New logo for Chargers, Dolphins & NFL shield "refined"?

[BallWonk]

The NFL is the best-run league in the country, in terms of building its product. The NHL is the absolute worst, hands down. Only the XFL was more ineptly handled than the NHL of the last decade.

There's nothing that the NFL can learn from the NHL except failure. Watch the NHL carefully, then do the opposite.

However, that has no real bearing on the advisability of a logo redesign. Some things I would bring up in a meeting on the topic:

1. The NFL logo lettering is not outdated. It's classic. I don't say that very often about old stuff -- the Yankees uniforms, for example, aren't classic; they're just so old we've stopped noticing their significant flaws --- but in this case it's true. Those are distinctive letters, and the whole shield conveys a message about league identity more effectively than any other league logo.

2. However, the letters when removed from the shield completely suck. As with the NFL TV logo. The letters are carefully shaped to fit a particular shape, and when removed from that shape they just don't work. They're random at best, confusing at worst. The NFL absolutely needs to come up with a secondary wordmark that can be used on its own when one needs to say NFL without using the whole shield. Same letter style, hopefully, but reshaped into a rectangle or a bulge like the part of a classic football between the white lines. Maybe a star on each side.

3. What's with having 25 stars on the shield? That makes no sense. An update to include, say, 8 stars or 11 stars or 32 stars or some number that means something is totally called for, even if nothing else on the logo changes. Just because you have the best league logo in pro sports doesn't mean it can't be improved on the margins as time goes by.

[kmw_29]

1. NFL Logo: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Does it look like a product of something from the 60's? Yes. Does that make it bad? Absolutely not.

2. Dolphins: I love their current logo, but I would like to see them drop the drop-shadow on their uniform numbers. I have never cared for that look (Niners, Bengals, etc.)

3. Chargers: I love the Bolt. I think that their word-mark could use some updating, however, I would not like to see them return to the word-mark with the goal-posts for an "H". I don't mind their navy uniforms, and I absolutely love their powder blue ones. So, I could go either way. I do agree with the assessment that the powder blue and gold is becoming fashionable, and would therefore lose some of the uniqueness to the Chargers.

[whitedawg22]

The NFL is the best-run league in the country, in terms of building its product. The NHL is the absolute worst, hands down. Only the XFL was more ineptly handled than the NHL of the last decade.

There's nothing that the NFL can learn from the NHL except failure. Watch the NHL carefully, then do the opposite.

However, that has no real bearing on the advisability of a logo redesign. Some things I would bring up in a meeting on the topic:

1. The NFL logo lettering is not outdated. It's classic. I don't say that very often about old stuff -- the Yankees uniforms, for example, aren't classic; they're just so old we've stopped noticing their significant flaws --- but in this case it's true. Those are distinctive letters, and the whole shield conveys a message about league identity more effectively than any other league logo.

2. However, the letters when removed from the shield completely suck. As with the NFL TV logo. The letters are carefully shaped to fit a particular shape, and when removed from that shape they just don't work. They're random at best, confusing at worst. The NFL absolutely needs to come up with a secondary wordmark that can be used on its own when one needs to say NFL without using the whole shield. Same letter style, hopefully, but reshaped into a rectangle or a bulge like the part of a classic football between the white lines. Maybe a star on each side.

3. What's with having 25 stars on the shield? That makes no sense. An update to include, say, 8 stars or 11 stars or 32 stars or some number that means something is totally called for, even if nothing else on the logo changes. Just because you have the best league logo in pro sports doesn't mean it can't be improved on the margins as time goes by.

I completely agree - this summarizes my feelings on this thread better than anything else.

[IceCap]

I don't think your point was missed.

My reading of your post was that, since one league was willing to change its incredibly long-lived, beloved logo, then any league may well do it. The taboo has been broken. Is that an accurate summary?

Exactly. Your response, however, had more to do with why the NFL shouldn't change their logo. I wasn't necessarily saying they should, just that now that the classic NHL logo is gone they could.

It would be like if the Yankees traded in their classic marks for a cartoon Uncle Sam logo. If the Yankees did that, then the "untouchable" status for the rest of MLB's classic logos would be gone. Does that mean that the Tigers should change their look? No, it just means that they could.

I have to say that I don't really see the connection between what the NHL has already done and what the NFL could do in the future.

Frankly, I'm not sure that the NFL has ever looked to the NHL for anything, especially now. Has the NFL even noticed the change?

That doesn't matter. I'm saying from a "classic league logos that are untouchable" standpoint once the NHL's logo changed all bets are off. No other league logo is "untouchable" now.

[arkansasdolfan]

I dont know if you guys noticed this last night, but the Dolphin Stadium logo was different. Where as it used to be navy, aqua, and coral. It was now white, lighter aqua, and coral. Is it a sign or just a coincidence? We will find out soon enough.

[leedsunited]

The dolphins logo is the worst in football....followed by the Ravens and Bills...and then theres the Lions...and of course the controversial Redskins.

I can understand you not liking the Dolphins logo, but to say it's the worst in the league?

I wouldn't trust any "designer" that can't appreciate the classic aesthetic of the Dolphin logo.

[Survival79]

I dont know if you guys noticed this last night, but the Dolphin Stadium logo was different. Where as it used to be navy, aqua, and coral. It was now white, lighter aqua, and coral. Is it a sign or just a coincidence? We will find out soon enough.

It appears to change depending on the background color:

[arkansasdolfan]

I just risked a virus on dolphinsstadium.com (I dont know if its still infected or not) and yes, the navy is out in the logo. It is a gray for sure. Compare this one to the one on this site, you will see the difference. I think this is a SIGNIFICANT tip that the Phins are finally dropping the navy.

[yh]

DON'T CHANGE THE NFL LOGO FOR PETE'S SAKE!

Pun intended?

[Gothamite]

That doesn't matter. I'm saying from a "classic league logos that are untouchable" standpoint once the NHL's logo changed all bets are off. No other league logo is "untouchable" now.

I get that, but you'd have to first prove that 1) the other league logos were at one point considered "untouchable", and 2) the NHL making a change is itself sufficient cause for other leagues to reconsider #1.

[TruColor]

I just risked a virus on dolphinsstadium.com (I dont know if its still infected or not) and yes, the navy is out in the logo. It is a gray for sure. Compare this one to the one on this site, you will see the difference. I think this is a SIGNIFICANT tip that the Phins are finally dropping the navy.

The background that the logo sits on is Navy...I'm not sure how that is a significant tip of anything...other than the fact that there are alternate colors for the logo depending on what color background it sits on.

Oh - and the "official" URL is www.dolphinstadium.com...they made it singular this past year.

[whitedawg22]

I just risked a virus on dolphinsstadium.com (I dont know if its still infected or not) and yes, the navy is out in the logo. It is a gray for sure. Compare this one to the one on this site, you will see the difference. I think this is a SIGNIFICANT tip that the Phins are finally dropping the navy.

The background that the logo sits on is Navy...I'm not sure how that is a significant tip of anything...other than the fact that there are alternate colors for the logo depending on what color background it sits on.

Oh - and the "official" URL is www.dolphinstadium.com...they made it singular this past year.

I'm inclined to agree - I think the top is just gray because of the navy background. Here's the logo:

[Chazberg]

I love the letterforms of the current NFL logo and would absolutely hate to see those go ( they look even more gorgeous when taken out of context of the shield shape (like in the NFL network logo). if anything ... i hope its just a slight reworking. my tasklist if redesigning this guy would be:

- keep the concept (ie, shield with stars and ball on blue, and red NFL)

- keep the letterforms

- keep the color composition (addition of silver is acceptable, but the amounts and general locations of red white and blue should remain similar)

- rework the shield shape (maybe something to fit a bit more naturally within the EQUIPMENT logo, as thats used everywhere and looks quite right on the jerseys)

- rework the stars and football so they fit a bit nicer together (correct outlines and partial stars)

- no 3Ding

thats really it ... i love SB34 logo, but the 3Ding isnt right for a league logo, it dates it too much.

Funny, I was just thinking that the one good thing that could come of this would be the abolishment of that wretched Equipment logo. For the love of God, go back to the shield by itself on the uniforms.

[IceCap]

That doesn't matter. I'm saying from a "classic league logos that are untouchable" standpoint once the NHL's logo changed all bets are off. No other league logo is "untouchable" now.

I get that, but you'd have to first prove that 1) the other league logos were at one point considered "untouchable", and 2) the NHL making a change is itself sufficient cause for other leagues to reconsider #1.

Prior to 2005 I would have said out of the "Big 4" the NHL and NFL shields were untouchable.

As for whether the NHL changing their logo would affect the NFL's decision on whether or not to change theirs, I'm not sure honestly. I agree, if I were in charge of NFL marketing I wouldn't look to NHL for anything. However, if the idea to change to the logo came up, I could see a conversation like this happening;

guy 1) You know, it's about time we updated the logo.

guy 2) Yeah, but it's kind of classic. Some people may be upset if we change it.

guy 1) Eh, the NHL changed theirs after 88 years, we can get away with it.

[js °]

DON'T CHANGE THE NFL LOGO FOR PETE'S SAKE!

Pun intended?

HA .. well played sir

[mkwing]

I can't find any pictures on the web, but in its first years, the number font for the Dolphins was a very fat block style. There were very small holes in the 8's, 4's, 9's and 6's. Don't remember what the zeros looked like.

This led to an interesting scene in their first two Super Bowls. I think Griese and Csonka (and almost surely some others) wore the older "fat-number" jerseys, which also omitted sleeve stripes. Others (Morris for sure) had thinner numerals, and Packer/Buckeye-style sleeve stripes. Always looked weird when Csonka and Morris were together in the backfirld.

By the Houston SB vs. Minnesota, I think they all were wearing the newer design. (I could go back and check photos, but it's getting late out here, and I'm too tired to look them up.

[Gothamite]

Funny, I was just thinking that the one good thing that could come of this would be the abolishment of that wretched Equipment logo. For the love of God, go back to the shield by itself on the uniforms.

We should be so lucky.

Then again, I could start buying jerseys again if they do that, so maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing.

As for whether the NHL changing their logo would affect the NFL's decision on whether or not to change theirs, I'm not sure honestly. I agree, if I were in charge of NFL marketing I wouldn't look to NHL for anything. However, if the idea to change to the logo came up, I could see a conversation like this happening;

guy 1) You know, it's about time we updated the logo.

guy 2) Yeah, but it's kind of classic. Some people may be upset if we change it.

guy 1) Eh, the NHL changed theirs after 88 years, we can get away with it.

You forgot the last line:

guy 2) Yeah, but that's the minors.

[whitedawg22]

I can't find any pictures on the web, but in its first years, the number font for the Dolphins was a very fat block style. There were very small holes in the 8's, 4's, 9's and 6's. Don't remember what the zeros looked like.

This led to an interesting scene in their first two Super Bowls. I think Griese and Csonka (and almost surely some others) wore the older "fat-number" jerseys, which also omitted sleeve stripes. Others (Morris for sure) had thinner numerals, and Packer/Buckeye-style sleeve stripes. Always looked weird when Csonka and Morris were together in the backfirld.

By the Houston SB vs. Minnesota, I think they all were wearing the newer design. (I could go back and check photos, but it's getting late out here, and I'm too tired to look them up.

Here's a photo of Larry Little leading Csonka through a hole in SB VII (against the Redskins). You can see the contrast - Little is wearing a thin numbers and sleeve stripes jersey, while Csonka is wearing a fat numbers and no stripes jersey.

[Braden]

I really hope the Dolphins don't change anything but the uniforms. The team's identity still looks modern despite being a decade old. Personally, I like the unis, but I understand why some people don't like it.

As for the Chargers, they also have a very good identity, but the bolt logo isn't strong enough to be a primary logo of the team, especially when put on a white background. If they can manage to make a new one without changing the team identity then they're fine.

The NFL logo is a nice logo. I hope the NHL didn't influence them on having their logo changed. The NHL modernized their logo because they're trying to show that it's a new game in general. The NFL doesn't need that kind of change.

[EJ_Barlik]

Having posted a somewhat-maligned powder blue update for the Chargers, it seems to me that there are good points for both sides of the debate. Personally, I think using the lighning bolt as something of a joust weapon would do the concept justice, incorporating a bit of the classic with the modern. I'm not a graphic artist, so I have no good idea on how to make it work, however. The bolts on the helmets are a classic. If you see the curved bolt on dark blue, it screams Chargers. You don't want to lose that. Thus, switching the bolt to the electric yellow would only serve to enhance it. Then, of course, you have to go to the white outline around the bolt. Now, as for the powder blues, one idea you could play with is a deal similar to how the Bucs use the orange to highlight the numbers: White with the orange and black on a red uniform. For the Chargers, that would make it white, with the powder blue and the electric yellow on the dark blue jersey. And for the white jersey, you go in reverse: Dark blue numbers, yellow and then powder blue accent outlines. (Can anybody do a decent mockup of this for me???)

As for the Dolphins, the "flying dolphin with football" seems to be the best logo in their history (IMO). I'd like to see them work with that, except maybe lose the helmet on the dolphin. Another way to go would be to somehow incorporate the top fin of the dolphin as an "h" in a sleek kind of Dolphin logo (but then, this might be best served as a wordmark....).

The NFL logo screams tradition. And that's a good thing. Taking a nod from Coca-Cola, you learn that no matter what you want to market, you keep the ribbon. It's immediately identify-able, anywhere in the world. The NFL needs to make sure any re-design is immediately unique and identify-able anywhere in the world, especially with NFL Europa and the foreign games in pre-season and now in London (and soon Germany and Canada) during the regular season. If you're going to update, you have to make it a "global" logo. The idea of a UPS-style update is kinda cool, but I think keeping the shield style might be limiting, in a manner of speaking. Not that I like the new AFL logo (Arena Football League, for those in Rio Linda), but it at least has a sense of motion. If the NFL changes, any kind of "motion" would not be such a bad way to go, but agin, can't lose the identity. Take a look at the Rose Bowl logos and the Super Bowl logos for the Pasedena games - the Rose may have changed, but it's a classic. You know immediately you're in the Rose Bowl. So, the task at hand is to modernize and keep the identity. Therefore, making it a 3-D version of the current logo is out. That doesn't say anything new. Having said that, I would like to see the font updated slightly with a more "space age" font that carries forward some elements of the old sytle lettering. If you can do that, you've got my vote for the change - otherwise, just keep it.

Oh, and 1 more thing. Having partial stars on the shield is genius. It tells us the football is on top of the stars (DUH).

I think 1 primary reason the NFL shield is Red/White/Blue, is because of our great country. Going global opens it up a bit in terms of colors, but I still want to see the Red/White/Blue as at least 90% of the colors in any update.

OK - my $0.02.