kimball

Failed Franchise Expansion & Relocations

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4 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Wait, isn’t that the Dallas Mavericks/Charlotte Bobcats’ font (with modifications)?

 

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0icn2sxk3ai2gmfeig44nne0c.png

 

If so, I doubt its authenticity.

 

Not sure of the accuracy of this site but...https://www.trademarkia.com/company-indianapolis-arrows-inc-599005-page-1-2

 

logo-73522639.jpgarrows-73522405.jpg

 

these do exist, as well as that shirt showing up on ebay, which doesn't mean anything at all but it's still interesting
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Indianapolis-Arrows-vtg-80s-would-be-MLB-baseball-team-t-shirt-size-S-ULTRA-RARE-/332454501262

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On 5/9/2018 at 4:21 PM, SFGiants58 said:

If so, I doubt its authenticity.

The logo's legit.  I remember it from when they had their moment of almost-fame.

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5 hours ago, NicDB said:


I don't know what you're trying to prove, but I didn't overlook anything. I came across the WVTV clip a few weeks ago over something totally unrelated  and remembered it when I saw this thread.

But LOL @ that Minneapolis sportscaster claiming Milwaukee stole the Seattle Pilots.

What I am saying is this.  I have spent the last 24 hours talking to some who would likely have been involved in relocation talks on the Tampa side and nobody recalls anything. 

I mean, heck, they even touted two of their fellow NFC Central cities at the time w/o the NBA.  The Tampa Tribune only ran a wire story of the Bucks being up for sale and no follow ups regarding Tampa as a possible landing spot. 

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I will have to find the article but the Kansas City Kings were rumored to move to Minnesota or Dallas in the late 70s. Also after a year or so in Cincinnati the Royals were almost sold and moved back to Rochester, but the league squashed that idea.

 

 

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For anyone who missed the saga, the NHL staved off the relocation of the Coyotes to Hamilton, Winnipeg, Winnipeg again, Quebec City, and Seattle in a four-year span:

 

1) Jim Balsillie was ready to buy the Coyotes out of bankruptcy and move them to Hamilton, perhaps in time for the 2009-10 season, which led to a long and messy court case about the legality of buying sports teams out of bankruptcy to circumvent league approval of new ownership, which a Hamilton-based team never would have gotten due to opposition from Buffalo and Boston.

 

2) TNSE was all set up to buy the Coyotes in the spring of 2010 and move them back to Winnipeg until Glendale came through with an "arena management fee" that would pay the NHL $25 million to keep the Coyotes in town for 2010-11. They had the press conference stage set up and everything.

 

3) The same thing happened all over again a year later, except this time Atlanta Spirit Group announced it wouldn't schedule Thrashers games at Philips Arena anymore, which effectively forced their relocation given the lack of any other Atlanta facility, so TNSE bought them instead, which only seven years later may have worked out.

 

4) In 2012, Quebec City's exposition authority approved updates to the old Colisee that would get the rink and media facilities up to NHL standards, just as the MTS Centre did a year before in anticipation of closing on the Thrashers, and the city/province financed a new arena that would meet and exceed those standards. Years later we would find out that Gary Bettman personally told an interested ownership group (Kevin O'Leary among others) that the Coyotes couldn't be moved to Quebec City.

 

5) In 2013, Glendale had to approve the Ice Arizona dopes and their subsidies to keep the team, which they did after a hilarious city council meeting. But had they not been approved, the team would have been sold to Connecticut hedge fund bankers and relocated to Seattle. The moving trucks were ready and everything.

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It baffles me how much Bettman will piss on the league's credibility to keep the Coyotes in Arizona. I support hockey in non-traditional climates, and even I can see how much of a mistake this team is. Fits in with the rest of the state of Arizona, really.

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I guess Paul Allen at one point was interested in buying the Yotes on the cheap and relocating them to Portland but he'd rather go hunting for sunken ships instead. 

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I think that was all the way back around 2001, when there was some uncertainty as to whether they'd get a new arena anywhere.

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Add the Philadelphia Phillies among the teams that were approached about moving to New York to replace the Giants/Dodgers after 1957.  I knew there were at least three NL teams that'd been approached.

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6 minutes ago, Mac the Knife said:

Add the Philadelphia Phillies among the teams that were approached about moving to New York to replace the Giants/Dodgers after 1957.  I knew there were at least three NL teams that'd been approached.

 

Cincinnati Reds were one ... not sure on the third? Pirates? 

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Yep.  Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh.

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5 hours ago, Mac the Knife said:

Yep.  Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh.

Funny...all of these cities had cookie cutter stadiums built in the early 70s.

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1 hour ago, jmac11281 said:

Funny...all of these cities had cookie cutter stadiums built in the early 70s.

 

Also funny because the Phillies had just taken sole custody of what was then the 3rd biggest sports market in the country.  

 

It's one of those alternate timeline things - had Connie Mac been a better businessman, would there still be 2 Phila teams, and if so, would one even be the Phillies?  If the market eroded, it's pretty safe to say that the Phillies woudl have been the odd-man out, so they'd have been ripe for the pickin' for some other city.

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15 hours ago, Wings said:

I guess Paul Allen at one point was interested in buying the Yotes on the cheap and relocating them to Portland but he'd rather go hunting for sunken ships instead. 

 

It’s more that the NHL is determined to keep them in Arizona no matter how disastrous that is.  As if they think Bettman’s legacy depends on it. 

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Find someone who loves you as much as Bettman loves the Coyotes in Arizona. 

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If the Coyotes won the Cup this year instead of Vegas, how is the league better?

 

It can't be as simple as Bettman doesn't understand sunk costs.

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I think their biggest fear, a reasonable one, was that if the Coyotes demanded a publicly financed arena or else they'd leave, got it, and left anyway after only four-and-a-half seasons of its use, no one would ever get another free arena. Then there's the matter of powerful people (MLSE, Jacobs, Molson, Ilitch) being very opposed to how a Hamilton or Quebec City team would affect their own interests. If the NHL hadn't gotten the last Glendale subsidy in 2013, having appeased David Thomson, outlasted Jim Balsillie, and wasted Quebec's time and money, I think they would have been more than happy to be rid of Phoenix and into Seattle. The rich people either would have gotten their way in the end or failed upward. Lucky them.

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I'm curious to this day what the NHL's problem with Jim Balsille (sp?) was.  They were, for some reason, bound and determined to keep him out of the ownership club when, in all likelihood, he'd have alleviated the league of a major headache in at least one less than optimal market.

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