2018 NBA Post Season

[Sport]

59 minutes ago, CLEstones said:

Only Cleveland can out-Cleveland themselves.

 

From any unbiased fans... should I be P.O.'ed at the refs?

 

I say yes. I checked some non-partisan twitter accounts last night and everyone pretty much agreed that was a blatant misuse of the rules to help the Warriors. 

[8BW14]

1 hour ago, CLEstones said:

Only Cleveland can out-Cleveland themselves.

 

From any unbiased fans... should I be P.O.'ed at the refs?

I don't know. That rule about being able to review a block/charge was implemented correctly, I think. Apparently that rule is a little unclear. I thought it was a pretty obvious block in the first place. Durant didn't initiate the contact and Lebron was still leaning/sliding/hadn't established his position,but I'm not sure how I feel about using replay to review and overturn a judgement call. That's a situation where the refs need to get together and make the right call. I think they got the call right, but the way they got there wasn't exactly kosher. Tossing Thompson was weird. Green should have gotten a tech too, but there was no reason for Tristan Thompson to take a swing at him. He should probably be suspended. 

 

On on another note, I don't know how Lebron restrained himself from dropping JR Smith at the end of the 4th. No wonder he has to score 50 if he has to deal with teammates like that.

[crashcarson15]

7 minutes ago, 8BW14 said:

I don't know. That rule about being able to review a block/charge was implemented correctly. I thought it was a pretty obvious block in the first place. Durant didn't initiate the contact and Lebron was still sliding/leaning/moving and hadn't established his position, but it took way too long to straighten it all out. Tossing Thompson was weird. Green should have gotten a tech too, but there was no reason for Tristan Thompson to take a swing at him. He should probably be suspended. 

 

On on another note, I don't know how Lebron restrained himself from dropping JR Smith at the end of the 4th. No wonder he has to score 50 if he has to deal with teammates like that.

I mean, either the rule wasn't implemented correctly, or every guy on that crew should never work an NBA game again. If you have doubt over whether or not a guy that's 3-4 feet outside the restricted area is outside the restricted area, you're not qualified to be a high school official, let alone an NBA ref.

[OnWis97]

Yesterday was a throwback to my being soured by the NBA 15 or 20 years ago, the most noteworthy moment being Lakers vs. Sacramento. I don't feel like it's been as bad in recent years, particularly after Kobe retired.  But yesterday was simply awful.  Awful, and one-sided, to the point that I am struggling to think it's a coincidence.  The NBA's legitimacy regarding officiating has always been questioned more than other sports and I personally feel the NBA has earned that. One of the problems with the discussion is you'll get someone saying "if the games were fixed, someone would leak it."  No...the games are not fixed.  But it's also not just a black/white "100% legit or 100% fixed."  The NBA at times seems to hedge their bets simply by giving stars preferential treatment.  Fans accept it and it makes the stars more likely to advance in the playoffs.  

 

That said, this one is confusing because greed-driving officiating should have helped Cleveland. There is no next round, so it's not about who wins; it should be about extending the series.  And a Cleveland win makes that more likely.  This one is going four or five now.  I think the other thing that happens in a sport that, historically, is more about rewarding team/player than the merit of the play is that officials kinda get caught up in that.  And somehow by the end of regulation, it seemed like they were kinda swept up in Warrior-fever or something.  The dynasty started getting calls because they were the dynasty.  

 

One observation I have is what happened to LeBron on that replay would 100% never have happened to Jordan or Kobe.  I know LeBron gets preferential treatment just like all superstars...but I don't think he gets the Jordan/Kobe treatment.  

 

Officiating basketball must be very difficult.  And bad calls are part of the game.  But it's terrible to see the officials appear to find a way to get one team over the top.

 

1 hour ago, CLEstones said:

Only Cleveland can out-Cleveland themselves.

 

From any unbiased fans... should I be P.O.'ed at the refs?

 

I chose not to answer this because I am not unbiased.  I am pulling for Cleveland.  I liked Jordan and liked seeing him win championships and I feel the same about LeBron. No, I am not a "fanboy." Hell, part of it is me being contrarian to how hated he is (or at least how hated he was).  Also, I am a firm believer that circumstances matter, and 3-6 is going to be the most mis-used stat there is. Add to that the 180 I did on GSW when Durant signed and, I guess I am not unbiased even though I only really get upset when it's my team getting hosed.

 

24 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

I say yes. I checked some non-partisan twitter accounts last night and everyone pretty much agreed that was a blatant misuse of the rules to help the Warriors. 

I tend to agree that neutral fans feel like the officials helped get Golden State through that game last night.  Then again, given how polarizing LBJ and the GSW are, I don't know how many truly unbiased fans there are.  

 

In two weeks, this will just be remembered as another series LeBron lost because he can't get it done in the Finals and is just winning the weak-ass East.  And in that sense, I feel for him.  He long ago accepted that he's carrying a lottery team around on his back.  But couldn't they at least get their heads out of their asses and understand the time/score situation?  I figured they'd go into OT deflated.  I think they'll go into the rest of the series that way.  Warriors in four. "3-6 in the finals and he was swept in 2018.  Choker."

 

 

[dfwabel]

For those without NBATV, here is Joe Borgia discussing the play.

 

[8BW14]

5 minutes ago, crashcarson15 said:

I mean, either the rule wasn't implemented correctly, or every guy on that crew should never work an NBA game again. If you have doubt over whether or not a guy that's 3-4 feet outside the restricted area is outside the restricted area, you're not qualified to be a high school official, let alone an NBA ref.

You're right, I misunderstood the rule, actually the only thing they should have been able to review was whether he was in the restricted area. I thought a block was the right call, but they probably did get there the wrong way.

[OnWis97]

22 minutes ago, 8BW14 said:

You're right, I misunderstood the rule, actually the only thing they should have been able to review was whether he was in the restricted area. I thought a block was the right call, but they probably did get there the wrong way.

Those are tough calls and they don't review them because otherwise the slippery slope would have reviews of travels, etc.  

 

That was a tough call...I was about 51% of the opinion that it was a block.  But they should not get to the right call there.  That's a bad (not very bad) call they need to live with or else I want a review on all the blocks/strips that went in Golden State's favor.

 

We like calls to be right, but this is a case where getting it right was bad.

[Lights Out]

Win or lose, unless he totally craps the bed in the next three games, LeBron deserves Finals MVP. He's the best player on the court this series and it's not even close. Iggy getting it over him in 2015 was a travesty - the league shouldn't make the same mistake a second time.

[OnWis97]

Just now, Lights Out said:

Win or lose, unless he totally craps the bed in the next three games, LeBron deserves Finals MVP. He's the best player on the court this series and it's not even close. Iggy getting it over him in 2015 was a travesty - the league shouldn't make the same mistake a second time.

He won't get it.  I thought he should have gotten in 2015.  But that puts me in the minority.  Most people think the MVP has to come from the winning team.  

I personally feel that it should come from the winning team in all but the most unusual circumstance.  2015 was the most unusual circumstance.  Kyrie and Love were out and LeBron single-handedly made that a series.  He should have been MVP in my opinion.  It's a bit too early to start talking MVP now, but he was the best player last night...

[oldschoolvikings]

Oh, come on.  I understand everyone that hates the Warriors and/or loves Lebron is salty, and I understand that the way they arrived at the overturn leaves a bad taste. but...

 

That was a block. Period. He hadn't set, feet were sliding, upper body leaning in. Don't make yourself look worse by complaining about the wrong thing.

[Crabcake]

I almost never watched basketball growing up, so it’s still the sport I have the least amount of understanding with when it comes to rules and refs’ calls. 

 

But it across all sports it seems like replay should only be used to overturn a call if the refs made a clear and obvious error. Like I said, I don’t know much about basketball rules and charges/blocks etc, but to me it looked that that was not a clear and obvious error. There was a lot of debate as that replay showed. No matter whether it was the “right” call, I think it should have stood. 

[Sport]

5 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said:

Oh, come on.  I understand everyone that hates the Warriors and/or loves Lebron is salty, and I understand that the way they arrived at the overturn leaves a bad taste. but...

 

That was a block. Period. He hadn't set, feet were sliding, upper body leaning in. Don't make yourself look worse by complaining about the wrong thing.

 

The problem is that they reviewed it for the wrong reasons and then decided in the midst of the review to change the call, which sucks because they obviously didn't review every single thing the Warriors did in the game, just that one play. It'd be like if in football they reviewed a spot and while reviewing decided there was actually defensive holding they missed the first time. 

[Crabcake]

Also, @J.R. Smith:

 

[oldschoolvikings]

1 minute ago, McCarthy said:

 

The problem is that they reviewed it for the wrong reasons and then decided in the midst of the review to change the call, which sucks because they obviously didn't review every single thing the Warriors did in the game, just that one play. It'd be like if in football they reviewed a spot and while reviewing decided there was actually defensive holding they missed the first time. 

 

Oh, yeah, I get that... very suspect.  But the call itself...

[crashcarson15]

18 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said:

He hadn't set

You don't have to be set to take a charge.

[CLEstones]

1 hour ago, 8BW14 said:

I don't know. That rule about being able to review a block/charge was implemented correctly, I think. Apparently that rule is a little unclear. I thought it was a pretty obvious block in the first place. Durant didn't initiate the contact and Lebron was still leaning/sliding/hadn't established his position,but I'm not sure how I feel about using replay to review and overturn a judgement call. That's a situation where the refs need to get together and make the right call. I think they got the call right, but the way they got there wasn't exactly kosher. Tossing Thompson was weird. Green should have gotten a tech too, but there was no reason for Tristan Thompson to take a swing at him. He should probably be suspended. 

 

On on another note, I don't know how Lebron restrained himself from dropping JR Smith at the end of the 4th. No wonder he has to score 50 if he has to deal with teammates like that.

 

I thought it was a block, I'll be honest.

 

However, I DON'T think they implemented the replay properly.  They said they were checking to see if he was inside the restricted circle... which he was clearly outside of.  It wasn't even close.  So it looks like they implemented the rule completely wrong, using it to determine if it was a charge or a block, because neither official wanted to own the call.  The rule states you can still be moving in order to take a charge.

 

I guess my question was more with the entirety of the officiating.  It was disastrous from the start.  It just seemed like every call was going GSW's way... especially when it got late into 4Q and OT.

[CLEstones]

1 hour ago, OnWis97 said:

One observation I have is what happened to LeBron on that replay would 100% never have happened to Jordan or Kobe.  I know LeBron gets preferential treatment just like all superstars...but I don't think he gets the Jordan/Kobe treatment.  

 

 

I'm not a fan of LeBron's constant crying... but it seems has a constant case.  In comparison, he gets the least super star calls in memory, especially for someone with his resume that continues to include accolades never done before.

 

I believe I counted 4 easy calls that officials chose to not call last night on LeBron.  The broadcast crew reinforced it.  I get LBJ is much like Shaq and just impossible to officiate fairly... but I think when you have guys hitting you in the face or waking your forearm right in front of you, when Steph is guarding LBJ on the 3pt arc and he's slapping his arms 4, 5, 6 times trying to steal the ball... those are easy calls.

[OaklandIsBack]

They said on the broadcast that they can review block/charge now, not just restricted zone

[crashcarson15]

Just now, OaklandIsBack said:

They said on the broadcast that they can review block/charge now, not just restricted zone

You can only review block/charge as part of a restricted area review. The play should've never been reviewed, as LeBron was clearly well outside the restricted area.

[Digby]

7 hours ago, Wings said:

Watch the Warriors win by 40 on Sunday. Poor Cavs. 

 

It seems this burgeoning Warriors dynasty came along at the wrong time especially with the climate in America today. The Celtics, Lakers, Bulls, Spurs & even the Heat dynasty's of the past will always be looked upon with reverence. When people look at the Warriors they see the corporate techy gentrification that's going on. Having a smug as hell owner in Joe Lacob doesn't help either and Durant joining up with them made it worse. They'll be remembered as great but not looked upon fondly. 

 

I'm not sure. I think it's sad that Oracle was one of the league's legendary arenas but the fans who made it that way all got priced out once they finally had a team worth making noise for. But also kind of inevitable because pro sports tickets are as supply-and-demand as anything else and everyone loves to bandwagon. The move to San Francisco would be too on-the-nose if not for the fact that Oakland's been 90 percent Brooklyn'd by now anyway.

 

Sorry, tangent. I think more importantly, though, is that the Warriors dynasty will be remembered for how they look on the floor, and how they were the avatars for the perimeter game, gazillion threes, mostly positionless, fast and fun NBA era. As a team they have such a strong identity in how they play that I can't imagine forgetting that. It's hard to tell without hindsight but it feels to me as distinctive for this moment as the Showtime Lakers, and the Bird/McHale Celtics, and the boring-but-effective Spurs. The fact that this has all happened to conveniently give idiot Silicon Valley types another outlet to be insufferable is unfortunate but secondary.

 

The funny thing is that I do agree that Curry got unlikeable once the tunnel three thing got old, and Durant is just always misery, and Draymond is horrible, and Thompson has the worst facial hair in NBA history. But that, too, is secondary to what happens on the court with this crew.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, OnWis97 said:

Yesterday was a throwback to my being soured by the NBA 15 or 20 years ago, the most noteworthy moment being Lakers vs. Sacramento. I don't feel like it's been as bad in recent years, particularly after Kobe retired.  But yesterday was simply awful.  Awful, and one-sided, to the point that I am struggling to think it's a coincidence.  The NBA's legitimacy regarding officiating has always been questioned more than other sports and I personally feel the NBA has earned that. One of the problems with the discussion is you'll get someone saying "if the games were fixed, someone would leak it."  No...the games are not fixed.  But it's also not just a black/white "100% legit or 100% fixed."  The NBA at times seems to hedge their bets simply by giving stars preferential treatment.  Fans accept it and it makes the stars more likely to advance in the playoffs.  

 

That said, this one is confusing because greed-driving officiating should have helped Cleveland. There is no next round, so it's not about who wins; it should be about extending the series.  And a Cleveland win makes that more likely.  This one is going four or five now.  I think the other thing that happens in a sport that, historically, is more about rewarding team/player than the merit of the play is that officials kinda get caught up in that.  And somehow by the end of regulation, it seemed like they were kinda swept up in Warrior-fever or something.  The dynasty started getting calls because they were the dynasty.  

 

One observation I have is what happened to LeBron on that replay would 100% never have happened to Jordan or Kobe.  I know LeBron gets preferential treatment just like all superstars...but I don't think he gets the Jordan/Kobe treatment.  

 

Officiating basketball must be very difficult.  And bad calls are part of the game.  But it's terrible to see the officials appear to find a way to get one team over the top.

 

 

 

Yeah this is the thing -- I can't really see a cogent argument why the NBA would intentionally favor one of these teams over the other. They're the moneymakers. If the Cavs are getting favorable calls while in a close one against the Pacers, that's one thing for the "fixed" argument. 

 

I think, beyond the usual home cooking, it's just a hard game to officiate these days, made worse by a rulebook on judgement calls that I fear will be more bat :censored: than NFL catch rules in a few years. But who knows!

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

I think nose bleeds were marked up over $600. I'd skip the game too. 

 

That'd be true in most any NBA city for the Finals though, no?