...why not a playoff system in 1a football?

[Gary]

My Playoff System:

The Basics:

-Add one Division I-AA team* to make it 120 even.

-Split the 120 teams into two groups of 60.

-Split the 60 teams into four Conferences of 15 in both groups**.

-Five of the 15 teams make it to the playoffs (Forty teams in all.)

*If Temple deserves to be Division I-A then so does whoever this is going to be, just pick the Division I-AA National Champion.

**So anyone who thinks Notre Dame should finally join a Conference will have their wish fulfilled.

The Games:

-The 40 teams will be ranked based on record, then Conference standings, and then schedule strength and then if any tie-breakers are needed after that I will think of some. Remember there are two "groups" but it's the same system for each one.

-Teams ranked #1-10 get Bye weeks. The others play eache other like this:

11-20

12-19

13-18

14-17

15-16

-The winners then play 1-10, there is no re-ranking.

-This will continue until we reach the last team in each group and they will play for the National Championship.

I don't really like that idea, for one it leaves out tradition of the conferences.

My Idea

AP, USA Today and BCS Polls will not come out until the 5th week of the season that way there we know who is good and who is actually overrated(NOTRE DAME i'm looking at you).

Keep the 4 Rotating BCS Bowls and use them as 2 Quarter Finals and 2 Semi Final Matchups(I would add the Gator and Capital One Bowl as the other two Quarter Final Bowls)

16 Teams

11 Conference Champions

5 At Large Bids

2 Brackets of 8 Schools

Make the BCS a top 50 Poll and if a At Large School is ranked ahead of a Conference Champion than the positions will stay the same!

1st Round will be played at the higher ranked schools

Quarter Finals will be played at the Sugar, Fiesta, Gator and Capital One Bowls

Semi Finals will be played at the Orange and Rose

Championship Game will be played at Glendale, AZ(If they had a playoff this year)

Right now here is how I would have the seedings

*Projected Champions

Bracket A

1 Ohio State*

8 Middle Tennessee State*

4 Wisconsin

5 Arkansas

3 LSU

6 Notre Dame

2 Florida*

7 Ohio*

Bracket B

1 Southern California*

8 Houston*

4 Boise State*

5 Oklahoma*

3 Louisville

6 Rutgers**

2 Michigan

7 Brigham Young*

Of course the brackets can change, but as of right now this is the way it looks right now

**Rutgers wins the Big East which takes higher ranked(BCS) Auburn out of the playoffs and into a regular bowl game

[HedleyLamarr]

Do you folks not realize how much more chaos there would be if there were a playoff system? Instead of arguing about who's #2, there would be an arguement over who's #4/#8/#16....and a much more muddled arguement involving a whole lot more teams.

And then what? Do you propose that these student-athletes play playoff games while they study for their Final Exams, or do you do every team an injustice, by having them take a month-long break, before you play the playoffs?

[Mac the Knife]

I hereby offer the NCAA $250,000,000 per year, for ten years, to conduct a national football championship tournament under the following conditions:

(1a) I retain all TV and radio broadcast rights to the games, able to sell them to the highest bidder.

(1b) Each NCAA affilated institution classified as "Division I" in football must receive a minimum of $1 million from the amount paid. The remaining funds should be divided among the competing institutions in a 50/20/5 manner (the national champion gets 50%, the team that loses the title game gets 20%, and the other six schools get 5% each).

(2) The NCAA can have as many bowl games as it likes, provided no bowl game could be played after January 1.

(3) 8 teams will qualify under my NCAA football championship tournament. Since I'm paying a quarter billion dollars a year to stage the event, I pick the participating schools, but only after post-bowl polls and BCS rankings are announced. I also pick the game sites, so I can partially recoup my investment through gate receipts.

(4) The 8 teams will play first round games on the first Saturday after January 1st. Four games, with ticket prices going for $100 - $200, depending on the venue. The broadcast rights for these games will be offered to ABC, CBS, FOX, TNT, NBC and ESPN, and each will be awarded to the highest bidder.

(5) The 4 surviving teams will play second round games the following Saturday. Two games, with ticket prices going for $150 - $350, again depending on the venue. Broadcast rights for these games would be sold in similar fashion to the networks.

(6) The two defeated teams would advance to a National Consolation Game, played on the Saturday of the weekend between the NFL's conference championship games and Super Bowl, at a neutral site. Ticket prices would be $200 - $400, depending on the venue, and broadcast rights would be sold similar to the previous games.

(7) The two surviving teams would advance to the National Championship Game, played on the Sunday of the weekend between the NFL's conference championship games and Super Bowl, at the Super Bowl site. Ticket prices would be $500 - $1,000 each, depending on location. Unless a network is prepared to pay the equivalent of a Super Bowl rights fee ($300 million last time I checked) for the game, it would be made available on PPV for $69.95. At roughly 4.3 million 'buys' nationwide, the PPV money alone would bring in $300 million.

Now, let's do the math. Going out?

$ 250,000,000 for promotional rights

$ 10,000,000 for stadium-related/staging expenses

$ 10,000,000 for other, miscellaneous expenses

Coming in?

$ 20,000,000 in revenue from the gate at first round games (minimum at $100/ticket, assuming a venue that holds 50,000 seats - a conservative number to be sure).

$ 15,000,000 in revenue from the gate at second round games (minimum $150/ticket, 50K capacity).

$ 10,000,000 in revenue from the gate at a National Consolation Game (min. $200/ticket, 50K cap.).

$ 32,500,000 in revenue from the gate at the National Championship Game (min. $500/ticket, with Super Bowl venue holding at least 65,000 fans).

$ 300,000,000 in revenue, either by rights fees or PPV, for the National Championship Game

$ 5,000,000 in rights fees for the National Consolation Game.

$ 20,000,000 in rights fees for the two national semi-final games.

$ 20,000,000 in rights fees for the four first round games.

Revenue: $ 422.5 million

Expenses: $ 270 million

EBITDA: $ 152.5 million.

Then let's factor in ancillaries such as corporate sponsorship of games ("The Doritos National Quarterfinal Game"), media buys of advertising time, particularly in a PPV telecast of the national championship game, and its not unreasonable to think you could tack on another $100 million to that number.

Not bad for a month's work... where do I sign up?

[HedleyLamarr]

(4) The 8 teams will play first round games on the first Saturday after January 1st. Four games, with ticket prices going for $100 - $200, depending on the venue. The broadcast rights for these games will be offered to ABC, CBS, FOX, TNT, NBC and ESPN, and each will be awarded to the highest bidder.

So you want the playoffs to begin at least a month after the regular season?

Tell me one other sports league that has it's playoffs begin one month after the regular season ended.

[Epiphanic]

First I'd like to say that Mad Mac has it all figured out although I'd prefer a 16- team playoff verses eight, but the idea is solid.

Hadley, your concern that the debate would shift from "who's #2?" to "who's #8/16?" is a valid one, but I (along with others) equate it to debating to "who's #65?" in basketball. With a 16-team field you'd take the champions of the 11 conferences and 5 at-larges. I doubt that the #6 at-large would have a great argument as to why they should have a shot. You could say that some of the weak conference champions take away from other "more deserving" teams. To that I say, bummer. If you can't prove you're the best in your conference, why should you get the shot at trying to prove you're the best in the country? Just my opinion.

In all reality the Bowl system won't be replaced because of money. What gets me though is how the NCAA tries to pose this system as a way to crown one national champion. We've already seen split titles. If the NCAA is cool with split titles fine. Keep it as is, but let's stop the pretense. If you want one, true national champion you need a playoff system, which is certainly possible as smaller schools have proven.

I do find it funny that virtually all the posts in this thread have been how various people would design a playoff system. That wasn't the original question. The topic starter was wondering the reasons why a playoff system is undesirable, and the only reason is either money (which Mad Mac's plan shows could bring in serious bank, deflating that argument) or because the league presidents don't want one just because (pretty flimsy in my opinion).

Mad Mac, are you taking investors for your plan?

[rams80]

Do you folks not realize how much more chaos there would be if there were a playoff system? Instead of arguing about who's #2, there would be an arguement over who's #4/#8/#16....and a much more muddled arguement involving a whole lot more teams.

And then what? Do you propose that these student-athletes play playoff games while they study for their Final Exams, or do you do every team an injustice, by having them take a month-long break, before you play the playoffs?

I propose we abandon the fiction that Division IA college football atheletes are student-athletes, and let the finals work themselves out...

Play the games. The number of teams who might be playing during finals would not be many methinks.

[HedleyLamarr]

Do you folks not realize how much more chaos there would be if there were a playoff system? Instead of arguing about who's #2, there would be an arguement over who's #4/#8/#16....and a much more muddled arguement involving a whole lot more teams.

And then what? Do you propose that these student-athletes play playoff games while they study for their Final Exams, or do you do every team an injustice, by having them take a month-long break, before you play the playoffs?

I propose we abandon the fiction that Division IA college football atheletes are student-athletes, and let the finals work themselves out...

Play the games. The number of teams who might be playing during finals would not be many methinks.

Are you saying that each and every Division I-A football player (or any other athlete) isn't in school to earn a degree? Are you saying that each and every Division I-A football player will leave school early to turn pro in the NFL?

[rams80]

Do you folks not realize how much more chaos there would be if there were a playoff system? Instead of arguing about who's #2, there would be an arguement over who's #4/#8/#16....and a much more muddled arguement involving a whole lot more teams.

And then what? Do you propose that these student-athletes play playoff games while they study for their Final Exams, or do you do every team an injustice, by having them take a month-long break, before you play the playoffs?

I propose we abandon the fiction that Division IA college football atheletes are student-athletes, and let the finals work themselves out...

Play the games. The number of teams who might be playing during finals would not be many methinks.

Are you saying that each and every Division I-A football player (or any other athlete) isn't in school to earn a degree? Are you saying that each and every Division I-A football player will leave school early to turn pro in the NFL?

I'm saying that's probably not far off the mark in the case of the teams that would most likely be playing at that point of the season.

(Sorry, my cynicism is in overdrive right now).

[pcgd]

The thing is, the student-athletes in the lower levels (D3 esspecially) have alot more studying to do because they are actually taking real classes. Yet they successfully go through a 32 team playoff.

You've got to be kidding me that having Notre Dame's (or any other football powerhouse) fans buy tickets to 5 bowl games instead of 1 wouldn't bring in more money. Not to mention the money from TV.

Current system:

1 meaningful game to the nation

31 meaningful games to 62 teams

32 Team Playoff:

31 meaningful games to the nation

I'd watch a first round football playoff game waaaaay before I'll watch a non-title BCS game that doesn't feature my team.

[See Red]

(4) The 8 teams will play first round games on the first Saturday after January 1st. Four games, with ticket prices going for $100 - $200, depending on the venue. The broadcast rights for these games will be offered to ABC, CBS, FOX, TNT, NBC and ESPN, and each will be awarded to the highest bidder.

So you want the playoffs to begin at least a month after the regular season?

Tell me one other sports league that has it's playoffs begin one month after the regular season ended.

To be fair, does it make any sense that Ohio State will be playing the Championship game, like, 50 days after their last regular season game?

[Ben5]

Lot to cover here, so bear with me.

Well, these are college kids... maybe those extra weeks could be used.... studying for finals?

Like the schools care about educating the players...

Seriously, I doubt there will be much need for the players to study for finals, as I doubt there is much need for them to do now.

Do you folks not realize how much more chaos there would be if there were a playoff system? Instead of arguing about who's #2, there would be an arguement over who's #4/#8/#16....and a much more muddled arguement involving a whole lot more teams.

And then what? Do you propose that these student-athletes play playoff games while they study for their Final Exams, or do you do every team an injustice, by having them take a month-long break, before you play the playoffs?

I propose we abandon the fiction that Division IA college football atheletes are student-athletes, and let the finals work themselves out...

Play the games. The number of teams who might be playing during finals would not be many methinks.

You obviously do not attend Wake Forest. Since I attend school here, I feel I can get a handle on the academic situation for athletes. FACT: Freshmen athletes must attend study hall. FACT: If an athlete is struggling, they get a tutor. FACT: Athletes are required to do all the work and take all the tests that regular students are (at least in every class I've taken). FACT: They are student athletes.

I realize that some professors may be a little more giving when it comes to grading athletes, but that is not universal. We had two football players who would have played, if not started this season get put on academic probation.

*Projected Champions

Bracket A

1 Ohio State*

8 Middle Tennessee State*

4 Wisconsin

5 Arkansas

3 LSU

6 Notre Dame

2 Florida*

7 Ohio*

Bracket B

1 Southern California*

8 Houston*

4 Boise State*

5 Oklahoma*

3 Louisville

6 Rutgers**

2 Michigan

7 Brigham Young*

Of course the brackets can change, but as of right now this is the way it looks right now

**Rutgers wins the Big East which takes higher ranked(BCS) Auburn out of the playoffs and into a regular bowl game

So the ACC doesn't get a spot?

A playoff system will not happen anytime so. Too much money is being thrown around in the current system. I propose the +1 format. Play all the bowls on or before New Years Day, then the top two teams play for the championship a week later.

[DrBear]

Won't happen. The real reasoning is:

Championship - One team wins its final game, 7 or 15 others don't, another 16-18-24 don't play anything = a lot of unhappy alums and coaches in trouble.

Bowls - Two teams in championship game, four others win BCS-level bowls, 12 others can claim a bowl win to end the season, others can at least get in a postseason game. More happy coaches, more happy alumni=more money coming in.

[Brian in Boston]

Are you saying that each and every Division I-A football player (or any other athlete) isn't in school to earn a degree?

What I'm saying is that each and every Division 1-A football player should be as capable of competing in a football playoff system while simultaneously completing his course-work as Division 1-AA, 2 and 3 football players appear to be. If the Division 1-A football players aren't up to that challenge, then perhaps they should reconsider...

1) Whether they should be participating in football at all.

2) Whether college is the appropriate choice for them.

Bottom line? The argument against a Division 1-A college football playoff because of the supposed impact such a playoff would have on the academic standing of Division 1-A players is a complete and utter CROCK. The presidents, administrators, coaches and boosters at a majority of Division 1-A football schools are against a playoff because the current bowl system rewards all but the most moribund of programs with a chance to crow about snagging a bowl berth. Period.

[OB33]

Playoff proposition #3054087330

Once the season is over the top 8 teams would be taken just like the BCS before this year. Then you'd have an 8 team playoff starting the week after the Heisman Trophy presentation. All the playoff games would take place at the higher seed's home field. The 4 teams that lose in the round of 8 play in the bottom 2 bowls. The losers in the semis would play in the 2nd highest bowl and the and the two winners in the semis would face off in the major bowl that year to decide the title. And teams could always be swapped around if a Big Ten Pac-10 matchup was available for the Rose Bowl. That way the bowls still play significance, the schools that aren't in the top 8 still get to go to a bowl and everyone's happy.

Here's an example of how it would go using this year's format:

Top seed Ohio State would host 8 seed Boise State

2 seed USC would host 7 seed LSU

3 seed Michigan would host 6 seed Wake Forest

4 seed Florida would host 5 seed Louisville

*-Teams used are strictly hypothetical

Then lets assume the top seeds win out, Florida would go to Ohio State and Michigan would go to USC. Meanwhile, Louisville would play Wake Forest in the Orange Bowl and LSU would play Boise State in the Rose Bowl.

Now, assuming top seeds win again, Ohio State would play USC in the Fiesta Bowl and Michigan would play Florida in the Sugar Bowl.

And of course the bowls would rotate so every 4 years each of the BCS bowls hosts the 1 v. 2 matchup.

So that's my idea. Feel free to expose whatever flaws there are in this system.

[rams80]

Lot to cover here, so bear with me.

Well, these are college kids... maybe those extra weeks could be used.... studying for finals?

Like the schools care about educating the players...

Seriously, I doubt there will be much need for the players to study for finals, as I doubt there is much need for them to do now.

Do you folks not realize how much more chaos there would be if there were a playoff system? Instead of arguing about who's #2, there would be an arguement over who's #4/#8/#16....and a much more muddled arguement involving a whole lot more teams.

And then what? Do you propose that these student-athletes play playoff games while they study for their Final Exams, or do you do every team an injustice, by having them take a month-long break, before you play the playoffs?

I propose we abandon the fiction that Division IA college football atheletes are student-athletes, and let the finals work themselves out...

Play the games. The number of teams who might be playing during finals would not be many methinks.

You obviously do not attend Wake Forest. Since I attend school here, I feel I can get a handle on the academic situation for athletes. FACT: Freshmen athletes must attend study hall. FACT: If an athlete is struggling, they get a tutor. FACT: Athletes are required to do all the work and take all the tests that regular students are (at least in every class I've taken). FACT: They are student athletes.

I realize that some professors may be a little more giving when it comes to grading athletes, but that is not universal. We had two football players who would have played, if not started this season get put on academic probation.

*Projected Champions

Bracket A

1 Ohio State*

8 Middle Tennessee State*

4 Wisconsin

5 Arkansas

3 LSU

6 Notre Dame

2 Florida*

7 Ohio*

Bracket B

1 Southern California*

8 Houston*

4 Boise State*

5 Oklahoma*

3 Louisville

6 Rutgers**

2 Michigan

7 Brigham Young*

Of course the brackets can change, but as of right now this is the way it looks right now

**Rutgers wins the Big East which takes higher ranked(BCS) Auburn out of the playoffs and into a regular bowl game

So the ACC doesn't get a spot?

A playoff system will not happen anytime so. Too much money is being thrown around in the current system. I propose the +1 format. Play all the bowls on or before New Years Day, then the top two teams play for the championship a week later.

To be honest, I don't think of Wake Forest as a typical offender (or regular CFB power either-you may have noticed I made a reference too "not thinking this would be a problem for schools you would regularly expect to be playing at that point." I'm not anticipating Wake would be regularly playing in the playoffs at that point.) I'm sure Vandy, Northwestern, Duke, Stanford etc. do actually have similar standards to Wake Forest.

My cynicism was more directed towards the more traditional powers-the OSUs, Texases, USCs, and Miami/FSU/Floridas of the world.

[Brian in Boston]

Won't happen. The real reasoning is:

Championship - One team wins its final game, 7 or 15 others don't, another 16-18-24 don't play anything = a lot of unhappy alums and coaches in trouble.

Bowls - Two teams in championship game, four others win BCS-level bowls, 12 others can claim a bowl win to end the season, others can at least get in a postseason game. More happy coaches, more happy alumni=more money coming in.

Precisely! Sadly, the current system at the Division 1-A level of college football is - by and large - all about rewarding mediocrity at the greatest number of schools.

[mjrbaseball]

If it would be a 16-team playoff tournament, there is an easy way to pick who gets in:

There are 11 Division I-A conferences. Therefore, the 11 conference champions get in. Then add five Wild Cards - the five non-champions with the best overall records. Independents such as Notre Dame, Army, Navy, etc could qualify as Wild Cards.

If anyone says that certain conferences shouldn't be eligible, well then let those conferences drop down to Division I-AA. If they are in I-A, then they deserve a shot.

[Saturn]

No to playoffs..well to anything over 4 teams. It'll end up weakening the season and you'll have the highest seeds along w/ conference powerhouses half-assing it into the playoffs. Now that I think about it the NBA should reduce the number of its teams in the playoffs considering how so many players half ass it until the final few weeks of the season.

[WJMorris3]

For what it's worth, 16 in my opinion is the smallest practical size, but I prefer 24 teams. If you're going to have a playoff, then you need to invite all 11 conference champions. So what if that conference is the Sun Belt? Give everyone a chance.

What I have in mind is 24 teams, plus bowls for teams that didn't make it. The following principles would be followed.

• Each conference champ will qualify for the tournament and be seeded no lower than 16th.
  
• 13 at-large teams will qualify for the tournament, based on the BCS standings; however no conference may have more than four teams in the tournament.
  
• No two teams from the same conference, or who have played each other in the regular season may play each other until the quarterfinals, and preferably, the semifinals (seeds may be moved no more than one seed to prevent this from happening).
  
• The 9th through 16th seeds will host the first round of playoff games. The second round will be hosted by the 1st through 8th seeds. All other games will be played at neutral sites. (Note that this means that the top 16 teams will each host one playoff game, and that every conference champion is guaranteed to host a game -- not a bad reward for winning your conference, assuming that you keep the gate for the game.)
  

As of right now, if we assume that the higher seeds are credited as the conference champions, where there is a tie for a conference lead, we'd end up with the following bracket.

(17) Notre Dame at (16) Troy, winner at (1) Ohio State

(24*) Nebraska at (9) Arkansas, winner at (8) Boise State

(20) West Virginia at (13) Georgia Tech, winner at (4) Florida

(21) California at (12*) Rutgers, winner at (5) LSU

(18) Auburn at (15) Ohio, winner at (2) USC

(23*) Georgia Tech at (10) Oklahoma, winner at (7) Wisconsin

(19) Virginia Tech at (14) Houston, winner at (3) Michigan

(22) Texas at (11*) Brigham Young, winner at (6) Louisville

(I've starred adjusted seeds. For conference champions below the BCS line, I went by common opinion and the Harris Poll. Tennessee was excluded because they would have been the 5th SEC team, and the playoff system only allows for four.)

[jkrdevil]

Do you folks not realize how much more chaos there would be if there were a playoff system? Instead of arguing about who's #2, there would be an arguement over who's #4/#8/#16....and a much more muddled arguement involving a whole lot more teams.

And then what? Do you propose that these student-athletes play playoff games while they study for their Final Exams, or do you do every team an injustice, by having them take a month-long break, before you play the playoffs?

That's why you go with a 16 team playoff, all 11 conference champions get an automatic bid then you go with the next 5 remaining teams with the best record with strength of schedule as the tie-breaker. It takes human opinion completly out of deciding who gets in and out. There is no argument because the numbers are what they are. A committee can then seed those 16 teams but they can't decide who gets in and out. I have for the past few seasons looked at the numbers (including this year if the season ended today) and those 5 additional "wild card" teams would all come from major conferences.

As far as a month off, they all have a month off between the last game and their bowl game what's the difference between that and this?

Also the season wouldn't be weakend by a playoff of this size because of the amount of (or lack of) regualar season games for each team. Often times conference championships will come down to the last week. Plus anything more than 1 loss and a team is at risk of missing the tournament if they don't win their conference. The same regular season drama is there plus then more with a playoff.