Ebbets Field Flannels

[Gothamite]

Got the new Ebbets Field Flannels catalogue in the mail yesterday, and along with it a surprise - they're no longer part of Stall and Dean.

Seems the original owners have bought back the company (they sold to S&D in 2001). Once they did, the quality went rapidly downhill. Less authentics, more "fashion" items. Cheaper caps, fewer choices.

In recent years, EFF stopped even making caps, farming them out to the lower-quality Cooperstown Cap Company. Now, they're back.

I think this is a fantastic development. In a letter on the inside front cover, the co-founder/president admits that selling was a mistake, apologizes for the decline in merchandise and customer support quality, and pledges to rebuild the brand to its once-lofty heights.

I've been burned by poor S&D merchandise, and wrote off EFF. I have high hopes that they can become once again the company I gave so much money in the 1990s.

Check 'em out at www.ebbets.com. These days, we have to support any manufacturer who values historical accuracy over fashion "inspired by"s.

[tmorss9]

Actually, their NHL jerseys (before the S&D buyout) were ATROCIOUS. I sent a letter to Gerry Cohen, who was at that time the president, and he left me a scathing voicemail about how i didnt know what I was talking about, even to the extent of swearing a couple of times. I didn't sat anything bad really critical, just pointed out a few inaccuracies (on EVERY sweater).. not like when he said in "The Show" magazine in 1990 in reference to the Blue Jays uniforms "the designer of these eyesores needs to be shot."

Needless to say, I've had no trouble not buying Ebbets Field merchandise.

[bulldogbarks55]

Interseting development on EFF. I know what you mean about Mr. Cohen. He could be, well, arrogant. My favorite IL teams, the Red Wings and the old Maple Leafs were jerseys that were complete abortions. The Wings used chain embroidery that had a navy outline around the red, and EFF's font was completely wrong. They used swiss embroidery. His numbers also sucked as well. He used off-the-shelf numbers from Stahls that were completely wrong.

I sent him detailed close-up photos of an actual Red Wing shirt from the '50s proving that I was correct. He basically blew me off. How dare I, who only worked for the company that actually sold the Red Wings their uniforms during the '50s and '60s, question the almighty Jerry Cohen. And to top it off he claimed Boog Powell wore #32 for the Wings. Boog actually wore #29. I saw him play for Rochester.

And Jackie Robinson wore #20 for Montreal, not #9. That number was from the movie.

His hockey jerseys all had slit sides at the waist. What's up with that?

No I wish them well with this second go-around. But take some advice. Get off your I-know-more-than-you-do high horse and listen to people's input. There's an awful lot of very knowledgable people right on this board. We'd be glad to help. Just ask.

Remember, if you're going to sell "authentics", make 'em right or don't bother.

[RickV]

Excellent news. I first found out about EFF in the mid 80's during a vacation trip to Seattle. Accidentally ran into their original shop while sight seeing. Was very disappointed to hear of the buyout by S&D and now overjoyed that they are back independent once again. Hope they fully expand their inventory once again that was so dramatically shrunk with the S&D takeover.

[tmorss9]

I think EFF bought Stall and Dean's name or something like that.. Either way, bulldog and I had the same experience with Cohen.

[gosioux76]

Thanks for the news. I just requested a catalog.

[TruColor]

They've actually been sending me a few emails and just sent me a whole marketing package through the mail - just got it yesterday.

In fact, the person who sent the stuff to me remarked how the founder - Jerry Cohen - and I would seem to have a lot in common (!)...

(Shaddup!)

[teenchy]

This is good news, I hope. I got their catalog yesterday and it looks promising.

I visited the EFF/S&D store in Seattle twice - first in June 1997 and then in June of last year. Two entirely different worlds it seemed and yes, more attitude in '04. I can't hold myself out as a logo design expert but as a baseball historian I'd be more than happy to help out. I did so for Peter Capolino @ M&N in the early '90s before they got big and went hip-hop.

I bought a lot of EFF stuff back in the day: '50 Lookouts cap and jersey, '55 Rainiers and Jersey City Giants caps, Rainiers (Sicks Stadium and the "pouty R"), Crackers, Mtl. Royals and the old EFF logo tees. The tees I've been hanging onto well past their prime just because I knew I'd never be able to replace them.

One thing I will say about the old EFF caps: They ran small and I could never get the "painted" leather sweatbands broken in enough to be comfortable. I have two Cooperstown Ball Cap Co. caps which IMO are well put together, comfortable and accurate compared to authentic originals of the same teams/years as mine.

Here's hoping EFF will expand the lineup.

[ebbets]

Hello - Jerry Cohen here - founder of Ebbets Field Flannels. Since I saw my name being bandied about, I thought maybe I would get my two cents in. First, it's great to have EFF back and returned to its original mission, and I thank the many people who have e-mailed me to express their pleasure with this development, and the folks here who have said kind things about us...I would like to answer a couple of criticisms I saw from these posts. It kind of stung be called arrogant ("moi?!"). "Scathing"? (Certainly not!) And I can't recall EVER swearing at someone on the phone, as was claimed on this site. I will say this: What we do is far more difficult than what Mitchell & Ness and others have done. There simply is no central archive anywhere of obscure sports team (Negro League, minor league, etc.) logos, colors and roster numbers. Each item EFF made had to be researched individually. Mistakes are invariably made (and for God sakes, is there no statute of limitations on historic jersey errors? The Jackie Robinson Montreal Royals number error was corrected years ago!) We do the very best we can, and when we are wrong we endeavor to correct ourselves. The ONE thing that did grate on us occassionally was all the "experts" who never purchased anything, but as soon as they received our latest catalog would call us and pounce on whatever minor inaccuracies were in it. After all the research and expense that went into producing our products and catalogs, that was a little frustrating...By the way, we are making great authentic vintage hats again. We only stopped because none of the manufacturers wanted to make a higher quality vintage hat in the small quantities we require (after all, we can only sell so many Xalapa Chileros Mexican League hats). Anyway, it's great to be back - a little humbler after the Stall & Dean experience - and I would welcome feedback or suggestions from any of you. E-mail me at jcohen@ebbets.com

[tmorss9]

Jerry, First of all, in the email you sent me, you apolgized, and I thank you for being a stand-up guy enough to do that. Apology accepted. Peerhaps the things I've posted we're a bit rough, but in my eyes, they are the truth. To be honest, that was 10 years ago, and I wouldn't expect to hear you say that you remember it.... As far as the phone message, it did happen. As sure as I'm sitting here, it happened. I had a houseful of witnesses. To be honest with you, one of them remembers you mentioning something about "Reinventing the wheel" in regards to the NHL sweaters. My only problem is that your company prides itself on authenticity, but on a red Doug Harvey Canadiens sweater, there is a red and blue #2, in the same font used now by the Minnesota Twins. If you look at a picture of Harvey's sweater from the late '50s' to '61, you will notice that the digit looks nothing like the digit on Brad Radke's jersey, which is the one that the EFF used. So, if you look at it, you have the wrong font on the number, and in the wrong colour. Not exactly great research work on that one. And for the record, there were quite a few problems with your sweaters. I will grant you that as time went on, some of them got better, but there were still so many flaws that most of us "experts" simply didnt want to part with that kind of cash for something that we knew didn't look right. I won't get into problems with the baseball jerseys, as I simply don't know, or really care to know about minor league baseball, but please don't say that its difficult to research a sweater from the Montreal Canadiens or Toronto Maple Leafs (another one that didn't really look like it should have). They are possibly the most photographed and collected teams in the world. If you do bad research on those, then you've got real problems with your research staff.

If you'd like to chat about this further, my email address is tmorss18@yahoo.com. I look forward to hearing from you.

[Gothamite]

Hi Jerry,

Since you've been good enough to come on this forum, I wonder if you wouldn't mind answering a question or two for me.

1. Are you guys still farming out ballcap production to Cooperstown Ball Cap Co.? Because frankly, your old caps run circles around theirs.

2. Can you guys still custom-make old minor league jerseys if we supply research material? What (on an average) does that run?

3. Any plans to re-introduce old jackets and jerseys that you used to carry? My 1933 Seals jerseys is getting pretty threadbare, and I'm still feeling the loss of my 1940s Brewer jacket, stolen from a coatroom five years ago.

[ebbets]

Gothamite - I am glad you asked these questions because there has been a lot of confusion and I wish to set the record straight:

1. We are NOT farming out caps to Cooperstown Ballcap Co. We are once again making EXCELLENT caps on our own. We currently offer over 20 styles and we are adding more this summer and fall. The caps are in my opinion, the best we have ever made. They do NOT have leather bands, though, as good leather finally became impossible to get (we used to be accused of using vinyl, but it was merely the finish of the leather that was avaialble at the time).

2. WE CAN MAKE ANY NON-MAJOR LEAGUE FLANNEL WE EVER MADE! Even though I said this in the new catalog, I am still getting this question a lot, so perhaps we didn't communicate it clearly enough.

3. See #2. We can still make custom flannels, and will gladly do so. We also can make MOST wool or wool/leather authentic warm-up jackets that we made in the past.

I T\thank all of you for your interest and please let us know if we can be of service.

Jerry Cohen, EFF Inc.

[Gothamite]

Thanks for the feedback, Jerry. Guess I missed your bit in the catalogue.

I tried to have my jacket custom ordered after it was stolen, but there was a 6-item minimum. Does that still hold?

Sorry to hear about the lack of leather bands, but even discounting them your caps were 100x better than the cheap garbage that CBC makes.

I'm going to be ordering an old Brewers jersey from you guys soon, once I finish gathering my source material....

Hey, final thought - since you guys make a 1949 Brooklyn Bushwicks cap without any problem (although it looks a lot like a certain classic Boston cap):

howsabout making a 1947 Brewers cap?

1947 Brewers team picture

It's a beautiful cap, is a legitimate minor league historical cap and bears a distinct resemblance to a very high-selling cap that's not currently produced in an historically-accurate form. I'm telling you man, you could clean up.

[ebbets]

Give us a call on the jacket. I think we could do it...That's a great Brewers hat, and I will consider it for our Holiday catalog (or you could find 23 friends and I'll make it now!) You are right about the Bushwicks cap, except that it's orange where the Boston Braves is red.

Jerry...EFF Inc.

[Guest robpas]

Jerry, are you doing any hockey jerseys? I'm dying to get an old Western Hockey League Los Angeles Blades or San Francisco Seals jersey, in a durene like material...

[gameface]

Jerry, are you doing any hockey jerseys? I'm dying to get an old  Western Hockey League Los Angeles Blades or San Francisco Seals jersey, in a durene like material...

I'm not Jerry, I'm not even from Seattle. However...

My wife and I took the kids down to Safeco for the Mariners-Mets game on Father's Day (which also was my wife's birthday). In any case, I make a point of going into the store whenever I'm there and this was no different.

I was wearing a Vancouver Millionaires t-shirt and the two gents behind the counter commented on it and one mentioned that they had even made Millionaires jerseys in the past. I was aware of it. Sadly, I just missed actually being able to buy one and they don't make them anymore. That's neither here nor there, although I would still love to get one.

The man behind the till whom I spoke with on my last trip down told me that they were exploring the possibility of doing some Western League Canucks since they're already doing the Shamrocks and Totems. It seems to me they've done a Buckeroos at some point in the past too. I asked it they'd be the white, blue and red with CANUCKS arched across the front and the number underneath. He confirmed that was the one they were thinking about. I assume that if they're thinking Canucks, they're probably thinking of the others.

I guess to bottom line it is they're certainly thinking about it.

[Guest robpas]

Gameface, cool news!!

[ebbets]

Hockey Fans: Vintage hockey sweaters present different difficulties than baseball shirts for technical reasons. Knitters require minimum quantities of hundreds of units per style (team). Also, all the machines that were able to stripe in durene in the 50s and 60s are gone. I find sewn-on stripes to be a poor substitute, so I won't make hockey shirts from that era that way. Using mesh or doubleknit polyester is out of the question, though there are others who do so (if you don't mind a crappy, inauthentic fabric, and you're just after the logo, there are several folks who'll make you a hockey jersey that way). I would LOVE to make all the cool Western Hockey league jerseys of the past (as well as other minor league hockey) but we are a bit stuck right now due to the quantity minimums and other technical issues. We hope to work these out eventually. Even our sources for wool blend vintage sweaters have dried up. So, sadly hockey is on the back burner for Ebbets Field for now, unless we make do with some T-shirts or utility jerseys...Jerry, EFF Inc.

[Gothamite]

Hey Jerry,

What do guys have on the back burner for football? I imagine that you won't be seeking the NFL license again, but want you to know that the 1930s sweatshirt and 1960s "GB" cap are among my two favorite Packers items ever (I bought about a dozen of the sweatshirts and gave them out as gifts to all my Packer friends).

Also, if you're not using leather sweatbands? What are you using? Cotton? If so, please tell me it's not white. Those start to look filthy the first time you wear them outside. Matching the cap body color would be a better way to go than white.

Thanks again for coming here and fielding questions.

[ebbets]

EFF will be doing Continental Football League stuff from the 60s, as well as some early non-NFL pro teams. I consider the NFL's licensing operation one level above doing business with the Mob (sorry to insult La Cosa Nostra), so Reebok can have it. Some day I'll write my book and include all my stories of dealing with those clowns.

Caps now are cotton sweatbands. Yes, white. Sorry. By the way, we never "farmed out" our caps to Cooperstown Ballcap Co., although we did offer them in our catalog a couple of times concurrent with ours. Quality and sizing inconsistencies forced us to discontinue carrying them.

Also coming this Fall: A line of Federal League shirts and caps.