just like the love The Knights making The Finals in their first year. 

But when some garbage team can go all the way because of 1 guy, it kind of sits on everything you're supposed to value in sports. 

 

9 minutes ago, OnWis97 said:

As a fan of a Western Conference team that tends to peak right at those times when the West is most superior to the East, nobody would like to see the conferences balanced more than I would.  

 

But this came out right as the Celtics went down and it was a Celtics fan who brought it up and keeps it going.  That was my point.  It was snarky.  

 

Right, he's had some good fortune.  He only plays most good teams twice a year.  He didn't have to beat the quality of teams in the first round that the top West teams did.  It's no more embarrassing than the 2006 Cardinals, a six-seed Super Bowl Champ, or an eight-seeded NHL team winning it all. In fact, it's a great narrative.  The league's best and most famous player is putting a bunch of scrubs on his back and finding ways to beat teams...no, none of those teams are the 1997 Bulls but they all have more balanced rosters than the Cavs.  I'd argue it's not embarrassing at all; the closest it gets to that is how unbalanced the conferences are.  And like I said, I wish that wasn't the case.  But conferences and divisions go through cycles like that.  Has LeBron taken advantage?  Sure.  But let's not pretend that a Celtics (or Raptors) series win somehow validates the East and makes LeBron's so-so accomplishments look better.  He's eight-for-his-last-eight...and while the conference are unbalanced, these are still NBA teams.  And he has always found a way.  And he's putting outrageous miles on his body in doing so.  It's impressive and should be appreciated.

How is it a great narrative? We already know at this point Lebron is one of the greatest to play and this is just bludgeoning our heads with the fact.  It's not like he missed The Finals the past few years and people questioned if he'd ever make it back again, and then he does with a :censored:ty squad no one thought he would. It's the exact opposite. 

It's not impressive anymore, it's completely embarrassing that he can single handedly take a lottery team that he throw together midway through the season to The Finals again. For most of the teams in the East, it's like "what's the :censored:ing point?" he just trolled an entire conference and you somehow think that's a good thing?

 

And I keep noticing my main question keeps being dodged,

Does Lebron see the same kind of success if he played his career out West? Does he still make 8 straight Finals or anything close to that? 

That's been my whole point from the beginning. As amazing as he is, his achievements like  "8-straight Finals" and dragging this shiity team to The Finals is more a product of how bad The East has been over the years. That doesn't happen out West and you know it.     

Red Sox: 8    Celtics: 17    Bruins: 6    Patriots: 5

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13 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

He's had the option to go to a Western team. Hmmm, why do you think he hasn't? Could it be that he's smart enough to realize he wouldn't have nearly the stranglehold on The West as he does in the East? 

 

Does Lebron see the same kind of success if he played his career out West? Does he still make 8 straight Finals or anything close to that? 

That's been my whole point from the beginning. As amazing as he is, his achievements like  "8-straight Finals" and dragging this shiity team to The Finals is more a product of how bad The East has been over the years. That doesn't happen out West and you know it.     

So because he's smart enough to play in the East instead of running a seemingly endless gauntlet in the West that's a mark against him? Especially when the Cleveland team that he went back to won 30 games the year before? I think that team making the playoffs, let alone the Finals was a bigger ask than beating a Golden State team that was still unknown when he went back to Cleveland. And why do you keep using the word troll? He's not calling other players or teams out, he's just winning games. And if he goes to the West this offseason like everyone wants to happen to avoid a LeBron vs Warrior V, what happens if he joins the Warriors? Not likely, just asking.

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25 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

And I keep noticing my main question keeps being dodged,

Does Lebron see the same kind of success if he played his career out West? Does he still make 8 straight Finals or anything close to that? 

That's been my whole point from the beginning. As amazing as he is, his achievements like  "8-straight Finals" and dragging this shiity team to The Finals is more a product of how bad The East has been over the years. That doesn't happen out West and you know it.     

 

For one, nobody's dodging your question. It's been answered countless times. You just didn't like the answer. The answer is "maybe not, but..." Maybe he loses a conference finals or two in the West, but if he starts his career in the west then the last 15 years of league history unfold completely different. Free agents choose the East over the west, team records are different so lotteries go to other teams, and so on and so forth. Who knows what his supporting cast would look like if he was on a team in the West? If he's in the West the league doesn't look the same as it does now. His influence shapes the roster of every other team. That's a concept you keep dodging. 

 

And two, that doesn't mean that making 8 straight finals in the East isn't also a remarkable achievement on its own. He never got injured, an opponent never put together a team good enough to knock him off, he's played the equivalent of two extra seasons in intense games and still made it to June every year. These are the best basketball players in the world and he still beats them every year. If you don't understand why that's impressive by now you're being willfully obtuse. 

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1 hour ago, ozzyman314 said:

You think he gets away with trolling the league bringing this garbage team to The Finals out West? Yes or No. 

 

Considering he played in the West, it wouldn't be the same garbage Eastern squad, would it, but a superior Western team around him, right? Or does the premise of him playing in the West oblige him to be surrounded by the same roster only?

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Just now, truepg said:

 

Considering he played in the West, it wouldn't be the same garbage Eastern squad, would it, but a superior Western team around him, right? Or does the premise of him playing in the West oblige him to be surrounded by the same roster only?

This. If he goes West he's picking a team that can win right now or has the parts in place to trade for who he wants on the team. And guess what? That's probably Houston, San Antonio or the Lakers. If you add LeBron to Houston do you think it even gets to Game 7? 

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Just now, MJWalker45 said:

This. If he goes West he's picking a team that can win right now or has the parts in place to trade for who he wants on the team. And guess what? That's probably Houston, San Antonio or the Lakers. If you add LeBron to Houston do you think it even gets to Game 7? 

 

Or, what I was implying, was that he would automatically have a superior roster around him in the West, since it would be a Western team. Right?

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8 minutes ago, truepg said:

 

Or, what I was implying, was that he would automatically have a superior roster around him in the West, since it would be a Western team. Right?

Most likely yes since I can't see him not playing for a Top 4 team regardless of the money on offer. 

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It's the Butterfly Effect. DG already brought up the alternate history if Memphis wins the lottery for him. That's an almost impossible 'What If?' discussion to have because it changes everything so much we have no way of knowing how the league unfolds after that. The Sonics might still exist and the Cavs could be in Oklahoma City. We don't know. The only certain thing in that scenario is if he goes West then both conferences look remarkably different today than they do right now.

 

Imagine the alternate universe where he's taking the Lakers to their 8th straight final, Sabresrule is bitching about how boring that is and how the Lakers always get the good players just because it's LA, and Ozzyman is on here going "yeah but it's not an accomplishment because he did it in the super crappy West. I'd like to see him do it in the East".

 

It's a chucklehead argument.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

So because he's smart enough to play in the East instead of running a seemingly endless gauntlet in the West that's a mark against him? Especially when the Cleveland team that he went back to won 30 games the year before? I think that team making the playoffs, let alone the Finals was a bigger ask than beating a Golden State team that was still unknown when he went back to Cleveland. And why do you keep using the word troll? He's not calling other players or teams out, he's just winning games. And if he goes to the West this offseason like everyone wants to happen to avoid a LeBron vs Warrior V, what happens if he joins the Warriors? Not likely, just asking.

Considering The West has had much stronger teams over The Years in comparison to the East, it certainly diminishes the accomplishment. And at this point him making it to The Finals with such a bad team is kind of a troll to all the other teams in The East. 

 

44 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

For one, nobody's dodging your question. It's been answered countless times. You just didn't like the answer. The answer is "maybe not, but..." Maybe he loses a conference finals or two in the West, but if he starts his career in the west then the last 15 years of league history unfold completely different. Free agents choose the East over the west, team records are different so lotteries go to other teams, and so on and so forth. If he's in the West the league doesn't look the same as it does now. His influence shapes the roster of every other team. That's a concept you keep dodging. 

 

And two, that doesn't mean that making 8 straight finals in the East isn't also a remarkable achievement on its own. He never got injured, an opponent never put together a team good enough to knock him off, he's played the equivalent of two extra seasons in intense games and still made it to June every year. These are the best basketball players in the world and he still beats them every year. If you don't understand why that's impressive by now you're being willfully obtuse.

It's not exactly a hard question to answer and you're making it needlessly more complicated than it has to be just to defend him. 

Give him the same calibre of teams he's had over the years, but in The West. Where he has to go through Kawhi's Spurs, Kobe's Lakers, Grizzlies, Curry's Warriors, The Rockets, etc over the years, does he replicate the dominance he has in The East? You know the answer is no he doesn't. 

So why is it so hard to accept that he's benefitted by staying in the weaker conference and that diminishes those kind of achievements? Like bragging about all the division titles The Patriots won. Sure it's impressive, and may not happen again, but it's not that impressive when you realize the lack of any real competition they faced for it. 

Again, If he did that while facing all those amazing teams The West had, that's certainly more of an accomplishment to the clabre you think it is. 

39 minutes ago, truepg said:

 

Considering he played in the West, it wouldn't be the same garbage Eastern squad, would it, but a superior Western team around him, right? Or does the premise of him playing in the West oblige him to be surrounded by the same roster only?

:censored: put him on The Kings, does he make The Finals this year like in The East. No he doesn't. He loses in the first round. 

    

 

Lebron doesn't have the same success in The West going through all those stacked WC teams through the years as he does in The East. Why are you all trying so hard like massive fanboys to avoid the fact?

Would he still be considered one the greats? Yes, but he'd just have a fraction of that success because he actually faced competition getting there.  

 

It's not a bad thing to acknowledge, "hey this guy was one of the greats, but the fact that he never faced strong competition (except at The Finals where he clearly struggled) hurts his legacy a bit." 

Red Sox: 8    Celtics: 17    Bruins: 6    Patriots: 5

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2 hours ago, ozzyman314 said:

It's funny how are trying to use the Celtics are some scapegoat. It has nothing to do with them and everything to do with how watered down the East has been since Lebron took over. Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that he probably would not have done as well in The West where the teams have been so much better?

Consistency, man. That’s why. 

You have, for over a year now, been saying that the Celtics were going to run away with the East and challenge the Warriors. 

 

Now that LeBron’s Cavs have beaten them? You can’t shut up about how the East sucks and LeBron is dominating basketball’s equivalent of the Arena Football League (which is laughable in and of itself).

 

You went from praising the Celtics as the next team to take the NBA by storm to saying the entire East sucks anyway so LeBron’s dominance doesn’t really count.

 

It all just makes you look salty and bitter about the fact that the Cavs beat the Celtics. 

Learn to live with it and stop making laughably absurd assertions.

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