The new nhl

[NJTank]

You know what may help the NHL in the US if they simulcast HNIC down here. I think Don Cherry could help bring more American fans to the TV sets if only we got a chance to see him every week on a night of wall to wall hockey coverage. Let some network simulcast it I know Ill watch.

[-kj]

Don Cherry's a nutjob.  But, HNIC would be nice, if only to get real announcers who really know the game.

[-kj]

JHFCoaS! $550! (Yes, I know, CDN$550, but still.)  Wow, remind me to never complain about ticket prices here.

[zer0dotcom]

Hence why I don't go to NHL games, 500 bucks is my whole budget fo a month of living

[Ez Street]

$550.00 CDN is $416.82 in US at this minute. That is still WAY TOO MUCH!

[Puckguy14]

[[[EAST]]]

New York {R}

Toronto

Boston

Montreal

New York {I}

Philadelphia

New Jersey (the only reason they will still be around is Steinbrenner's money)

Washington

Ottawa

Buffalo

[[[WEST]]]

Detroit

Chicago

Minnesota

St. Louis

Los Angeles

Colorado

Vancouver

Edmonton

Phoenix

Dallas

That's how I see it.  10 teams could go including my beloved Sharks.

[habsfannova]

You know what may help the NHL in the US if they simulcast HNIC down here. I think Don Cherry could help bring more American fans to the TV sets if only we got a chance to see him every week on a night of wall to wall hockey coverage. Let some network simulcast it I know Ill watch.

No, No, 10 million times no!  We can't let a national treasure like HNIC escape!  Soon, the Americans watching will want comet tails on the pucks

Seriously though, HNIC should stay in Canada.  It's our show.  We have to KIC (Keep it Canadian)as Stompin' Tom would say.

[NJTank]

I'm not asking to Americanize HNIC.

I want HNIC as you Canadians veiw it.

[habsfannova]

Still, pressure from American viewers will probably prompt changes.

[Ez Street]

No, No, 10 million times no! We can't let a national treasure like HNIC escape! Soon, the Americans watching will want comet tails on the pucks

GAG, the Fox Puck sucked and most american agreed. Please don't think of us that way. There are plenty of savy hockey fans here. Even in non-hockey places.

[CC97]

Still, pressure from American viewers will probably prompt changes.

That's probably true, unfortunately.

[jrh31584]

The Thrashers actually make it quasi-affordable for college students.  Tickets that are normally $36 or $40 are only $10.  And these aren't bad seats either.

[Mac the Knife]

Mark my words, kids - the Carolina Hurricanes are going absolutely nowhere.  Not if the strike lasts 5 days, or 5 years.

Why?  The lease of the Entertainment and Sports Arena (I'm sorry, I won't call it that new name - something about a Canadian bank having naming rights to an arena in Raleigh, NC disturbs me, but I digress...).  

Karmanos, being the carpet-bagger that he is and to get the comparatively sweet deal he has, had to lock the team in for the duration of the lease.  He can sell 'em, but if he tries to fold them it's lawsuit city - and even if he did manage to skirt the suits (from the city, county, taxpayers, NCSU, season ticketholders and lord knows who else) by some miracle, the lease has enforceable penalty clauses that would make even Bill Gates choke.

So when you're making your lists here, forget about Raleigh's team.  They aren't going anywhere, strike or no strike.

[JQK]

Mark my words, kids - the Carolina Hurricanes are going absolutely nowhere. Not if the strike lasts 5 days, or 5 years.

Why? The lease of the Entertainment and Sports Arena (I'm sorry, I won't call it that new name - something about a Canadian bank having naming rights to an arena in Raleigh, NC disturbs me, but I digress...).

Karmanos, being the carpet-bagger that he is and to get the comparatively sweet deal he has, had to lock the team in for the duration of the lease. He can sell 'em, but if he tries to fold them it's lawsuit city - and even if he did manage to skirt the suits (from the city, county, taxpayers, NCSU, season ticketholders and lord knows who else) by some miracle, the lease has enforceable penalty clauses that would make even Bill Gates choke.

So when you're making your lists here, forget about Raleigh's team. They aren't going anywhere, strike or no strike.

If the League deems it nessecary to cut the team, they will, and they will take on any legal reprecussions that would need to be made, but for the health of the league, alot of teams have to go. Expantion hurts, and no where is is more evident than in our beloved NHL.

It's not like anyone goes to those games down in the COnfederacy...

If it ain't motorized and going around in a circle for 4 1/2 hours, it's just not interesting to rednecks...

[yh]

If it ain't motorized and going around in a circle for 4 1/2 hours, it's just not interesting to rednecks...

Oh, for crying out loud, King.  Must you be so ignorant about NASCAR?  It's a TRIOVAL, not a circle!!!!

   

In all seriousness, I agree with you that there are plenty of legal maneuvers to get the Canes out of the lease.  This whole lockout issue has been the hot topic of conversation in the locker room at the club where I play racquetball every morning, and you can't throw a towel in there without hitting at least 2 attorneys, myself included.  We've been batting about the various ways the league might contract and what is going to happen with leases, minor league affiliations and the like.  I mean, when you really think about it, there are a ton of collateral issues to the dillemma -  the kind of crap that gives lawyers plenty of fodder to run their mouths (again, myself included).  

Unless there is a personal guarantee (which I highly doubt) then the only thing that has to be done is to fold the corporate entity that owns the franchise.  The corporation probably doesn't have much in the way or hard assets other than office equipment.  Cash is generally accumulated only through ticket sales and if there are no games, then there are no ticket sales and thus no cash.  There may be a million or so in an operating account to keep the lights on and meet front office payroll, but the money that funds the players usually only comes in when tickets are sold.  And even then, since most of the teams operate on revolving lines of credit, a bank probably has a security interest in all liquid assets, so if the team folds and the arena sues, there may be no way to liquidate the judgment.  The simple thing to do would be for the team to simply refuse to meet its franchise agreement with the league and thus force the league to revoke the franchise, however an argument might be made that the league colluded with the team and the arena might go after the league.  Therefore, the easiest thing to do is simply shut down the corporation and let the arena try to find a deep pocket -- which they won't.

Bottom line - no sticky lease agreement is going to keep an NHL team from folding.  Moving, perhaps, but folding, no.

[hockeyzealot]

Grrrr...just wrote a big long post only to have it be eaten by the internet...bad internet! bad!

Anyway...a few things. First, as someone who has lived close to the Canadian border for much of my life, I must say that I would love for HNIC to launch a sister program in the US. Seeing as how hockey isn't seen as a money maker on most American networks, maybe having a pre-established package would make the sport more appealing.

As for a post CBA cataclysm NHL roster, here's my two cents:

East:

Boston

Montreal

Ottawa

Tornoto

Buffalo

New York Rangers

New York Islanders*

Philidelphia

Carolina*

Atlanta*

Tampa Bay*

West:

Detroit

Chicago

St. Louis

Columbus

Minnesota

Dallas

Edmonton

Calgary

Colorado

Phoenix*

San Jose*

Los Angeles

Vancouver

*= franchises that may also fold over the course of the labor dispute

-----------------------------------------------------------

That makes for 6 extinct franchises: Pittsburgh, Florida, Washington, Anaheim, Nashville and New Jersey

If you want a really pesamistic prediction, count all the marked franchises as also having folded, resulting in a radically different looking league of only 18 teams!

However it should be pointed out that either way at least two of those franchises may be relocated to other markets, specifically Portland Oregon and Houston Texas. Since the majority of franchise losses appears to be in the eastern conference, a portion of formerly western franchises may be moved east to balance things out. I could easily see Detroit and Columbus being in the east, maybe even Chicago, opening up the possability for an original six devision.

[Brian in Boston]

While I'll be the first to admit that a prolonged work stoppage may bring significant changes to the way the NHL conducts its business, I won't be able to join Sterling84 in applauding NHL owners for finally taking the time to "make things right, realistic and fan friendly". The time for all of that has long since passed.

The time for being "right" and "realistic", for "Planning for the future", was 15 or 20 years ago. Instead, as Sterling correctly assesses, the NHLPA was trying to figure out how to wring as much money out of the owners as possible. The owners were trying to figure out how to wring as much money out of the expansion groups, local governments and the fans as possible. And the fans? They would soon be faced with trying to wring as much entertainment and enjoyment out of pro sports' rapidly diminishing returns as possible.

I wish I was capable of embracing Sterling84's self-sacrificing pragmatism ("If it costs me my beloved Caps, so be it.") in the face of the NHL contraction that we all seem to believe is a foregone conclusion. I can't. The only problem with the idea that the owners and players are finally going to make things "fan friendly once and for all", is that the die-hard fans in the contracted/abandoned markets are going to seriously question this new definition of "fan friendly". It's going to be pretty difficult to get too excited about the new and improved NHL when your favorite team winds up in the "DEFUNCT" column of the NHL Register. Better that these fans should have never given their hearts to the NHL for 5, 10, 15 or 20 years, than to have done so willingly only to callously have their hearts torn out.

You see, it is impossible for me to clap these selfish, self-aggrandizing, self-serving owners and players on the back for finally pulling their collective head out of their collective @$$! They brought us to this point, so I'll be damned if I'm going to applaud them for coming to their senses. It amounts to congratulating them for screwing things up in the first place.

Besides, how exactly will we - the fans - benefit? Who suffers the most if the work stoppage drags on? The owners and top-shelf players? Hell no! They've already made more money then we'll ever hope to see. The lower level players? No! They'll either eagerly grab the chance of playing in a "bargain basement" edition of the NHL, or they'll fill out the rosters in a new WHA. The folks left holding the bag during this mess will be the folks who are always bearing the brunt of pro sports mismanagement and excess: the fans!

Oh, and by the way, don't expect to notice much of a difference one the dust clears. If you think that the price of tickets is going to be radically reduced, you're sorely mistaken. If you think that games are going to be rendered more meaningful by significantly reducing the length of the schedule, dream on. Because the owners and players who are left standing are going to still be hell-bent on lining their wallets. I can just hear the rationale now: "Well, we've separated the wheat from the chaff. With fewer teams, the talent level on each surviving squad is exponentially higher. Plus, with a (slightly) shorter schedule, every game is more important. You, the fan, have got to be willing to pay more money for a better quality of product."

Changes are coming... you can bet on it. Just don't expect that they're meant to make things more "right, realistic and fan friendly"... at least not for the average fan.

Brian in Boston

[habsfannova]

One of the great Ironies of sport is that while fans don't usually like owners and perfer the players personally, what is best for the owners is the best for the fan.

I just want more teams gone and lower ticket prices as a Canadian fan.  I think 24 teams would be absolutly perfect for the league.

THe biggest mistake made, though, was by the man we are cheering on now.  While the strike was going on in 1994 for a *gasp!* 16million salary cap, the owners of the large markets took over the bargaining, sold out the Nords, Jets, and others just so they could get the season started.  The main thought was that the owners would have a brain and not offer over the edge contracts. hehe.

Anyway, things are looking that bad RIGHT NOW.  GM Jay Feaster of Tampa, and the owner Bill Davidson, totally destroyed the 2nd contract balance (For those who don't know, every starting contract in the NHL is 3 years, with an approximent 1.4mil cap on yearly salary, excluding bonus) by going WAY overboard on Brad Richards.  Relative to other salaries, he probably deserves it, but he totally blew the cover off of what little control there is in the NHL.  Gaborik, Havlat, and others used that to further bring up their contracts.  Lots of solidarity there.

THe owners have to much greed to be united.  It will be interesting, to say the least, if anything starts happening.  Once the teams start folding, it might be pretty hard for them to start sticking.  OR, maybe they want the weak links out, to make room for revenue sharing.

Very good drama.  If only we could have the hockey/setup/salaries of the real glory days of the NHL, the 1980's.

[jkrdevil]

First off I want to make things clear about the Devils situation. If teams fold the will not be one. First off, they've been losing money because they owed money to former thier former owner, for the purchase of the team, and the NJSEA has been ripping them off since they moved. The Devils up untill 95 got i think 0% of ticket sales and parking. Now they have a higher percentage (it couldn't get lower), but not as much as the other teams (most get 100%). I heard a couple a months ago that the two sides were close to an agreement where the teams will get a high percentage.

Another major note with the Devils is that YankeeNets is only selling the Nets, the Devils are not for sale. YankeeNets belives they can make money with the Devils. The Devils have a solid young fan base (future ticket buyers). Plus, the NHL won't let a New York area team leave. The only thing I think the Devs need to do is lower ticket prices.

Habsfan, I don't think the 80's were the glory days of hockey. There are more fans now than then. And outside of Roy, the 80's featured some of the worst goaltending in league history.

The NHL can sell the game as it is on the ice today if they do it right. Sell the hitting, and defense. The NFL does it. Think of the great teams what do you think off. The 85 Bears defense, the Steel Curtain, the Doomsday defense, and the no-name defense of the Dolphins. How many great offenses do you think of???

Lots of scoring doesn't mean excitement. 12-10 All-Star games aren't exciting. Just last week there was very exciting game between 2 trapping teams the Devils and Flyers. Most of these boring games are blowouts and blowouts are never exciting. You can't say Detroit beating the Pens 7-1 is exciting.

But if you want high scoring, don't blame the trap. In 2001 the Devils led the NHL in scoring while playing the trap.

Overall, I think scoring should stay where it is. I don't want the NHL to become the boring NBA with no defense where only the final minute of the game matters. In hockey the full 60 minutes matters, and that's how it should stay.

[yh]

Sometimes it's like watching your wife try to play one of your video games and you are pulling your hair out........"right there! Its right in front of y.....just turn and pick it up! Aaaaaah I cant watch!"

I relish those moments and consider them revenge for all the driving suggestions she makes while I'm behind the wheel!

I think your gut feeling is correct and because the end result is going to be that the NHL in some form will return, people will rush to thank those that managed to "save pro hockey."