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I would put the chances of “Rockers” happening at less than zero. The oldest professional sports team in the city isn’t going to take on the nickname of a now-defunct WNBA franchise that used to play next door.

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2 minutes ago, CitizenTino said:

I would put the chances of “Rockers” happening at less than zero. The oldest professional sports team in the city isn’t going to take on the nickname of a now-defunct WNBA franchise that used to play next door.

Also, uh:

john-rocker.jpg?w=420&h=316&crop=1

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2 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

None of that had happened in this tread yet.  You're the one bringing all that up now.

 

Fair enough. I'm just generalizing how these kind of threads always end up on the internet. And, I don't mind be disproved (as this thread is going currently I'm optimistic). 

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I'll echo what everyone else kind of stated about a rename ... Spiders, Blues or Broncos. Something that connects the team with past Cleveland baseball teams would be ideal. However, I'd keep the same colors and look conservative, no funny business. 

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Bout time they removed it. Make a feather "I" the primary logo if they are keeping the "Indians" name. Or look at the concept board for a refresh. 

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They've been the Cleveland Indians for over a century and will continue to be the Cleveland Indians, let it go.

 

I have no problem with Wahoo being off the road uniforms, and no problem with the block-letter Cleveland, but I still don't understand why they switch from being a red-dominant team to a navy-dominant team. Head to toe, there should be one distribution of colors: navy crowns, red insignia and bills, red script, red undershirts, navy piping/outlines, red names and numbers, navy socks, red shoes. 

 

Let me throw this out: just as the Indians and Yankees use a shade of navy blue that's darker than other teams' navy blue (midnight blue, I guess it'd be), why not a darker shade of red than the standard red as well? Not maroon, but more like a "blood red," you could call it: like a 0-100-67 in your HSB model. Having two darker shades in the usual red-white-blue palette might help them stand out a little bit with what's about to be some very no-nonsense uniforms.

EDIT: for example

MOtvurS.jpg

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1 hour ago, kimball said:

I'll echo what everyone else kind of stated about a rename ... Spiders, Blues or Broncos. Something that connects the team with past Cleveland baseball teams would be ideal. However, I'd keep the same colors and look conservative, no funny business. 

 

I used to feel this way as well, but I'm starting to learn more towards wanting a fresh start.

 

I would want new colors, new wordmarks, everything. Just a fresh start from scratch as if it were an expansion team. I don't have anything particular in mind. Others can debate name, logo and uniforms concepts, but I think anything less than a full break from the Indians history is going to keep that conversation lingering around which has already gone on for far too long.

 

I would certainly want to keep honoring the legacy of the Cleveland Indians. I don't believe in whitewashing history which why I feel like Chief Wahoo belongs in a museum. But that's the only place he should be in.

 

The reason I don't let the Indians ownership off the hook for this is that I know the only reason they're getting rid of Chief Wahoo is that Major League Baseball has a gun to their head over it. If left completely up to them, they wouldn't have changed a thing, which is why I have no doubt they will continue to go with the Indian name and identity going forward which is just as much as part of the problem as Chief Wahoo in my opinion.

 

The stubbornness on the part of the Indians ownership on this issue is something I will never understand and by keeping the Indians name they are still stringing this conversation along rather than just ending it, which they could do tomorrow.

 

To be clear I wouldn't have an issue with the team going to the Blues or Spiders and keeping the colors, font, etc. The main point is to get rid of the Indian name. Only when the name changes will I consider the issue put to rest. Anything short of that to me is nothing more than an attempt to sugarcoat an issue that should have been put to rest decades ago.

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I've floated this opinion before on the boards, but I'll do it again anyway -- the '48 Indians are both the club's most recent World Series winner and featured the best look and balance the team's ever had. Take the old Wahoo off the sleeves and this would instantly be one of the better sets in baseball, IMO:

 

al_1948_cleveland.gif

 

I still lament that the Tribe went away from the wishbone C hat logo in the '70s, because it's the best hat they've had, but now there's no way they'd ever be able to get it "back" from the Reds. I'd love to see them try a hybrid of the Reds' and Cubs' "C" logos to try something unique.

 

But to me, this is the perfect color balance for an Indians jersey and shows how much stronger the road jersey would be with a red bill. But I don't really like the block "C" for this purpose, which is a little tricky.

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Now, pivoting to moderator hat, I'd like to remind the community of one of our rules:

 

Quote

 


4. No Discussion of Native American Team Name Controversies

This topic, like various political topics, often devolves into name calling, straw man construction, and other assorted "tactics" not suitable in intelligent, mutually respectable debate.

 

 

I think we've done well so far in this thread, but in the interest of forum policy, I think we should strive to avoid discussing two things:

  • Whether or not removing Chief Wahoo as a team logo is appropriate
  • Whether or not the Indians should take a new nickname

 

Both those items are covered under the blanket ban the boards have, but I think this can be a good place for discussion around:

  • What the Indians should do to their identity after Chief Wahoo is removed
  • If the Indians were to change their name, what would a good alternate identity be?

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18 minutes ago, crashcarson15 said:

I've floated this opinion before on the boards, but I'll do it again anyway -- the '48 Indians are both the club's most recent World Series winner and featured the best look and balance the team's ever had. Take the old Wahoo off the sleeves and this would instantly be one of the better sets in baseball, IMO:

 

al_1948_cleveland.gif

 

I still lament that the Tribe went away from the wishbone C hat logo in the '70s, because it's the best hat they've had, but now there's no way they'd ever be able to get it "back" from the Reds. I'd love to see them try a hybrid of the Reds' and Cubs' "C" logos to try something unique.

 

But to me, this is the perfect color balance for an Indians jersey and shows how much stronger the road jersey would be with a red bill. But I don't really like the block "C" for this purpose, which is a little tricky.

 

They need some kind of logo on the sleeve, but I'm struggling to think of one that would pass all the current tests.  The issue with not changing their name is that they're doomed to be essentially logoless / mascotless forever.  I definitely wouldn't want them building their image around some other unrelated creature, like how Syracuse used a literal orange for Orangemen, and how my alma mater adopted a bear to be their mascot while still using the name Indians.

 

If they did change the name, I think Spiders is the only good choice I've heard.  You can do a lot with Rockers, but it seems too minor-league to me for some reason.  Spiders is totally unique in major sports, has a ton of great logo options, can be played-up all over the park (have a spider web thing that can "catch" home runs), and can make for fun (albeit scary) mascots for the kids.

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34 minutes ago, crashcarson15 said:

I've floated this opinion before on the boards, but I'll do it again anyway -- the '48 Indians are both the club's most recent World Series winner and featured the best look and balance the team's ever had. Take the old Wahoo off the sleeves and this would instantly be one of the better sets in baseball, IMO:

 

al_1948_cleveland.gif

 

I still lament that the Tribe went away from the wishbone C hat logo in the '70s, because it's the best hat they've had, but now there's no way they'd ever be able to get it "back" from the Reds. I'd love to see them try a hybrid of the Reds' and Cubs' "C" logos to try something unique.

 

But to me, this is the perfect color balance for an Indians jersey and shows how much stronger the road jersey would be with a red bill. But I don't really like the block "C" for this purpose, which is a little tricky.

 

I like the blue socks with red stripes a lot, certainly a lot more than one pair of red socks and one pair of blue. I think the red block C would be perfectly fine if it had a white outline, though. Not sure about blue undershirts, because I really like the blue jersey over red undershirts for the Tribe, and so do they because they wear it a lot. It'd help if we could get the Red Sox to go back to navy blue undershirts.

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For the ones that want them to change the actual team name, would putting CLEVELAND on both home and road jerseys be an acceptable compromise?  I know it's not good enough if you're in that camp, but considering the likelihood of a full change is slim, maybe doing something like what the Texas Texases do would be ok.

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I hear that they're not worried about a sleeve logo for next season as they will be wearing the All Star Game patch all year. Look for something new for the sleeve in 2020.

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12 hours ago, Derek said:

SPIDERS!!!

The worst team in MLB history should not be brought back.

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I still don't get it why they can't send Wahoo to plastic surgeon and fund him a face lifting to being a less offensive? Wahoo=Cleveland Indians, you can't erase that from history.

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7 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

The worst team in MLB history should not be brought back.

 

The circumstances surrounding that historically bad season were a bit extraordinary, though. You can’t really hold it against the players when their owners intentionally set them up to fail and they played over 70% of their games on the road.

 

1 hour ago, pepis21 said:

I still don't get it why they can't send Wahoo to plastic surgeon and fund him a face lifting for being a less offensive? Wahoo=Cleveland Indians,  you can't erase that from history.

 

I don’t think anyone wants it erased from history. They just don’t want it defining the future.

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19 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

They need some kind of logo on the sleeve, but I'm struggling to think of one that would pass all the current tests.  The issue with not changing their name is that they're doomed to be essentially logoless / mascotless forever.

 

They don’t have to be logo-less. Surely they can come up with a logo that leans on the iconography of Cleveland itself.  Like the St. Louis Browns did.

 

browns-logo-2.gif

 

There are always local symbols that could be leveraged.  The semi-pro soccer club Cleveland SC has the right idea, using the Hope Memorial Bridge statues, although the execution is lackluster. 

 

8_71TyuR_400x400.jpg

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On 9/7/2018 at 7:37 AM, SFGiants58 said:

 

Yeah, but when combined with the block C, it looks so bland and uninspired. I’d call it the worst road uniform in the majors. Cleveland doesn’t have the historical clout to pull it off. Besides, it doesn’t fit with their historical color balance (navy and red co-dominance, with a bit more red than the Red Sox):

 

al_1948_cleveland.gif

 

A cleaned-up version of the cursive “Cleveland” script (like the 1948 home script), or even a red with navy outline block “Cleveland” would go a long way to improving the look.

 

To each their own. I think it’s one of the very best road looks in the league precisely because of its no-frills/all-business demeanor.

 

The block C the team is using dates to their original uniforms from the turn of the century, and they didn’t regularly incorporate red until the mid-1930s, so I think they do have the precedent to pull off a simplistic, historical, blue-dominant look with the pieces they’re using. They’ve changed and evolved so much over the years that, in my opinion, they can’t really be locked into a specific color hierarchy like some teams can. Heck, the uniform you posted there had blue letters with red trim (like they wear now) for several seasons before it had red letters with blue trim.

 

I’d actually prefer they not use red as their main color if they’re going to continue to be called the Indians. It rubs me the wrong way and it’s not essential to their identity that they be a red-dominant team the way it might be for Boston or St. Louis. As a fan and an enthusiast of the team’s history, Cleveland teams with an equal or dominant red presence will always be associated with Chief Wahoo to me since the color shift and the introduction of the mascot happened around the same time, so I’m fine leaving that for the history books.

 

Of course, if I had my way, I’d change that blue to black and let them be the only true black and red team in baseball. Then I’d start incorporating spider imagery and ultimately make people forget they had any attachment to such a common, antiquated name like Indians in the first place. ?

 

Latrodectus_hesperus_F_Theridiidae-56a72

 

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