Ramblings on american sport

[Saintsfan]

1. Baseball has to be the most intense sport to watch ever. That moment you have been waiting could happen on every pitch, but seldom ever happens.

2. Until the last few minutes, Basketball can be pretty dull, in the last few minutes basketball can truly kick ass as the greatest sport for excitement in the world.

3. Not that I would say it to there faces, but Football (gridiron that is) players are wimps. Rugby players play a similarly physical game with hardly any padding at all.

4. Americans care for the history of there sports far more than anyone else in the world.

5. The college system ensures that most of your sportsman at least arrive at the top level of sport with some kind of education. This doesn't happen in Britain, were by and large soccer players in particular arrive as uneducated little kids.

6. John Madden is one of the best commentators in the world. He can make telling observations, but you always sense that he isn't taking everything too seriously like some sports broadcasters can.

7. Its odd that Football doesn't have a truly storied and historic franchise like the other US sports do. I guess the Cowboys come fairly close, but they don't match upto the Lakers, Celtics or Yankees for instance. I guess its partly because the Superbowl has only been around for a relativley short while.

8. Salary capping is a weird thing. In business loving, free market hugging America, the salary cap is a god send to sports, keeping them competetive and giving smaller clubs at least a chance. In "socialist", lets give everyone a helping hand Europe, a salary cap would be illegal, as a 'restraint of trade' and in virtuallly every sport, the rich rise to the top. I kind of envy you on this point!

and just a thought, in every UK sports store I have been into recently the basketball shirts on sale are: Old style Tracy McGrady Magic shirt, Kobe Lakers shirt, Sprewell Knicks jersey, and Jordan Wizards shirt. Do you guys send us the shirts no-one wants anymore?

[Mac the Knife]

Its funny Saints - most Americans think baseball is our most boring 'major' sport, but you're absolutely right.  Every pitch could bring something amazing...

My personal take is that basketball is dull, period, but I can see your point here.  The last few minutes of a game is the only part I'll even watch on TV...

I've always found the comparison between American football and somewhat similar sports (rugby, aussie rules, etc.) to be fascinating.  The helmets, padding, etc. I think is somewhat excessive, and may actually in some cases enhance injuries rather than prevent them.  How often do you hear about an Aussie rules footballer being paralyzed?  Or a rugby player with broken vertebrae?

You're right about Americans caring about our sports history.  Unfortunately, we've seem to embraced that at the expense of our national history...

You're incorrect regarding 'the college system' though.  It is far closer, particularly in the cases of basketball and football, of a four-year (in most cases, less) training ground for the pros.

The kids coming out of American colleges more often than not are uneducated and unintelligent, and totally unprepared for life should their professional dreams not materialize.  

Can you envision what Shaquille O'Neal would be doing with his life had he blown out his knee during his last year in college?  A local sports program showed an example - a kid who was supposed to be basketball's 'next big thing' had some injury during his last year of college.  What's he doing now?  Asking people through a drive-thru if they want fries with their order.  Why?  Because despite the fact that the college graduated him, he could barely speak comprehensible English.  But man, what a hook shot. [reprehensible]

I can't speak to Madden, as I honestly don't watch Monday Night Football very often anymore, and didn't watch him on Fox when he was teamed up with Pat Summerall, who should've retired 5 years ago...

Football does have a storied, historic franchise.  Several of them, actually:  the Bears, Giants, Steelers, Lions, Eagles.  I'd say the Packers come closest to the Yankees, winning what?  11 NFL titles?  The Yanks go out of their way to promote their storied history; the NFL goes out of its way to promote their game.  Neither is right or wrong, but the NFL didn't start with the Super Bowl...

And a salary cap is necessary precisely because we're the business loving, free market-hugging, win at all costs Americans we are.

Note I said "win at all costs."  If owners were left unchecked in the NFL, for example, Dallas, Washington and Los Angeles (well, whoever moved there) the odds-on favorite to win the Super Bowl nearly every year.  They have revenue streams (or potential streams) the others don't, which they would undoubtedly spend on bringing in talent if left unchecked.  We have that in MLB with the Yankees now - a $180 million payroll in 2003.  Its simply insane.

We need caps in all our sports, simply to keep our owners from spending themselves into bankruptcy!

[yh]

Wow, you make a lot of interesting points and observations and I for one think it's pretty cool to have a "regular" on the board to offer perspectives from abroad.

I won't endeavor to address each point you made but I would like to comment on a few.

Regarding John Madden - there seems to be a "love him or hate him" attitude about the guy.  Put me in the former category.  This is a guy who came into broadcasting hot on the heels of a successful NFL coaching career.  Rather than transition from an animated reactionary to the buttoned-down mold of broadcasters of the time, Madden created his own genre of color commentator.  He is unique in the football broadcasting game.  When a game is getting dull or out of hand or both, his off-topic tangents usually keep the game broadcast entertaining.  He was the perfect yin to Pat Summerall's yang and is doing a good job complementing Al Michaels as well.

With respect to storied and historic franchises in American Football, I presume you are using the term as a synonym for "dynasty."  There are a number of storied and historic franchises - the Packers, Bears, Giants and Redskins can trace their roots back over 70 years and each of them have won championships along the way both before and during the Super Bowl era.  Even though they haven't won a title for 43 years, the Eagles have a long and storied history as well.  "Newer" franchises like the Browns, 49ers and Cowboys have also enjoyed lengthy tenures with multiple championships and legendary players (the latter two teams during the SB era and the Browns during the 50's and 60's).  So, I don't think there's a lack of legendary franchises, but I can't dispute the fact that football lacks its Yankees/Canadiens/Celtics-type team.  Part of the reason for this, in my opinion, is the relatively shorter careers that football players had during the sport's formative years.  Part of the reason for this was the enormous physical toll the game took on players (especially before your purported "wimp factor" spawned the use of protective gear like helmets and more substantial padding systems) and also the fact that pro football players were very poorly paid thanks to a lack of major broadcasting dollars.  Once the NFL got marketing-savvy, we were already starting to move into the free agency era and rampant player movement prevented any team from putting together more than a two-year championship run.  One additional factor to consider - for the better part of the last 50 years, a football team consisted of 22 starting players excluding special teams players.  Keeping that many players in championship form or finding suitable replacements for those who drop off is a lot more challenging than maintaining a roster of baseball, basketball or hockey players whose number of on-field players are all much lower.

As for your observations about the salary cap, I have always found this subject to be somewhat paradoxical.  Yes, clearly the goal of the salary cap is to attempt to force competitive parity.  However, when you look at the byproduct of parity in pro sports you see that it really means a chance to make more money.  If every team is competitive now and then, then arguably everyone sells more tickets now and then, gets on prime time tv now and then and in turn likely sells more team merchandise therefore increasing revenues.  So while in one way it looks socialist, in another way its pure capitalism.

Ok, that's all the time I have to engage with your observations.  They are all appreciated.

[JQK]

1. Baseball has to be the most intense sport to watch ever. That moment you have been waiting could happen on every pitch, but seldom ever happens.

2. Until the last few minutes, Basketball can be pretty dull, in the last few minutes basketball can truly kick ass as the greatest sport for excitement in the world.

3. Not that I would say it to there faces, but Football (gridiron that is) players are wimps. Rugby players play a similarly physical game with hardly any padding at all.

4. Americans care for the history of there sports far more than anyone else in the world.

5. The college system ensures that most of your sportsman at least arrive at the top level of sport with some kind of education. This doesn't happen in Britain, were by and large soccer players in particular arrive as uneducated little kids.

6. John Madden is one of the best commentators in the world. He can make telling observations, but you always sense that he isn't taking everything too seriously like some sports broadcasters can.

7. Its odd that Football doesn't have a truly storied and historic franchise like the other US sports do. I guess the Cowboys come fairly close, but they don't match upto the Lakers, Celtics or Yankees for instance. I guess its partly because the Superbowl has only been around for a relativley short while.

8. Salary capping is a weird thing. In business loving, free market hugging America, the salary cap is a god send to sports, keeping them competetive and giving smaller clubs at least a chance. In "socialist", lets give everyone a helping hand Europe, a salary cap would be illegal, as a 'restraint of trade' and in virtuallly every sport, the rich rise to the top. I kind of envy you on this point!

and just a thought, in every UK sports store I have been into recently the basketball shirts on sale are: Old style Tracy McGrady Magic shirt, Kobe Lakers shirt, Sprewell Knicks jersey, and Jordan Wizards shirt. Do you guys send us the shirts no-one wants anymore?

Baseball only gets watchable after the All-Star Break.

Agree with every point about basketball, although i am fond of the College game much more than the NBA

Rugby players are insane. That's why. (looks fun though)

We love history and tradition, despite what these modernistthink. You can't know where your going until you know where you've been. THe Stanley Cup has it's own written history directly on it. Very keen.

Have you heard a post game NBA interview? Or Baseball or NFL? These guys didn't get educations, they got free passes as long as they passed, ran, or hit.

John Madden is one great analyst. He teaches you the game without making you feel like your a moron, and yet makes great insights for the avid learned fan. A true treasure.

The Packers, Bears, and Giants are the NFL flagship franchises. the Packers are the most successful and storied of them, with NY holding a place in history as the team that truly saved the NFL in it's early years. The Super Bowl is a recent invention, you have to look back at the true NFL CHampionships to get a sense of the history and tradition of the NFL.

I don't like the revenue sharing ideas in sports, but it has bought mediocrity.. errr.. i mean "balance" to the NFL.

[Discrim]

7. Its odd that Football doesn't have a truly storied and historic franchise like the other US sports do. I guess the Cowboys come fairly close, but they don't match upto the Lakers, Celtics or Yankees for instance. I guess its partly because the Superbowl has only been around for a relativley short while.

like everybody's said, NFL has storied franchises.  Heck, they don't make it into SI but there are also storied semipro teams such as the Watertown Red & Black and Racine Raiders (okay, shameless home team plug there but it's true)...and the Ironton Tanks, a short-lived (1919-1931) town team that defeated the Bears and Giants over 70 years ago

[CrookedThumb]

7. Its odd that Football doesn't have a truly storied and historic franchise like the other US sports do. I guess the Cowboys come fairly close, but they don't match upto the Lakers, Celtics or Yankees for instance. I guess its partly because the Superbowl has only been around for a relativley short while.

Basically the Cowboys and any active team whose inaugural season was before 1960 is a storied franchise.

[jkrdevil]

6. John Madden is one of the best commentators in the world. He can make telling observations, but you always sense that he isn't taking everything too seriously like some sports broadcasters can.

He's also one of the best hockey players......

oh, wrong John Madden

And like JQK said the Stanley Cup is the coolest thing with the names, and they have already added the 2003 Devils.

[Saintsfan]

I apologise for 'forgetting' the pre superbowl history of teams like the Packers and Bears. It just seems they don't play upto it in the way baseball, basketball and hockey teams do.

Incidentally, the only sports commentator who I would put level with Madden is a cricket commentator called Richie Benaud, (pronounced Ben-o), he is australian and has the same knack of mixing insight with humor. (And he is quite sarcastic which fits my sense of humor just great!)

I'll sit down and post some more of my observations some time soon!

[yh]

7. Its odd that Football doesn't have a truly storied and historic franchise like the other US sports do. I guess the Cowboys come fairly close, but they don't match upto the Lakers, Celtics or Yankees for instance. I guess its partly because the Superbowl has only been around for a relativley short while.

Basically the Cowboys and any active team whose inaugural season was before 1960 is a storied franchise.

Except, of course, the Cardinals.

       

[CrookedThumb]

7. Its odd that Football doesn't have a truly storied and historic franchise like the other US sports do. I guess the Cowboys come fairly close, but they don't match upto the Lakers, Celtics or Yankees for instance. I guess its partly because the Superbowl has only been around for a relativley short while.

Basically the Cowboys and any active team whose inaugural season was before 1960 is a storied franchise.

Except, of course, the Cardinals.

Yes they are, ...just in a bad way.

[scottyvoodoo]

I disagree with your thoughts on football players, being a former football player. I think having the pads on almost makes it more dangerous than without, in the same way having padded gloves has made boxing worse*. With all the padding on you kind get a feeling of invulnerablility so you take extra risks (ex. lead with your helmet). While I agree rugby players are tougher than football players, I wouldn't call football players wimps.

*boxers now throw headshots without fear of breaking their hands so they do it more often than in the past

[See Red]

I have to disagree with you on the football to rugby point.  Football players need padding because they absolutely need them, what they do on a weakly basis calls for it.  Rugby doesn't involve the same kind of contact as football, the same kind of emotion neither.  I doubt anybody sits in the lockerroom and cries before a Rugby game about his fallen friend or whatever just to be ready to rip someone's head off like Ray Lewis does.

Is there really even anything in Rugby that compares to a RB taking a hand off, cutting between the tackle and guard ready to, and knowing he has to hit a Middle Linebacker head on?  And in most cases, they just lower their shoulder and take their stuff.

Rugby also doesn't have the blindside hits that the NFL does.

[-kj]

Actually, I'd say rugby has most of that.  And it's continuous--no breaks for plays.

[goalieboy82]

no no no Aussie Rules Football is tougher.

[-kj]

no no no Aussie Rules Football is tougher.

Aussie Rules... well, rules.  

It's not necessarily "tougher," as there usually aren't the gang tackles and scrums, but it's definitely a tough game.  And faster moving than either gridiron or rugby.

[Discrim]

I disagree with your thoughts on football players, being a former football player. I think having the pads on almost makes it more dangerous than without, in the same way having padded gloves has made boxing worse*. With all the padding on you kind get a feeling of invulnerablility so you take extra risks (ex. lead with your helmet). While I agree rugby players are tougher than football players, I wouldn't call football players wimps.

*boxers now throw headshots without fear of breaking their hands so they do it more often than in the past

also having played football in the past and trying to get in shape to play sometime in the next few years, i also gotta say football players ain't wimps.  i figure rugby players probably prepare for their matches as we did for our football games.  difference is whole lines can run you over and something that wouldn't be legal in rugby is in football.

all i also know is i thank rugby for birthing football...football for birthing the canadian strain, arena, sixman, sevenman, etc....i wanna start a sixman league up here someday.

[thinga87]

As another outsider, from the land Downunder, thought I might add my $0.02 plus GST:

Baseball would be much better if it went for two hours instead of 3-4. Plus the season is for too long with too many meaningless games. From where I sit losing one day mightn't mean enough when you can win the next day.

Agree with saintsfan here, Basketball comes alive in the last few minutes, but is somewhat predictable until then.

Although I understand why they wear padding etc, Gridiron is nowhere near the toughest footy code on the planet.  Rugby League, especially State-of-Origin matches would have twice as many big hits and crunching tackles with some players running fearlessly head on into the opposition line. Also as a Melbournian, Australian Football has plenty of injuries both of a 'minor' nature and things that can affect a players quality of life.

Surely the FA Cup is more historical saintsfan, even if in recent years it's been downgraded.  Our own Grand Finals here have their own century-old history, whilst Melbourne Football Club and Geelong Football Club are the oldest in the world... so us Aussies certainly know our sporting history - considering the fact where mad for sport.

Also any cricket 'tragic' can tell you some of the long history of the game at a pinch! LOL

Educated, eloquent sportsmen would have to be the exception to the rule across the Western World.  Although do players continue on with educations after they turn pro in the US like they do here?

John Madden and Richie Benaud are indeed two of the best sports broadcasters in the world, it'll be a dark day for Australian and English cricket when the great man retires.

What's odd for me though is Madden is the lone analyst on MNF, there are times when someone else in the box would be good so they could 'bounce' off each other.

The weirdest thing for me is that the US Sports are a 20th Century phenomenon (on the whole), compared to the longer history in both Britain and Australia.

Having recently been ice-skating for the first time since I was five, I'm rather envious of NHL players who make it look so easy.  But then if we had snow and ice, maybe ice hockey would be a sport of note here! LOL

On salary caps (one of the many Americanisations in our sports) both the rugby league and Australian Football have them as part of collective bargaining agreements (the rugby league players are in a small dispute at the moment), as a small sporting market the salary caps are more to stop teams going out of business by paying players too much as well as spreading the talent around. However only the AFL has a draft system for young talent, meaning the rugby league clubs can still stockpile talent like they do in Europe with soccer.

For mine the best of the American "Big Four" is Gridiron (16 games is the perfect length by the way), followed by the Baseball post-season.

[yh]

What's odd for me though is Madden is the lone analyst on MNF, there are times when someone else in the box would be good so they could 'bounce' off each other.

I think Madden works best in a 2 man booth.  I think a third person in the booth would simply get crowded out, literally and figuratively, by Madden's broadcast style.

And IMHO the 3 man MNF booth setup should be permanently retired as it will never get better than when it had Cosell, Dandy Don and Giff in the booth.  Man, those were the days!

[Discrim]

Educated, eloquent sportsmen would have to be the exception to the rule across the Western World.  Although do players continue on with educations after they turn pro in the US like they do here?

if they leave early, they might take summer courses for a few years til they can graduate (i.e. Vince Carter).  different depending on sport, though.

[yh]

Educated, eloquent sportsmen would have to be the exception to the rule across the Western World.

I don't think this is a valid statement because I don't think there's enough evidence out there to make a judgment.  If we limit ourselves to just the "Big 4" pro sports in the US, you're dealing with in excess of 3200 athletes.  How many do we really see on TV, hear on radio, or read quotes from in the papers?  Even if we peg that number at over 100, it's still only a 3% representative share.  And of those 100 I would say that at least half of them represent themselves well both from an educational and articulation standpoint.  The smartests guys out there are the ones who do their jobs well and stay quiet and my guess is that there's more in the silent majority than there are in front of the microphones and tape recorders.