2019 NCAA Football Offseason Thread (formerly Targeting Thread)

[pianoknight]

Suggestion from @dfwabel to update thread to cover general NCAAF offseason news beyond Targeting. 

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There's a proposal to update targeting, which modifies the current targeting penalty to a 2-tiered system:

 

• Targeting 1 would carry a 15yd penalty, and is not malicious.
• Targeting 2 is for malicious hits, and carries immediate ejection, plus the 15yd penalty.Insert other media

 

Article also mentions that players who get multiple T2 penalties in a season could face stiffer penalties, which presumably means suspensions or getting benched for multiple games.

https://collegefootball.ap.org/huskermax/article/coach-group-wants-ejection-ruled-out-some-targeting-hits

[pianoknight]

I personally think it's a good update.  There are many situations where the defender is already mid-tackle and the ball carrier just happens to twist or turn into an awkward position.  But there was no malicious intent by the defender.  

 

My only concern is allowing referees to judge "intent," so hopefully there will be some accompanying definitions of how to assess the situation.  Like a defender launching off their feet, ball carrier is already down by contact, running out of bounds, etc. 

[MJWalker45]

1 minute ago, pianoknight said:

There's a proposal to update targeting, which modifies the current targeting penalty to a 2-tiered system:

 

• Targeting 1 would carry a 15yd penalty, and is not malicious.
• Targeting 2 is for malicious hits, and carries immediate ejection, plus the 15yd penalty.Insert other media

 

Article also mentions that players who get multiple T2 penalties in a season could face stiffer penalties, which presumably means suspensions or getting benched for multiple games.

https://collegefootball.ap.org/huskermax/article/coach-group-wants-ejection-ruled-out-some-targeting-hits

I would be good with this but then what determines malicious? I'd say maybe 10-20% of last year's calls should fall under that but I'm just guessing. 

[pianoknight]

14 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

I would be good with this but then what determines malicious? I'd say maybe 10-20% of last year's calls should fall under that but I'm just guessing. 

 

I've posted this elsewhere, but think that the only fair way to do this is that referees have to assume Targeting 2 unless it's obviously Targeting 1.  That has sort of a guilty-until-innocent vibe to it, but that's basically the current state of targeting calls anyway.

 

• If it's awkward and hard to call, T2 and ejection.  Just like 2018 and prior.
• If it's a case where the defender was already moving into position and the ball carrier suddenly ducked or put his helmet first, than reduce it to T1.  

[dfwabel]

This is a proposal form the coaches, who had their convention this week in San Antonio, but if it was discussed there, the Rules Committee will take the issue up.

Football Rules Committee

 

 

 

[pianoknight]

Good point to bring up @dfwabel.  It sounds like the idea has support of pretty much all coaches. 

[BBTV]

By definition, doesn't "targeting" have to be intentional?

 

These types of rules - at either the college or pro level - are really handled poorly.  There's too much on-the-spot judgement, and the calls can impact games and careers.

 

My proposed solution:

 

Only call the absolute most egregious hits - the ones that anyone would say was dirty.  If in doubt, let it go.

• either have the replay official buzz down if an unpenalized hit was deemed dirty, and the ref then ejects the player, or
• don't worry about ejections for single offenses, but increase the overall penalty and have the player get suspended for a game or more during the week.

If they want to throw flags on everything, then they need to be reviewable.  There's too much at stake to get it wrong.

[dfwabel]

34 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

By definition, doesn't "targeting" have to be intentional?

 

These types of rules - at either the college or pro level - are really handled poorly.  There's too much on-the-spot judgement, and the calls can impact games and careers.

 

My proposed solution:

 

Only call the absolute most egregious hits - the ones that anyone would say was dirty.  If in doubt, let it go.

• either have the replay official buzz down if an unpenalized hit was deemed dirty, and the ref then ejects the player, or
• don't worry about ejections for single offenses, but increase the overall penalty and have the player get suspended for a game or more during the week.

If they want to throw flags on everything, then they need to be reviewable.  There's too much at stake to get it wrong.

2

Here is the current rule explained by SI.com.

 

Quote

 

Targeting and Making Forcible Contact With the Crown of the Helmet (Rule 9-1-3)

• No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown of his helmet. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting. When in question, it is a foul.

Targeting and Making Forcible Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player (Rule 9-1-4)

• No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting. When in question, it is a foul.

 

As for a Defenseless Player, here is how it is defined:

Quote

• a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
• a receiver attempting to catch a forward pass or in position to receive a backward pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
• a kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the return.
• a kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick, or one who has completed a catch or recovery and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
• a player on the ground.
• a player obviously out of the play.
• a player who receives a blind-side block.
• a ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress has been stopped.
• a quarterback any time after a change of possession.
• a ball carrier who has obviously given himself up and is sliding feet-first.

1

 

[MJWalker45]

On 1/11/2019 at 6:53 PM, BringBackTheVet said:

By definition, doesn't "targeting" have to be intentional?

 

These types of rules - at either the college or pro level - are really handled poorly.  There's too much on-the-spot judgement, and the calls can impact games and careers.

 

My proposed solution:

 

Only call the absolute most egregious hits - the ones that anyone would say was dirty.  If in doubt, let it go.

• either have the replay official buzz down if an unpenalized hit was deemed dirty, and the ref then ejects the player, or
• don't worry about ejections for single offenses, but increase the overall penalty and have the player get suspended for a game or more during the week.

If they want to throw flags on everything, then they need to be reviewable.  There's too much at stake to get it wrong.

Denzel Ward got tossed after using his shoulder to knock down a player, the rules aren't clear enough.

[dfwabel]

7 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

Denzel Ward got tossed after using his shoulder to knock down a player, the rules aren't clear enough.

BBTV really isn't a college football watcher, and although Ward is now a Rookie in CLE he is likely to possess no clue who Denzel Ward is.

You should've linked the play in question.

 

[BBTV]

In full speed, it looks like he tried to take his head off.

[MJWalker45]

8 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

In full speed, it looks like he tried to take his head off.

When slowed down you can see he uses the shoulder but he still got tossed.

 

[pianoknight]

Thread update to cover general NCAAF offseason news. 

[See Red]

Urban Meyer nearing a deal to be an analyst on FOX. This is awfully similar to how he left Florida and ended up at Ohio State.

 

I have little doubt he will be coaching USC in 2020. 

[dfwabel]

Thank you to pianoknight to edit the thread's theme.

 

247 Sports has all the transfers and their new schools.

 

Alabama, Michigan, and Ohio State made major staff changes in the last two weeks too.  Other schools have made changes as well.

[dfwabel]

12 minutes ago, See Red said:

Urban Meyer nearing a deal to be an analyst on FOX. This is awfully similar to how he left Florida and ended up at Ohio State.

 

I have little doubt he will be coaching USC in 2020. 

Urban told his wife three schools were most important to him, but USC was not one.

 

Brian Kelly could leave Notre Dame and he'd take the job.  The third job was Michigan. 

 

USC is still very insular.  Hiring Pete Caroll was the biggest reach in school history.

[MJWalker45]

On 1/13/2019 at 7:08 PM, dfwabel said:

BBTV really isn't a college football watcher, and although Ward is now a Rookie in CLE he is likely to possess no clue who Denzel Ward is.

You should've linked the play in question.

 

This shows the play slowed down as well. Sorry it took me so long to reply. 

[pianoknight]

Alabama has to be thinking about a Saban succession plan. It's not like he's getting pushed out of a job, but nobody lives forever, either. 

 

Gonna be tough to find someone who can keep things humming along at that level. 

[dfwabel]

38 minutes ago, pianoknight said:

Alabama has to be thinking about a Saban succession plan. It's not like he's getting pushed out of a jo,but nobody lives forever, either. 

 

Gonna be tough to find someone who can keep things humming along at that level. 

The initial plan is to just throw a bunch of money at Dabo in hopes he wants to return to his alma mater.  The backup plan is to hire an executive search firm to negotiate with Jimmy Sexton and/or Trace Armstrong but know that their client could be fired after going 9-3 in his first two seasons. 

[See Red]

Yikes, Florida State. There was probably so many chances to realize this was a bad idea.