Mac the Knife Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 To be clear, what you're about to read is not some anti-homosexual screed I'm about to espouse. I have gay friends both closeted and out, and I'd bet $1,000 that my 14 year old daughter is, for whatever reason, hiding in a closet metaphorically speaking, despite both her mother and I openly supporting things such as marriage equality, anti-discrimination laws based on gender or sexual orientation, and other causes championed by the LGBTQIAEIEIO community (I've honestly lost track of this acronym to the point of it having lost its meaning; forgive me about seeming flip about it, but it's in large part because I try to treat everyone equally and thus, don't care about self-identification). BUT... I think the WNBA has since its outset, and particularly in more recent years, hurt its overall public marketability in large part because it's perceived as the Lesbian Basketball League. Granted I suspect the overall audience for women's basketball is limited regardless of the marketing prowess of its promoters, but strictly from that perspective it wouldn't surprise me if their attendance would rise by as much as 1,000 - 1,500 per game if they were to somehow shed that label (e.g., letting the more masculine looking, tatted up players take their talents to Europe). I honestly believe the WNBA could put a lower quality basketball product on the floor, and with proper marketing draw more fans featuring players that offer more broad-base appeal. I'm neither suggesting eye candy nor that players should go back into the closet if their orientation would do so in the past. But at least women who don't give an appearance as though they could and would readily kick your ass in the middle of a street under the wrong set of circumstances. Less "butch," I guess. I'm not saying that as a behavioral or appearance judgment of anyone, but strictly from a marketing perspective, the WNBA brand could be marketed a whole lot better than it is now, at least in part due to that perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wizza Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac the Knife Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I don't dispute its source; that's why it's a perception. I've no empirical data to support it, of course. But when you take into account the initial public recognition the league received and the appearance and public perception of the original generation of its stars, versus the publicity it has received in recent years (I recall a domestic violence case involving two of their players, one of whom was either an MVP or at least an MVP caliber player, the other another player and her significant other) and the appearance of today's players? It's not a hard conclusion to draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilSox Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Women's volleyball players tend to display more marketable femininity but I wouldn't exactly say they're better off than the WNBA. Even college volleyball is just filler on their conference's cable sports networks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Yeah, i think the problem with the NBA is more "we have virtually zero interest in women's team sports" than it is "the WNBA is full of lesbians," The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I was in 5th grade when the WNBA either started or was getting ready to start and I think the view among us was "oh, that would be kind of cool" and "does that mean the Chicago Bulls would have the Chicago Cows?" The marketing seemed to be very kid-friendly, or at least have a major kid-friendly aspect to it, so I'm guessing the original plan was to market to young girls who liked playing basketball at recess and their family members. I don't think it was until a few years later that it was like "oh, this is all for dykes." ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_ThenNowForever Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I remember when Spike Lee wore a Liberty jersey and that seemed like a big deal. I don't go to Storm games. It has nothing to do with lesbians or the players looking butch or whatever (wtf?) and far more to do with that I just don't like watching the games. I've tried. It doesn't stick. Plus their season overlaps with the Mariners and Sounders, and it's more fun to be outside in the summer. 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 13 hours ago, NicDB said: Women's volleyball players tend to display more marketable femininity but I wouldn't exactly say they're better off than the WNBA. Even college volleyball is just filler on their conference's cable sports networks. is this a PC term for "nice asses"? "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilSox Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said: is this a PC term for "nice asses"? I was TRYING not to go there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I like both basketball and women’s mma (which has a lot of lesbians too, but maybe not as much as the WNBA), but never really followed the WNBA or had any desire to. Maybe that’s because during the summer I have other things to do though. I probably know more players’ names than the average sports fan though because I do pay somewhat of attention during women’s march madness , and would certainly give the product more of a shot if I live in a city with a team I could go and watch. Idk, I’m assuming the tickets are pretty cheap, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Women's soccer surpassed women's basketball as the sport we can all agree on because the best all-around women athletes in America get funneled into playing soccer rather than basketball, football, or baseball, so the USWNT kicks all sorts of ass on a world stage and isn't just a clunkier facsimile of men's sports. It hasn't taken off at the club level and probably won't, but it's something. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Cesarano Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 The women's sport that I enjoy watching is softball. The D1 college competition is remarkable, as is the attendance at the games shown on television. It's a great spectacle played by dedicated athletes. And the TV coverage is of a very high calibre, with generally excellent announcers giving the personal histories of the important players. (For some reason I have something like five or six Pac 12 channels on my cable system even though I live in New York; so on those channels alone I can see many games.) Unfortunately, the great players from those schools have nowhere to play professionally in the U.S., as the pro league NPF is teetering. One of the many things that I will never understand about Americans is why the popularity of a sport at the college level doesn't automatically translate into support for a professional league. The reasonable thing would be to want to see the great players continue to play. But, absurdly, it doesn't work like that in many sports. This same weird dynamic plagues men's lacrosse, as the college game is still bigger than the pro league MLL (which Wikipedia insists on calling "semi-professional"; I've tried to have the fight over this with the iditots who edit that page, to no avail). Even the now-mighty NFL didn't emerge from the shadow of college football until the 1960s; the 1958 league championship game at Yankee Stadium is considered to be the turning point of NFL's establishment in the mainstream consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_tattoos Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Women's tennis is a big deal. What has tennis done right with it's women's division that other sports have failed at doing? Women's tennis has marketable stars, draws TV viewers & puts butts in seats of the events. Other sports (with an exception to UFC's women's division) not so much. What's the deal? For the record, I'd personally love for women's volleyball to become a bigger deal. Hotter Than July > Thriller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac the Knife Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, 4_tattoos said: Women's tennis is a big deal. Sorry, but it isn't. It really isn't. At least not on the American sports landscape. On an overall global stage, perhaps, but tennis has been on at best a popularity plateau for a generation now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 35 minutes ago, 4_tattoos said: Women's tennis is a big deal. What has tennis done right with it's women's division that other sports have failed at doing? Maintained a greater emphasis on serve-and-volley while the men's game devolved into power-baseline artlessness. Of course, the two greatest players of their respective divisions, Roger Federer and Serena Williams, are the exceptions, with Federer doing things no human is supposed to do at speeds no human brain is supposed to process while Serena just brute-forces her way past everyone else. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_ThenNowForever Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I'm not sure exactly where to put her, but I'd say Serena Williams is probably among the most popular women in the United States. Maybe top 5? She's a huge deal. Definitely among an audience that doesn't exist on this website. 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 58 minutes ago, 4_tattoos said: Women's tennis is a big deal. What has tennis done right with it's women's division that other sports have failed at doing? Women's tennis has marketable stars, draws TV viewers & puts butts in seats of the events. Other sports (with an exception to UFC's women's division) not so much. What's the deal? For the record, I'd personally love for women's volleyball to become a bigger deal. I think the WNBA needs a generational talent (or at least one that is in position to look like one) that is also marketable to come around. Tennis has Serena (and maybe King before her? I'm no tennis historian), while WMMA was put onto the map with Ronda's reign where she looked absolutely unbeatable. I remember Candice Parker being pushed really hard as the Female Kobe years back, but I'm assuming that never panned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 47 minutes ago, the admiral said: Maintained a greater emphasis on serve-and-volley while the men's game devolved into power-baseline artlessness. This is the reason I enjoy women's tennis and volleyball better than the men's game. And, if we're being honest, there's other reasons to enjoy volleyball as well; I didn't care about the "legends" football league, though. There needs to be a reason that the women's game is better than the men's. Do those reasons exist for basketball and hockey? Other than "sisters doin' it for themselves"? Otherwise, it becomes another minor league, and those are small-time affairs, at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_tattoos Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 15 minutes ago, Cosmic said: This is the reason I enjoy women's tennis and volleyball better than the men's game. I honestly thought volleyball was a sport exclusive to women/girls until the 2000 Olympics. That was the first time I'd ever seen dudes playing outside of casually at the beach. I was 14 years old at the time of the 2000 Olympics and somehow managed not to see any photos/video footage of men's volleyball until that point. Weird right? Hotter Than July > Thriller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 4:30 PM, the admiral said: When exactly did roller derby become the province of lesbians who outgrew the Renaissance Faire? Am I the only person who saw the Ellen Page/Drew Barrymore roller derby movie? It was predictable, but I remember liking it. The answer to your question is probably a few years before that movie. 3 hours ago, DG_Now said: I remember when Spike Lee wore a Liberty jersey and that seemed like a big deal. I don't go to Storm games. It has nothing to do with lesbians or the players looking butch or whatever (wtf?) and far more to do with that I just don't like watching the games. I've tried. It doesn't stick. Plus their season overlaps with the Mariners and Sounders, and it's more fun to be outside in the summer. I went to one Storm game because I was working the BECU sponsored pride night. It was fun and entertaining for a couple hours, but I remember feeling like it was slow and small. I don’t think they’ll ever be able to make that not true. Not compared to their male counterparts. also the storm blew a 20 point lead to Maya Moore so that was kinda cool. 2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said: The women's sport that I enjoy watching is softball. The D1 college competition is remarkable, as is the attendance at the games shown on television. It's a great spectacle played by dedicated athletes. And the TV coverage is of a very high calibre, with generally excellent announcers giving the personal histories of the important players. (For some reason I have something like five or six Pac 12 channels on my cable system even though I live in New York; so on those channels alone I can see many games.) Same. I’ll watch a random game on espn now and then. I watched most of the national championship series and it was gripping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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