Universal Maxims of Uniform Design

[Brown1]

Essentially the universal maxims of football were consistent for years and years. The new millennium game and manufacturers have tried new things and we definitely see that now with Nike. But even the Panthers came to be in the 90s and they’ve work UCLA stripes ever since. Basically football uniforms stayed very consistent over a long period of time, they set the standard that a lot of people still follow this day. The Cowboys, Packers, Chiefs, Raiders, Redskins, Dolphins, Colts, Jets, Giants, to name a few are all using designs that have lived on since the 50s, 60s, and 70s. The helmet stripe usually matches the pants stripe and then throw a jersey on top. That’s the definition of a traditional, classic, live forever design. The teams that experiment with new designs, going away from tradition are the ones getting new designs every few years.

[WavePunter]

1 hour ago, Brown1 said:

The Browns jersey is just an old 3 stripe with the middles filled a different color. There wasn’t that many options in the 1950s. Plain, 3 stripe, Northwestern stripe, and UCLA strip would have been the standard template back then. So essentially the browns were wearing and the Packer wear essentially what is one the oldest universal maxims in football uniforms as the pants and helmets? I would even argue it’s still practiced today and almost every throwback uniform that comes to mind even in college has pants with the three stripe, no? 

So in a forum about universal maxims, you are pointing out two uniforms designed 70 years ago when the universal maxim for football pants was 3 stripe, 2 stripe, which was really a 3 stripe with the middle stripe matching the pants, single stripe, or no stripe. Show me who ever had 5 stripe pants 70 years ago. You THINK they offered 5 stripe pants, I’ve never seen them before, but I’d gladly love to see them! Cleveland went from a great, consistent, old school, classic, solid timeless uniform and killed it. The Packers have consistently carried on football tradition using the standard and most common and known striping pattern on their helmets and pants. They are two teams that up until recently basically define all the universal maxims of football. Triple stripe helmet, matching pants, black shoes, and “simple” uniforms which were technically had a lot going on when they were first designed. Those designs weren’t fads, those designs still live on. If that’s not doing a football uniform right, I dunno what is.

Firstly, the Cal example you showed has 5 stripes on the sleeve.. I understand why you would consider it 3, but most here would consider those blue "spaces" to be blue stripes.. Secondly, I never said there was anything bad about the Packers or Browns classic aesthetic.. In fact, I praised them.. I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue.. You're just agreeing with all the points I've been making..

And thirdly, I can provide several examples of 5-stripe pants if you're really interested.. Including several of the previous Dolphins' pants, and the aforementioned Giants current pants.. 

[Brown1]

First off how smug are you. That’s 3 stripes. You sew three stripes. A manufacturer would call that 3 stripes. I dont care that you assume most people would agree with you.

 

I’ve been asking for examples of 5 stripe pants when the Browns designed those uniforms. Not now. Anything is possible with sublimation now. We should all know that.

[WavePunter]

The 1962 Packers had 5 stripes.. Green/Gold/White/Gold/Green

Also, many traditional stripes would've been knit/woven into the fabric (like the Steelers still are, or at least were very recently), so when producing them, they would literally do them in successive stripes, which pretty much makes them stripes.. Although I typically view them similar to you (as just blank space where the background color is showing through), but it's a minority view around here, and functionally, it's still 5 separate stripes - regardless of order.. If the blue were the center stripe, with white and gold expanding out, then someone would have to "sew" 4 stripes to achieve this (think Florida Gators white jerseys) according to your theory, so it doesn't change much.. 

[Brown1]

24 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

The 1962 Packers had 5 stripes.. Green/Gold/White/Gold/Green

Also, many traditional stripes would've been knit/woven into the fabric (like the Steelers still are, or at least were very recently), so when producing them, they would literally do them in successive stripes, which pretty much makes them stripes.. Although I typically view them similar to you (as just blank space where the background color is showing through), but it's a minority view around here, and functionally, it's still 5 separate stripes - regardless of order.. If the blue were the center stripe, with white and gold expanding out, then someone would have to "sew" 4 stripes to achieve this (think Florida Gators white jerseys) according to your theory, so it doesn't change much.. 

This is a three stripe pattern on a white background. The other is three stripes on a navy uniform. Stop being a the way you are that’s not 5 stripes. If it’s sublimated is it 3 stripes? They sublimated 3 stripes onto a white uniform. But if they sew it.....well NOW it’s TECHNICALLY 5. Whatever fits your narrative.

[Brown1]

I love USC’s 3 stripe pants 

 

But not as much as I love the Leafs 3 stripe sleeves and socks.

[Brown1]

50 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

The 1962 Packers had 5 stripes.. Green/Gold/White/Gold/Green

Well the Browns uniform was introduced in 1946 and you’re speaking of three stripes on yellow pants.

[Chapeeko]

Responding in three separate posts doesn't make your points more valid FYI. I think you two should just agree to disagree, you obviously perceive striping differently.

[Brown1]

7 minutes ago, Chapeeko said:

Responding in three separate posts doesn't make your points more valid FYI. I think you two should just agree to disagree, you obviously perceive striping differently.

Ya man that’s totally why I did it. If you serprate them, then they become more valid. You didn’t know that?

 

Like where the hell do you even come up with something like that in your head? Like sure, ya maybe say three posts is a little much. But, to inform me that it doesn’t make them more valid....what’s the point in that? Do you really think that’s how I thought it worked or do you think maybe I just decided to add more and just made a post instead of editing my previous one? I dunno man, we’re just going to have to live with that mystery looming over our heads.

[WavePunter]

1 hour ago, Brown1 said:

This is a three stripe pattern on a white background. The other is three stripes on a navy uniform. Stop being a the way you are that’s not 5 stripes. If it’s sublimated is it 3 stripes? They sublimated 3 stripes onto a white uniform. But if they sew it.....well NOW it’s TECHNICALLY 5. Whatever fits your narrative.

Sew them, knit them, weave them, screen them, however you want to apply them, it's 5 stripes.. Red/White/Black/White/Red

[Brown1]

1 hour ago, WavePunter said:

Sew them, knit them, weave them, screen them, however you want to apply them, it's 5 stripes.. Red/White/Black/White/Red

Well CCM says otherwise 

https://www.hockeymonkey.com/ccm-hockey-socks-2tone-triple-stripe-sr.html

And that would make Adidas the 5 stripe company then right? You should probably call them and correct them. That’s obviously 5 stripes on the shoulders. Everyone would think that and I’m dumb for thinking otherwise.

[WavePunter]

10 hours ago, Brown1 said:

Well CCM says otherwise 

https://www.hockeymonkey.com/ccm-hockey-socks-2tone-triple-stripe-sr.html

And that would make Adidas the 5 stripe company then right? You should probably call them and correct them. That’s obviously 5 stripes on the shoulders. Everyone would think that and I’m dumb for thinking otherwise.

I still don't know what you're arguing about.. I already told you that I actually view a lot of this the same as you, but in a uniform striping pattern, were stripes are applied to go completely around a uniform element, most would consider each band of color a different stripe, regardless of whether the color is the same as the background material or not.. Adidas slapping 3 black stripes on a pair of white shoes is slightly different than weaving a sleeve or pants braid with multiple colors and systematically working each color in as a stripe.. Or using a team like the Steelers for example, where they use the same exact striping pattern on white and black jerseys, so on the white jersey, you get three yellow stripes that are each sandwiched between two thin black stripes, all with white space in between.. But on the black jersey, you get three yellow stripes with two white stripes between them, with everything separated by empty black space.. It's the exact same striping pattern - so does one jersey have more stripes than the other? 9 stripes on the white jersey and 5 stripes on the black jersey? For the EXACT same pattern? Or does the white jersey only have 3 stripes, since they could probably purchase the trim braid with black order already on it?

We're talking about uniform striping elements, not Sneaker company's tagline.. In a striping pattern, each stripe is part of the pattern.. The  visual effect can certainly be a simple one (such as the idea that Alabama has 2 crimson stripes on their white pants, but it's crimson/white/crimson, so 3 stripes no matter how you swing it), but it doesn't change the number of stripes present in the pattern.. 

[Brown1]

1 hour ago, WavePunter said:

I still don't know what you're arguing about.. I already told you that I actually view a lot of this the same as you, but in a uniform striping pattern, were stripes are applied to go completely around a uniform element, most would consider each band of color a different stripe, regardless of whether the color is the same as the background material or not.. Adidas slapping 3 black stripes on a pair of white shoes is slightly different than weaving a sleeve or pants braid with multiple colors and systematically working each color in as a stripe.. Or using a team like the Steelers for example, where they use the same exact striping pattern on white and black jerseys, so on the white jersey, you get three yellow stripes that are each sandwiched between two thin black stripes, all with white space in between.. But on the black jersey, you get three yellow stripes with two white stripes between them, with everything separated by empty black space.. It's the exact same striping pattern - so does one jersey have more stripes than the other? 9 stripes on the white jersey and 5 stripes on the black jersey? For the EXACT same pattern? Or does the white jersey only have 3 stripes, since they could probably purchase the trim braid with black order already on it?

We're talking about uniform striping elements, not Sneaker company's tagline.. In a striping pattern, each stripe is part of the pattern.. The  visual effect can certainly be a simple one (such as the idea that Alabama has 2 crimson stripes on their white pants, but it's crimson/white/crimson, so 3 stripes no matter how you swing it), but it doesn't change the number of stripes present in the pattern.. 

What makes you get to assume the opinion of “most” others? So Adidas is the 5 stripe company? Most people would tell Adidas they are idiots for having 5 stripes but calling it 3 right? Because you’re saying most people would call that 5 stripes....so therefore the creators of Adidas weren’t smart, turns out they were actually idiots.

[The_Admiral]

16 hours ago, Kaz said:

I just knew this thread would eventually devolve into arguing over stripes 

ya, i agree

[Carolingian Steamroller]

Surprised that no one to my mind has brought up the possibility of making the Saint's helmet stripes solid black? 

 

Maybe not as wide as it is now but now quite as narrow as the Steelers/Giants/Raiders. 

 

Given that "helmet stripes ought to show some type of continuity with pants stripes" appears to be a near universal maxim altering the Saints helmet would be a pretty simple fix. 

[WavePunter]

9 hours ago, Brown1 said:

What makes you get to assume the opinion of “most” others? So Adidas is the 5 stripe company? Most people would tell Adidas they are idiots for having 5 stripes but calling it 3 right? Because you’re saying most people would call that 5 stripes....so therefore the creators of Adidas weren’t smart, turns out they were actually idiots.

The "creators" of Adidas was one guy.. His brother created puma.. 

But again, you're discussing two VERY separate application methods and design elements, and trying to conflate the two.. They're unrelated in nearly every way.. The shoe example does fit your initial premise most accurately, though.. They do exhibit 3 stripes of fabric sewn onto a base substrate.. But this thread is universal maxims of  UNIFORM DESIGN, not sneaker design.. What applies to one doesn't apply to all.. As I've explained, the way stripes have been applied to uniforms from the beginning is as a set-in striping pattern with the exception mainly being screened-on stripes.. Each band of any color is created as an individual stripe, even if it's the background color.. How would you describe the Florida Gators' white jersey stripes? How would you describe the Cal jerseys above if the stripes were exactly the same, but the jersey was otherwise white? 

I've already admitted that I used to view these situations the same as you, and to some small extent, I still do..

But I've also learned that it's not the accepted view.. On these boards, most would describe auburn's helmet as having a 5-stripe pattern (B/W/O/W/B), even if it's just two blues and an orange (i don't know for sure, but I'd imagine it's a 1-piece decal with clear stripes in between).. Also, in a lot of official manufacturer literature, the same basic pattern might be called "3-color, 5-stripe", as I've seen numerous times.. Or perhaps the pattern itself is named something like "columbus" (nike's name for the Ohio State pattern), where you can choose to assign colors as you choose - including background color, or not.. But it doesn't change the fact that you're using a pre-determined, 5-stripe pattern..

So, like I'm sure you would as well, I'd generally describe Alabama's pants as white pants with 2  somewhat thin crimson stripes.. It conveys the concept pretty clearly, and is easy to picture in your mind.. However, even though I view those pants as described above, I would still describe the striping pattern specifically as "Crimson/White/Crimson" if the specific topic ever came up.. For accuracy and clarity, of course..

[Carolingian Steamroller]

In terms of nomenclature: 

 

My own head canon is that if series of 5 color bands really constitute a complete unit then I call 5-stripes. However, if the essential elements are just the 3 non-jersey colors, then I'd call it 3-stripes. 

 

So the original Boston Bruins used a 5-stripe design because the gold-black-white-black-gold pattern formed a distinct block regardless of whether it appears on the white or black jersey:

 

However, the current Boston Bruins use a 3-stripe design because the stripes are not cohesive. They switch sequencing from the black to the white jersey. 

 

 

[Carolingian Steamroller]

Somewhat oddly I consider the Chicago Bears to always wear 3 stripes on their jersey. The home jerseys just have three orange stripes that happen to have white outlines. 

 

Weird I know but this is how it works in my head.

[seasaltvanilla]

Universal Maxim: Jersey ads are cancer.

[WavePunter]

5 minutes ago, Carolingian Steamroller said:

Somewhat oddly I consider the Chicago Bears to always wear 3 stripes on their jersey. The home jerseys just have three orange stripes that happen to have white outlines. 

 

Weird I know but this is how it works in my head.

It's not weird at all.. I've always viewed it that way as well.. But if that exact same pattern were on the white jersey, how would we view it (same situation as the Steelers really)?.. 

One thing that I use to determine how I actually view it, is to imagine the easiest way to verbally describe it to a sales rep for a manufacturing company.. For the bears' home jerseys, I think "3 evenly-spaced orange stripes, each with thin white outlines" is probably the clearest way to describe it.. But for their away jerseys, I think "5 stripes of equal width, in a Navy/White/Orange/White/Navy pattern" would be the most efficient way to verbalize it..

Typically, if all the stripes are the same color, and they're only separated by the background color, it's easier to only count those colored stripes and ignore the background colored spaces.. When multiple colors are involved, that's when I start viewing everything as a stripe..

Also, if it's a really thin space, used just for definition (like the Packers home jerseys), I consider them "stems" rather than stripes, but when they're not background colored (bears home jerseys), I consider them outlines (or really thin stripes)..