SFGiants58

MLB: The Defunct Saga - Tampa Bay Cannons (former Rangers) and Tarpons/Twins Variants Added

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I think you nailed perfection on this one with the black pinstripes.  Even though it's a ficticious club, everything about it somehow screams New York baseball.

That said, I can't wait for the Upper Midwest portion of this chapter. :)

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Will we see a Minneapolis Giants jersey with the Twins colors perhaps?

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40 minutes ago, Dalcowboyfan92 said:

Will we see a Minneapolis Giants jersey with the Twins colors perhaps?

I doubt it. The Twins only have the color scheme they have because the Washington Senators did. Red white and blue aren't Minnesota-y colors

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5 hours ago, Dalcowboyfan92 said:

Will we see a Minneapolis Giants jersey with the Twins colors perhaps?

 

4 hours ago, FightingGoldenDevil said:

I doubt it. The Twins only have the color scheme they have because the Washington Senators did. Red white and blue aren't Minnesota-y colors


Also, this is what the Minneapolis Millers looked like.  They were a Giants farm club.  The only thing of the Twins I could see them still using had the Giants moved there instead is the "TC" mark.

36_6789_large_1fefa424-225c-4420-a297-68

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The Twins in Giants colors could be cool. "Giants" doesn't really fit Minnesota in any way unless you do lake Superior, in which case the name "Superiors" would be a better name

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Where does a name like "Giants" really fit in?  It's still the same franchise that got the name by having an unusual amount of tall players in the 19th century.  And unlike the Senators, the Giants were a "glamour" franchise.  I don't see any realistic scenario in which they got rid of the name. Especially not if the Dodgers kept their name after leaving Brooklyn.

The only scenario in which I could even reach for if that were to happen is if the league dictated they be named after a city.  Since this would entail them looking entirely like the Minneapolis Millers, the only way in which to make St. Paul feel like it was their team as well would be to rename them the Minneapolis Saints.

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On 6/30/2018 at 9:27 AM, coco1997 said:

The Gothams look equally fantastic in blue and orange.

 

Looking forward to the Minneapolis Giants next! 

On 6/30/2018 at 2:03 PM, JH42XCC said:

Impressive work on the "What If?" New York Baseball Giants. Also, great job with the New York Gothams concepts, especially the one with the Mets colors.

On 6/30/2018 at 8:57 PM, NicDB said:

I think you nailed perfection on this one with the black pinstripes.  Even though it's a ficticious club, everything about it somehow screams New York baseball.

That said, I can't wait for the Upper Midwest portion of this chapter. :)

 

Thanks, guys! I really liked making the Gothams.

 

On 7/1/2018 at 10:53 AM, Dalcowboyfan92 said:

Will we see a Minneapolis Giants jersey with the Twins colors perhaps?

On 7/1/2018 at 11:36 AM, FightingGoldenDevil said:

I doubt it. The Twins only have the color scheme they have because the Washington Senators did. Red white and blue aren't Minnesota-y colors

On 7/1/2018 at 4:03 PM, NicDB said:

Also, this is what the Minneapolis Millers looked like.  They were a Giants farm club.  The only thing of the Twins I could see them still using had the Giants moved there instead is the "TC" mark.

On 7/2/2018 at 12:32 PM, FightingGoldenDevil said:

The Twins in Giants colors could be cool. "Giants" doesn't really fit Minnesota in any way unless you do lake Superior, in which case the name "Superiors" would be a better name

On 7/2/2018 at 1:42 PM, NicDB said:

Where does a name like "Giants" really fit in?  It's still the same franchise that got the name by having an unusual amount of tall players in the 19th century.  And unlike the Senators, the Giants were a "glamour" franchise.  I don't see any realistic scenario in which they got rid of the name. Especially not if the Dodgers kept their name after leaving Brooklyn.

The only scenario in which I could even reach for if that were to happen is if the league dictated they be named after a city.  Since this would entail them looking entirely like the Minneapolis Millers, the only way in which to make St. Paul feel like it was their team as well would be to rename them the Minneapolis Saints.

 

Let's just say that I found a creative way to work "Giants" into the Minnesota setting. While I do believe the Jim Mutrie story for the team's origin (and the tall players one for making it stick), I reasoned that New York's growing skyline would be a "renewed" definition of the team name. I try to work in the team name through flimsy means, like here:

 

New York: skyscrapers

San Francisco: bridges (hence the lettering on an arc)

Spoiler

Minnesota: Paul Bunyan as Willie McCovey

Toronto: Large Canadian metropole

San Jose: no idea at this point, but I'm thinking about the nearby mountains over the valley

Tampa Bay: the bay (a "glamour" franchise might have swindled taxpayers for a new stadium by now)

 

If the Giants were to change their name upon moving, Minneapolis Saints would be a good option (pre-empting state names). Twin Cities/Minnesota Voyageurs, Trappers, or Elks would also work.

 

Anyway, it's time to head to North Star State!

 

MINNEAPOLIS/TWIN CITIES/MINNESOTA GIANTS - Stretch-ing the Bunyan Legend

 

It's no secret that the Giants almost moved to Minnesota, where they had territorial rights and had planned to expand the Minneapolis Millers' home stadium (newly-opened Metropolitan Stadium in Bloomington) for the major-league club.1 Had it not been for Walter O'Malley's SF-LA proposal and a drumming up of local support in San Francisco for luring a team, Horace Stoneham would have stupidly killed the best rivalry in Big Four sports by moving to the Twin Cities area.2 However, let's suppose Stoneham did relocate to Minnesota. How would the team's identity evolve?

 

PHASE ONE - Pining for the 'polis

 

When deciding on how to brand the team, let's assume that the team didn't take into account the unique nature of the Minneapolis/St. Paul market (semi-rivalry). After all, the Giants had the rights to Minneapolis, not St. Paul (as this period article emphasizes Minneapolis as the target, not the state of Minnesota). So, let's assume that the team adopted the name "Minneapolis Giants." Aside from adopting the Millers' road script and an "M" on their caps, the identity does not change all that much. It isn't until the 1980s and early 2000s that the team redesigns their primary logo to better reflect their name. But what's particularly "Giant" about Minnesota?

 

MNAKEbunyan_ks11.jpg

 

The answer to the previous question is obviously Paul Bunyan, the legendary lumberjack. A bat-swinging Paul Bunyan, pictured in front of trees, would be the centerpiece logo (much like Minnie and Paul for the Twins). I wanted to base him on the image of a particularly "giant" member of the team. While Willie Mays was a leading candidate (given his success with the Minneapolis Millers), I didn't find that he was tall enough (insert underrated Monty Python sketch here). However, there was a guy who was tall enough to take on role of Bunyan. Willie "Stretch" McCovey, the 6'4" (1.93 meter) tall Hall of Fame first baseman, was the perfect choice. His career also lined up with the move pretty well (debuts in 1959), which would have given him as important a role in the franchise as he had in San Francisco (McCovey Corner at Target Field and a chair at the Mall of America?). I based my rendering of Paul Bunyan on McCovey's batting pose. He's got a plaid pattern on his shirt and dark skin (I didn't want to whitewash the rendering that much - I'm happy to change it if people here don't like it). 

 

The other logos include the "M" cap logo (again, modified Ocean Beach font) and a roundel with the plaid Northwestern Stripe pattern.

 

glmd6xP.png

 

The uniforms are fairly similar to my New York designs, albeit with a new road wordmark in the Ocean Beach font. The primary logo is on the sleeve of both jerseys. I changed the numbers to a "block with serifs" design (to match my Twins concept) and added Northwestern stripes to the socks with a subtle plaid pattern in the center stripe to further the lumberjack theme. 

 

wJA1riM.png

 

The alternates include an orange top with the tertiary roundel for home use. This cap also has an orange bill, as I'm sure the team would have experimented with it during the late-'70s/early '80s. The black alternate features the cap logo on the placket, a look worn by the Millers throughout their history. The plaid Northwestern Stripe appears on the sleeve.

 

2JA6O5Q.png

 

The first additional alternate is a pairing of the orange-billed cap with the home uniform. The second alt is a recreation of the Minneapolis Millers' late-'40s/early-'50s uniforms, made famous by Willie Mays' 35 crazy games for the team (hitting .477/.524/.799 with eight home runs and eight doubles, while also walking 14 times). It's a way to tie the club into the history of Minneapolis baseball (side note: that's why I chose 28 for the uniforms).

 

Hp4p4FA.png

 

The dugout jacket features a modified version of the Twins' road script and the tertiary on the back.

 

bO3DRaQ.png

 

While this concept goes against a foundational part of my baseball fandom, I still think it looks pretty good! The next two phases will be up soon!

 

Robert F. Garratt, Home Team: The Turbulent History of the San Francisco Giants (Lincoln: U of Nebraska Press, 2017), 9-10.

Ibid, 11-18.

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When I first saw this, all I could think was "Duh, why didn't I think of Paul Bunyan?" Then I remembered that I'm from Bunyan's real home state of Wisconsin, and that Minnesotans only lie about him being from there. ? 

 

Either way, that logo is a thing of beauty!

 

My only nitpick is would they risk alienating St. Paul fans by doubling down on the Giants as a Millers successor?

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Posted (edited)

TWIN CITIES GIANTS

PHASE TWO - Twinning!

 

Let's go back to Horace Stoneham planning the move to Minneapolis. One of the Minneapolis locals (say, a high-ranking employee of the Millers) notes that there is an inherent rivalry between Minneapolis and St. Paul (mentioned in the previous post). He then suggests that naming the team after only one of the cities could alienate fans, as the Minneapolis Lakers found out. Said local also points out that the stadium is in Bloomington, a suburb of Minneapolis, which would render the name a little inaccurate. So, Stoneham and his buddies come up with a compromise: use the "Twin Cities" identifier for the team. 

 

The logos are pretty similar in style to the Minneapolis variant. The primary logo features the team wordmark behind two renderings of Willie McCovey, with the one on the right coming from the later years of his career. Trees are behind the figures, while the city insignias (based off of the Millers and Saints' cap logos) flank each side of the river-with-bridge from the Twins' old sleeve emblem. The "TC" appears in the Ocean Beach Major font as the secondary (with negative space to imply interlocking), while the tertiary combines all of the insignias into a roundel.

 

gIrrZ9q.png

 

The uniforms are much the same as the previous concept, albeit with the "TC" on the cap and a "Twin Cities" wordmark on the road jersey.

 

eJMVyMI.png

 

The alts take their cues from the previous concept, except with the black alt using a "M | | Stp" chest design (like the 1905 Giants with their "NY"). The tertiary is on the black uniform's sleeve.

 

Prru6SO.png

 

The heritage alternates cater to both Minneapolis and St. Paul with homages to their historic American Association teams. The Saints' design is an homage to their mid-'30s  design, which featured a black/orange color scheme and Tuscan-style lettering. I didn't want to do the blue with scripts, as the Saints were a Dodgers affiliate at the time. Even with the rivalry dead in this timeline (my biggest complaint), I still don't want that combination. The tertiary is on the sleeve of both uniforms.

 

13hjjl0.png

 

The main dugout jacket features the primary logo on the back, the cap logo on the sleeve, and a "Twin Cities" script from my Twins alternate take. The throwback has tan sleeves, the double insignias on the front, and a team wordmark on the back.

 

f407wy9.png 0LtXPng.png

 

This option is probably my favorite option, as it combines a bit of the Twins with the Giants' identity while refraining from a state name. It sounds less redundant than "Twin Cities Twins" as well.

 

Up next, let's go to state!

Edited by SFGiants58
Added a bit.

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I love love love it. A black Paul bunyun is kind weird but I love how it makes it tie into the local area. Black, Orange and a baby blue trim could work with a Babe tertiary logo. This is already one of my favorite series

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Posted (edited)

MINNESOTA GIANTS

PHASE THREE - North Star State Style

 

Let's go back to our hypothetical scenario of Stoneham deciding against the Minneapolis city name. Instead of going all-in on the "Twin Cities" name, Stoneham sets his sights a bit higher. He looks at a blown-up print of Milwaukee County Stadium and its sprawling parking lot, remembers the Bloomington location of the stadium (suburb), and has an idea. Why not chose the state name as an identifier? It would attract fans from both of the Twin Cities, their suburbs, and from other areas of the state. The team would still use the "TC" as their cap logo, to signify where they play in the state and to avoid people in St. Paul complaining about the team looking like the Millers.

 

The logos have a stronger Twins influence, what with the outline from their secondary logo/old primary. "Stretch" Bunyan is at the center of the design, with a baseball bearing the wordmark behind him and a star over the location of the Twin Cities (roughly). I fixed the Minnesota outline to better reflect state borders - with a comparison (thanks @scottyeagle).The tertiary features the "M" "TC" "Stp" insignia design, paired with the scenery of the "Twin Cities" primary. 

 

S3cqV6g.png

 

The new crest is on the sleeves of the home and road uniforms, with the road jersey gaining a "Minnesota" script.

 

VWpLWrl.png

 

While the black alternate is a direct port of the Twin Cities variant, the orange top gains the late '70s-early '80s jersey script (which had been part of the team's identity since the 1940s). I figured it'd be a fauxback to a similar design from the club's past (just no orange sanitaries, please - modeled by this doofus).

 

zpFpeip.png

 

The orange-billed cap returns to the home uniform for an alternate, while the New York (baseball) Giants' 1933 design returns as a throwback. I figured that without as much of a civic focus, the team should bill itself partly on its New York history (with a Carl Hubbell statue, please - for his time as a player and talent director in the 1950s-60s). 

 

2OCwFTV.png

 

The dugout jacket features the script from my Twins concept, flanked primary and cap logos, and the new tertiary on the back.

 

pxjwrs9.png

 

While I loathe the idea of losing the best rivalry in Big Four sports and my favorite team, the Giants wouldn't have looked bad in Minnesota. Maybe they'd have developed a stronger rivalry with the Cubs and Braves, perhaps even keeping the Braves in Milwaukee. Still, it was a fun experiment.

 

tenor.gif?itemid=9412011

 

C+C is appreciated, as always! Here are the  original  images, before  the update.

 

Up next, the other half of the historic rivalry!

Edited by SFGiants58
Adjusted Minnesota state outline

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When would the McCovey logo have been established as the Giants' logo? Strong craftsmanship aside, a black Paul Bunyan doesn't seem like it would go over well in the '50s or '60s.

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That Minnesota Giants concept is exactly how I'd imagine them looking in real life.  Great job!

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This is all amazing. The black Paul Bunyan logo, across the three iterations of the relocated Giants, is my my favorite element. I also love the subtle flannel on the black alternate's sleeves and the Minneapolis roundel.

 

Very much looking forward to the Dodgers next!

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Wow, this is a lot to take in! Each primary logo is phenomenal. Overall each set is fantastic, though I think each one gets better and better, with the Minnesota version being my favorite. I love the Giants-style “TC” logo, and the Paul Bunyan/Willie McCovey inspiration. I wasn’t sure how I felt about the Northwestern stripes at first, but when I zoomed in and saw the plaid pattern I was sold. It looks great on the black alt as well. The Saints alt is really cool as well.

 

Overall, I love it. It’s nice to see so much attention paid to a Minnesota team! Wonderful work!

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What about when the giants almost moved to Tampa? 

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22 hours ago, woody86 said:

What about when the giants almost moved to Tampa? 

 

It looks like that's coming later in the series. If you look at his first post in the thread, you'll see it's second to last. 

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On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 12:08 AM, SFGiants58 said:

T

Thanks! That's a bit of what I was going for here. I even thought about designing a "Mr. Gotham" to go with the design, but I ruled it out.

 

Anyway, here's a little rejigging of the outlining/keylining (thanks @MJD7 and @NicDB).

 

tBuwj34.png

 

s867SIK.png

 

u9EIqVp.png

 

NjBL3uI.png

 

NEW YORK GOTHAMS, PART II-B - Metropolitan Madness

 

My original plan was to use royal/blue, for an exceptionally Mets-like identity (which had precedent for the baseball Giants). Here is the concept in that proposed color scheme.

 

m4AWlxC.png

 

m3LvUnH.png

 

6aj4ndj.png

 

5hJQltW.png

 

I've also done two versions based around the Mets' template (pinstripes at home, placket on road). This can also be my "What if the Mets chose the other old nickname of the Giants?" concept.

 

on8fdg8.png

 

D5wnrfe.png

 

Finally, here's my Giants' "New York" wordmark on my Mets concept. Why I love the Tuscan on an arc, the modified arched Giants/Pirates font looks fantastic.

 

AhZucwB.png

 

C+C is appreciated, as always! The Giants of Minneapolis, Minnesota (part of the Twin Cities) will be up soon!

 

 

The blue Gothams set looks better to me than the black.

 

Thanks for this thread.

 

Those Twin city Giants are some big bunyans

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Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2018 at 8:24 PM, NicDB said:

When I first saw this, all I could think was "Duh, why didn't I think of Paul Bunyan?" Then I remembered that I'm from Bunyan's real home state of Wisconsin, and that Minnesotans only lie about him being from there. ? 

 

Either way, that logo is a thing of beauty!

 

My only nitpick is would they risk alienating St. Paul fans by doubling down on the Giants as a Millers successor?

 

Thanks! One of the big inspirations for the branding was your suggestion in this thread:

 

On 6/19/2018 at 4:06 PM, NicDB said:

As part of the alt history project I'm working on, I toyed with having the New York Giants moving to Minnesota and rebranding as the Minneapolis Saints.

Ultimately, I decided on Twin Cities Giants because of the logo possibilities (Twin Giants!) and because I began to doubt a "glamour" franchise such as the Giants would ever jettison their history in Manhattan.

 

It gave me the push I needed to go all-in on Paul Bunyan. Thanks for that! I had no idea about Bunyan's Wisconsin origins, so thanks for that tip as well. 

 

On 7/3/2018 at 10:14 PM, FightingGoldenDevil said:

I love love love it. A black Paul bunyun is kind weird but I love how it makes it tie into the local area. Black, Orange and a baby blue trim could work with a Babe tertiary logo. This is already one of my favorite series

 

Thanks! I went back and forth on having a Babe logo, but I decided that team worked best without even a trace of blue. Maybe it's my own biases (Dodgers rivalry), but I didn't think it was a good fit.

 

On 7/3/2018 at 10:54 PM, the admiral said:

When would the McCovey logo have been established as the Giants' logo? Strong craftsmanship aside, a black Paul Bunyan doesn't seem like it would go over well in the '50s or '60s.

 

Thank you. I figured that it would have been a late-1980s/early-1990s design, created to give the team a bit more of an identity tied to the name, mostly to replace the bland "ball with wordmark" stuff. My reasoning was that the team chose McCovey because of his stature on the team and his height, while preserving the dark skin color as a means of "diversifying" their look (the Giants were the fourth team to integrate, after all). Race lifting Paul Bunyan at that point shouldn't have been much of a problem (say he's Bunyan-inspired).

 

On 7/4/2018 at 12:48 AM, NicDB said:

That Minnesota Giants concept is exactly how I'd imagine them looking in real life.  Great job!

On 7/4/2018 at 7:26 AM, coco1997 said:

This is all amazing. The black Paul Bunyan logo, across the three iterations of the relocated Giants, is my my favorite element. I also love the subtle flannel on the black alternate's sleeves and the Minneapolis roundel.

 

Very much looking forward to the Dodgers next!

On 7/4/2018 at 10:40 AM, MJD7 said:

Wow, this is a lot to take in! Each primary logo is phenomenal. Overall each set is fantastic, though I think each one gets better and better, with the Minnesota version being my favorite. I love the Giants-style “TC” logo, and the Paul Bunyan/Willie McCovey inspiration. I wasn’t sure how I felt about the Northwestern stripes at first, but when I zoomed in and saw the plaid pattern I was sold. It looks great on the black alt as well. The Saints alt is really cool as well.

 

Overall, I love it. It’s nice to see so much attention paid to a Minnesota team! Wonderful work!

On 7/4/2018 at 3:49 PM, Cardsblues02 said:

The final one you posten (Minnesota Giants) is by far the best. Love everything about this. 

 

Thanks, guys! The Minnesota variant is probably my favorite logo package of the bunch. I really wanted to use the flannel pattern on a team at some point. This team was the perfect opportunity to employ such a pattern.

 

Anyway, it's Brooklyn time!

 

BROOKLYN DODGERS, PT. 1 - Dem Bums are back!

 

Out of all of the defunct teams, the Brooklyn Dodgers are easily the one most gushed over by the baseball media and pop culture as a whole. How could they not, with such legendary figures as Jackie Robinson, Pee Wee Reese, Duke Snider, Roy Campanella, Wilbert Robinson, and Leo Durocher?  However, the team still left Brooklyn for oft-repeated reasons of:

 

1. Ebbets Field was in a state of disrepair and could not handle high-capacity crowds in nearly the same way that Yankee Stadium or Milwaukee County Stadium could. Parking was also a problem, which one can trace to a mixture of "White Flight" to the suburbs, the expansion of American highways, and a growing emphasis on car transportation over public options.1

 

2. Walter O'Malley wanted to build a new stadium in Brooklyn, yet this man (Robert Moses):

AP_640422058.jpg

...didn't want them to build upon the Flatbush site in Brooklyn, instead leading them towards the future Shea Stadium (right near Moses' Long Island Expressway). 2 After surveying Chavez Ravine and working out a deal with Stoneham's Giants to move together, the Dodgers pulled one of these (Son Goku is the Dodgers, Chi-Chi is the city of Brooklyn, and the schoolboard members are the New York City Fathers):

 

GlisteningSaltyAyeaye.gif

 

But let's assume that the Flatbush stadium worked out (unlikely), preferably without the dome. What would the modern Dodgers look like if they had stayed in place?

 

I doubt the team would look all that different from their current identity, adopting many of the same traits (primary logo, plain road uniforms, etc.). The primary logo is off of my Los Angeles Dodgers concept, while the "B" is an extract from Todd Radom's famed Brooklyn Cyclones logo. I thought it was the perfect modernization of the classic Brooklyn "B." The tertiary adapts my Dodgers tertiary for the Brooklyn squad.

 

10yKkeR.png

 

The home and road uniforms feature a new "Brooklyn" script meant to better emulate the nickname script. The road uniforms lose their striping and gain red front numbers, much like what happened to the Dodgers' road set in the 1960s (the teams of that period would have immortalized the look, moreso that the striped design). Also, big thanks to @Gothamite for the consult on the "Brooklyn" script.

 

hLhLLFh.png

 

The road alternates homage different eras of the team's history. The first one is a replica of the Brooklyn Robins' 1931 road uniform, to homage the pre-script period. The second alt is a recreation of the 1946-57 road uniform, to get the striping  into the mix. I added the tertiary to the sleeve, for a little incorporation with the main set.

 

ezmSC8a.png

 

The dugout jackets bear a strong similarity to my LA Dodgers concept, with one for the primaries and another for the road alts.

 

fVUHXmG.png IHQbwZZ.png

 

All in all, the Dodgers would have a classic look no matter where they settled. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Andrew Goldblatt, The Giants and the Dodgers: Four Cities, Two Teams, One Rivalry (Jefferson, NC: McFarland, 2013), 135-36.

Ibid, 137-41.

 

Up next, the bird is the word!

Edited by SFGiants58
Added a bit.

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