RARE Design

[barnesdesign]

I took a job at RARE a few months ago and just wanted to let everyone know that we finally have our web site up and running.

www.raredesign.com

Apparently it had been a while since it was up, but like I said we just redesigned it.

Anyway, just thought it might be of interest to some.

Ben

[ProvidenceRI]

Pros:

- I love it.

- Nice texture, too.

Cons:

-Lack of SEO (Flash tends to kill that.)

[ebod39]

tell Rodney that Bodamer says hello and we need to connect soon.

[rtrich11]

I hope they leave this up for a while.

[Mac the Knife]

Honestly, Ben, if anything this web site would scare me away from doing business with your company rather than draw me toward it. Why?

(1) The pics of your personnel in the "Who" section make you guys look like a bunch of D&D geeks and kids that used to get their asses kicked in high school, paired up with some road ho's found along a roadside while heading to the 7-11. Not that there's anything wrong with either (lord knows I've had me a few good road ho's in my younger days), but there's not a look of professionalism here.

If I'm a decision-maker for a company seeking an identity package that I'm going to invest my company's capital in, am I going to entrust that to a bunch of guys who don't have the professionalism to wear shirts with collars, let alone a tie or a suit?

(2) If I want music from a site, I'd much rather activate it myself, even in a Flash environment.

(3) Having submenus pop up is annoying. While looking at your client list, I found myself having to deal with the menu again and again, and finally I just said "screw it." And I'm more patient than a potential client would be, I'm sure.

Now I know I'm a stuffed shirt, but this site doesn't do what I think its intent is (i.e., get potential clients in the door). It shows general capabilities of the company - if you take enough time to look. It shows the people behind the scenes, which would be a good thing if the guys didn't look like what my old man would've called "bums." I realize designers aren't pinstripe suit guys, but that's what the guys who make decisions on identities are. They need to be "sold," and this site doesn't sell them in my opinion.

[ebod39]

I have to retort after reading your reply, your comments are so puritan I had to say something.

What does wearing a collared shirt have to do with being able to design a great identity and speak and sell it passionately to a client? Nothing. Who cares what they wear to work in, they could be in their underwear for all I care, just design great stuff. And if someones panties get in a wad because they don't look professional then they're not worth the time IMO. Who the F wears a suit to work in a design studio anyways, whaddaya think this is McMahon & Tate?

"general capabilities" hello, did you not notice that RARE has been responsible for some the best sports identities over the last 10 years. If a client takes the time to even type the address in, they'll take the time to look through the site. This isn't the yellow pages and pick the biggest ad you see. If someone is going to potentially entrust their capital in them, they'll make the time.

Pinstripes don't make the decisions anymore, design and marketing do.

The pinstripes just sign the checks.

[quantum]

I agree with the Mad Mac as to what the intent of the site is. Business wants a certain level of professionalism. Yes, most businesses understand that artists are different. However, a certain level of business professionalism still needs to be projected. The people who know of the company beforehand will look past the casualness, but not someone encountering RARE for the first time.

With this said, I don't think some potential customers will get that far. Here's why.

Flash sites come off as a 'preaching to the choir' kind of exhibition. Other design fans (and graphic houses) will appreciate its cool effects. However, many business computers are built without frills and are poorly updated by IT. Flash changes too often, and many computers don't update often enough. Under the circumstances stated, an exec cutting checks for projects will never get far enough into the site's offerings to appreciate what the design company can do for them. A better solution is to pull the customer in with more standard layout and coding, mixing in a moderate amount of flash that doesn't cloud the message.

BTW - The WHO montage has quite a few feet shots? Was this made by Quentin Tarantino? j/k Seriously, this seems to rub the casualness in the face of a more reserved person. You may want to revisit this segment and make changes.

As the design stands now, I personally find the menu interface a bit clumsy and irritating. The experience would be improved by a smoother transitioning design. Don't get me wrong, you do great work. I just think flash interfaces turn some people off.

[Mac the Knife]

I have to retort after reading your reply, your comments are so puritan I had to say something.

What does wearing a collared shirt have to do with being able to design a great identity and speak and sell it passionately to a client? Nothing. Who cares what they wear to work in, they could be in their underwear for all I care, just design great stuff. And if someones panties get in a wad because they don't look professional then they're not worth the time IMO. Who the F wears a suit to work in a design studio anyways, whaddaya think this is McMahon & Tate?

"general capabilities" hello, did you not notice that RARE has been responsible for some the best sports identities over the last 10 years. If a client takes the time to even type the address in, they'll take the time to look through the site. This isn't the yellow pages and pick the biggest ad you see. If someone is going to potentially entrust their capital in them, they'll make the time.

Pinstripes don't make the decisions anymore, design and marketing do.

The pinstripes just sign the checks.

I didn't deny they were puritan - I simply state that this is the way businesspeople think.

Did I notice that RARE was responsible for some of the best sports identities over the last 10 years? NO - until I started doing some real digging around the site... and that, friends, is exactly my point.

If you think a potential client invests more time than the average viewer of a web site, you're deluding yourself. Studies have shown that, if anything, they tend to spend less. They perceive their time as a precious resource, and one that shouldn't be wasted dinking around a web site... if they can't find what they need immediately, they move on.

Pinstripes always make the decisions. They are political animals, otherwise they wouldn't have reached the positions they have - and when you write the checks, trust me, you make the decisions (or at least approve them).

I hate that this is reality but it is: if you can't present at least 85% of what you're trying to present to your web site's audience in its index.html page, you need to reformat it - because in the case of over 80% of your visitors, that's all they will ever bother to look at. If you don't have something to grab them, and then to hold them or get them to look elsewhere within your site, they're gone. And the reality is that, in this case, there's nothing there to do that.

[Hoopskid]

The man knows what he's talking about.

However, I do like the way the site looks, great work!

[howme]

I have to retort after reading your reply, your comments are so puritan I had to say something.

What does wearing a collared shirt have to do with being able to design a great identity and speak and sell it passionately to a client? Nothing. Who cares what they wear to work in, they could be in their underwear for all I care, just design great stuff. And if someones panties get in a wad because they don't look professional then they're not worth the time IMO. Who the F wears a suit to work in a design studio anyways, whaddaya think this is McMahon & Tate?

"general capabilities" hello, did you not notice that RARE has been responsible for some the best sports identities over the last 10 years. If a client takes the time to even type the address in, they'll take the time to look through the site. This isn't the yellow pages and pick the biggest ad you see. If someone is going to potentially entrust their capital in them, they'll make the time.

Pinstripes don't make the decisions anymore, design and marketing do.

The pinstripes just sign the checks.

I didn't deny they were puritan - I simply state that this is the way businesspeople think.

Did I notice that RARE was responsible for some of the best sports identities over the last 10 years? NO - until I started doing some real digging around the site... and that, friends, is exactly my point.

If you think a potential client invests more time than the average viewer of a web site, you're deluding yourself. Studies have shown that, if anything, they tend to spend less. They perceive their time as a precious resource, and one that shouldn't be wasted dinking around a web site... if they can't find what they need immediately, they move on.

Pinstripes always make the decisions. They are political animals, otherwise they wouldn't have reached the positions they have - and when you write the checks, trust me, you make the decisions (or at least approve them).

I hate that this is reality but it is: if you can't present at least 85% of what you're trying to present to your web site's audience in its index.html page, you need to reformat it - because in the case of over 80% of your visitors, that's all they will ever bother to look at. If you don't have something to grab them, and then to hold them or get them to look elsewhere within your site, they're gone. And the reality is that, in this case, there's nothing there to do that.

Quick question Mad Mac, what do you do for a living? And do you have a site up with your work? Just wondering what your background is because it sounds as if you are presenting yourself as some kind of expert in this.

I am new to this board (as you can see im sure) and found this post to be very harsh by you and wanted to know if your experience or your background supports your opinion or if it is just that.

Not telling you to shut up, just curious how I should read into what you posted.

thanks.

[Mac the Knife]

I have to retort after reading your reply, your comments are so puritan I had to say something.

What does wearing a collared shirt have to do with being able to design a great identity and speak and sell it passionately to a client? Nothing. Who cares what they wear to work in, they could be in their underwear for all I care, just design great stuff. And if someones panties get in a wad because they don't look professional then they're not worth the time IMO. Who the F wears a suit to work in a design studio anyways, whaddaya think this is McMahon & Tate?

"general capabilities" hello, did you not notice that RARE has been responsible for some the best sports identities over the last 10 years. If a client takes the time to even type the address in, they'll take the time to look through the site. This isn't the yellow pages and pick the biggest ad you see. If someone is going to potentially entrust their capital in them, they'll make the time.

Pinstripes don't make the decisions anymore, design and marketing do.

The pinstripes just sign the checks.

I didn't deny they were puritan - I simply state that this is the way businesspeople think.

Did I notice that RARE was responsible for some of the best sports identities over the last 10 years? NO - until I started doing some real digging around the site... and that, friends, is exactly my point.

If you think a potential client invests more time than the average viewer of a web site, you're deluding yourself. Studies have shown that, if anything, they tend to spend less. They perceive their time as a precious resource, and one that shouldn't be wasted dinking around a web site... if they can't find what they need immediately, they move on.

Pinstripes always make the decisions. They are political animals, otherwise they wouldn't have reached the positions they have - and when you write the checks, trust me, you make the decisions (or at least approve them).

I hate that this is reality but it is: if you can't present at least 85% of what you're trying to present to your web site's audience in its index.html page, you need to reformat it - because in the case of over 80% of your visitors, that's all they will ever bother to look at. If you don't have something to grab them, and then to hold them or get them to look elsewhere within your site, they're gone. And the reality is that, in this case, there's nothing there to do that.

Quick question Mad Mac, what do you do for a living? And do you have a site up with your work? Just wondering what your background is because it sounds as if you are presenting yourself as some kind of expert in this.

I am new to this board (as you can see im sure) and found this post to be very harsh by you and wanted to know if your experience or your background supports your opinion or if it is just that.

Not telling you to shut up, just curious how I should read into what you posted.

thanks.

By day I have a multi-faceted business that encompasses a variety of things, one of them being media and marketing consultation - the field I began my company in 17 years ago. This has since been joined by a radio production division, a public relations firm we acquired in 1998, and various commercial real estate holdings. By night I serve as XD of a small non-profit amateur sports organization.

I'm not a designer (though I admire those who can do it), but I'm one of the 'pinstripes' that helps makes decisions on things such as this, and I know the business/consumer mindset. I don't claim to be a guru on the subject, but I know what's worked for my clients and others in the past when it comes to web design, and more importantly, I know what doesn't. Regardless of the business or industry, the statistics I mention above have bore out - generally speaking, over 80% of visitors to web sites look at one page, the index, with an average "view time" (the time spent between the completion of that index page's loading and the user's next action - typing in a URL, clicking a link, whatever) is less than 6 seconds. So simply put, you either have to have the better mousetrap (a product/service that's a "must have" item), or you have to grab your audience by the proverbial throat, giving them reason to look more into your business.

My comments aren't intended to be harsh at all - I love Ben's work in general, and this design itself is actually first-rate... from a designer's perspective. But for the reasons I've mentioned above, from a standpoint of answering that one, pivotal question: "Will this bring in new clients?," it misses the mark.

[howme]

I have to retort after reading your reply, your comments are so puritan I had to say something.

What does wearing a collared shirt have to do with being able to design a great identity and speak and sell it passionately to a client? Nothing. Who cares what they wear to work in, they could be in their underwear for all I care, just design great stuff. And if someones panties get in a wad because they don't look professional then they're not worth the time IMO. Who the F wears a suit to work in a design studio anyways, whaddaya think this is McMahon & Tate?

"general capabilities" hello, did you not notice that RARE has been responsible for some the best sports identities over the last 10 years. If a client takes the time to even type the address in, they'll take the time to look through the site. This isn't the yellow pages and pick the biggest ad you see. If someone is going to potentially entrust their capital in them, they'll make the time.

Pinstripes don't make the decisions anymore, design and marketing do.

The pinstripes just sign the checks.

I didn't deny they were puritan - I simply state that this is the way businesspeople think.

Did I notice that RARE was responsible for some of the best sports identities over the last 10 years? NO - until I started doing some real digging around the site... and that, friends, is exactly my point.

If you think a potential client invests more time than the average viewer of a web site, you're deluding yourself. Studies have shown that, if anything, they tend to spend less. They perceive their time as a precious resource, and one that shouldn't be wasted dinking around a web site... if they can't find what they need immediately, they move on.

Pinstripes always make the decisions. They are political animals, otherwise they wouldn't have reached the positions they have - and when you write the checks, trust me, you make the decisions (or at least approve them).

I hate that this is reality but it is: if you can't present at least 85% of what you're trying to present to your web site's audience in its index.html page, you need to reformat it - because in the case of over 80% of your visitors, that's all they will ever bother to look at. If you don't have something to grab them, and then to hold them or get them to look elsewhere within your site, they're gone. And the reality is that, in this case, there's nothing there to do that.

Quick question Mad Mac, what do you do for a living? And do you have a site up with your work? Just wondering what your background is because it sounds as if you are presenting yourself as some kind of expert in this.

I am new to this board (as you can see im sure) and found this post to be very harsh by you and wanted to know if your experience or your background supports your opinion or if it is just that.

Not telling you to shut up, just curious how I should read into what you posted.

thanks.

By day I have a multi-faceted business that encompasses a variety of things, one of them being media and marketing consultation - the field I began my company in 17 years ago. This has since been joined by a radio production division, a public relations firm we acquired in 1998, and various commercial real estate holdings. By night I serve as XD of a small non-profit amateur sports organization.

I'm not a designer (though I admire those who can do it), but I'm one of the 'pinstripes' that helps makes decisions on things such as this, and I know the business/consumer mindset. I don't claim to be a guru on the subject, but I know what's worked for my clients and others in the past when it comes to web design, and more importantly, I know what doesn't. Regardless of the business or industry, the statistics I mention above have bore out - generally speaking, over 80% of visitors to web sites look at one page, the index, with an average "view time" (the time spent between the completion of that index page's loading and the user's next action - typing in a URL, clicking a link, whatever) is less than 6 seconds. So simply put, you either have to have the better mousetrap (a product/service that's a "must have" item), or you have to grab your audience by the proverbial throat, giving them reason to look more into your business.

My comments aren't intended to be harsh at all - I love Ben's work in general, and this design itself is actually first-rate... from a designer's perspective. But for the reasons I've mentioned above, from a standpoint of answering that one, pivotal question: "Will this bring in new clients?," it misses the mark.

You still failed to mention your company's name or a site for it. And yes I do believe Ben's work is first rate too.

[Mac the Knife]

My business has several names, actually, depending on which element you're dealing with. None of them have web sites, as I've never had to promote my services beyond word-of-mouth (nor had a desire to "be big" as it were). Sorry to disappoint.

[KCScout76]

Ben,

Nice site - user friendly. Congrats on your move to Mississippi !!!

KCScout76

[pcgd]

Lets be honest....

Most design sites are for other designers.

Clients are getting information on a webpage, but I think for the most part, they are pretty much sold on what company they are going with before they go on the webpage. Visiting the page is just to confirm their selection or show their friends what their design company can do.

Now this is a very large generalization. I'm sure many companies get all their business based on web referals. But I'm betting that most companies use other means to get their clients in the door. Mainly, word of mouth.

[howme]

My business has several names, actually, depending on which element you're dealing with. None of them have web sites, as I've never had to promote my services beyond word-of-mouth (nor had a desire to "be big" as it were). Sorry to disappoint.

Well Mad Mac, you have proven to have no validity at all, I could say I own 15 million companies and be vague as you and it pretty much means nothing. But thank you, you answered my question of wether or not I should listen to your opinion.

[ebod39]

My business has several names, actually, depending on which element you're dealing with. None of them have web sites, as I've never had to promote my services beyond word-of-mouth (nor had a desire to "be big" as it were). Sorry to disappoint.

so you own a business known under many names and yet in this day and age have no websites for them

but are apparently an expert on what they should look like, how they should function and what people should be wearing on them? whatever.

[Mac the Knife]

I never claimed to be an expert, nor do I now. All I did was state my opinion, based on my view of the site coupled with what I know to be true about business people who view web sites when they're seeking to enter a vendor relationship - ostensibly what Rare is trying to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

My business is one where word-of-mouth advertising is king; one where a web site has historically not proven to be of much value, precisely for the reasons I've stated - its difficult to properly represent yourself in a format that is persuasive given the limited exposure you have using that medium. I don't solicit clients (they come to us), but because my business is at a point where I've reached a comfort level with our current clientel and revenue, it hardly invalidates my experience, my research, or my education in these areas.

We've tried web sites in the past, and had mixed results - landing clients, but the kind of clients we didn't want to be bothered with. Usually by the time we'd determine that a prospect that's come to us via our web site wasn't worth the hassle, we had already invested more time, effort and energy than it was worth. With word-of-mouth client prospects, they contact you, and literally within minutes you can determine if you want to do business with them. Not every business requires a web site, and in many cases they're better off without them. Ours just happens to be one.

My opinion's no more or less valid than anyone else's, and I never claimed otherwise. Take it as it is or leave it as it is. Either way, I honestly don't care.

Ben posted the site URL and others started weighing in on it, I did likewise. I like Ben and pretty much everything he's ever designed from an artistic viewpoint, and have on more than one occasion told him so on these boards or via PM. If a little constructive criticism about his company's web site is a problem for some folks (and, at least thus far, not Ben himself), that's unfortunate. Hopefully Ben understands that my comments aren't reflective of him, his talents or even those of his company - merely that if the intent of the site is to attract new business to Rare, its probably not properly equipped for that task.

[Mac the Knife]

Lets be honest....

Most design sites are for other designers.

Clients are getting information on a webpage, but I think for the most part, they are pretty much sold on what company they are going with before they go on the webpage. Visiting the page is just to confirm their selection or show their friends what their design company can do.

Now this is a very large generalization. I'm sure many companies get all their business based on web referals. But I'm betting that most companies use other means to get their clients in the door. Mainly, word of mouth.

Quite true, Pat - and in such case, the web site has one critical function: to confirm the impression that has been placed in the mind of the potential client. Hopefully its one that matches the initial impression. If it isn't, the result can be lost clients, something that should obviously be avoided.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

My business is one where word-of-mouth advertising is king; one where a web site has historically not proven to be of much value, precisely for the reasons I've stated - its difficult to properly represent yourself in a format that is persuasive given the limited exposure you have using that medium. I don't solicit clients (they come to us), but because my business is at a point where I've reached a comfort level with our current clientel and revenue, it hardly invalidates my experience, my research, or my education in these areas.

So how is the marijuana business these days?