Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[njmeadowlanders]

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/8261/time-is-right-to-explore-big-ten-expansion

Contrary to popular belief, a candidate doesn't need to be a member of the Association of American Universities or be located within the Big Ten footprint or in a bordering state. Though the schools must fit what the Big Ten looks for, "there?s no prescription that you have to have 30,000 undergrads or you have to be a major research institution," a source tells me.

So while that's probably what they'd want to sell to us, it doesn't sound like a requirement...

[rams80]

Additionally, AAU membership is merely based on invitation and a 3/4ths vote from the participating institutions. So presumably as long as Texas Tech or Florida State weren't invited, the AAU membership issues could quickly cease to become one.

[dfwabel]

Additionally, AAU membership is merely based on invitation and a 3/4ths vote from the participating institutions. So presumably as long as Texas Tech or Florida State weren't invited, the AAU membership issues could quickly cease to become one.

When I started this topic, I alluded to the fact that all 11 schools are members of the AAU, and not that it was a requirement for membership. The "source" mentioned AAU because Notre Dame is at the highest level of Carnegie classification, RU/VH: Research Universities (very high research activity). All Big Ten schools possess this classification as well.

The "suspected" schools who also have this are: Rutgers, Pitt, Iowa State, Cincinnati, Missouri, Nebraska.

Syracuse does not meet this classification.

[zmspartans]

i dont see how/why a big 12 school would want to go to the big ten . my opinion may be (and probably is) biased as i live in nebraska, but it just doesnt make sense. the level of competition has proven to be much higher in the big 12 .

[crashcarson15]

i dont see how/why a big 12 school would want to go to the big ten . my opinion may be (and probably is) biased as i live in nebraska, but it just doesnt make sense. the level of competition has proven to be much higher in the big 12 .

Zing! So if Mizzou continually gets passed over as far as the better bowl games go, they should go to the Big Ten to create more revenue from going to a better bowl game.

Also if Mizzou's pissed at the Big 12 and their revenue sharing, then leaving would be a good idea.

[rams80]

i dont see how/why a big 12 school would want to go to the big ten . my opinion may be (and probably is) biased as i live in nebraska, but it just doesnt make sense. the level of competition has proven to be much higher in the big 12 .

Look at revenues and beyond football. The conference is slowly evolving into Texas and the 11 dwarfs. The Big Ten has better revenue sharing, higher revenue PERIOD, and is not dominated by one single institution. There are old Big 8 schools that are not very happy with the current situation in the campus. Add in the academic prestige of being affiliated with these large research institutions, and suddenly the Big XII does not appear to be far superior to the Big Ten.

I would class this as unlikely, but Nebraska has apparently frequently come off the worst in challenging Texas over the direction of the Conference and doesn't have THAT much tying it to the Big XII outside of tradition. What bitter rivalry is there precisely to tie Nebraska to the Conference? Oklahoma used to be THE rivalry, but the short-sighted Big XII scheduling setup shot that one in the face. Nebraska-Kansas and Nebraska-Missouri has been very unbalanced historically to the point that well...I don't think of it as a rivalry in the traditional sense. Kansas State might have gotten it going in the late-90s and early 2000s, but then Bill Callahan and Ron Prince happened. Colorado is the closest thing Nebraska has to a division rival, and that is both a recent development and more a rivalry on Colorado's end than Nebraska's.

While I highly doubt Nebraska would be invited to, or accept a proposal to join the Big Ten, I wouldn't completely rule it out either in light of those factors. I think the biggest issue would be whether or not Nebraska thinks they can still recruit in Texas if they bail on the Big XII.

[dfwabel]

i dont see how/why a big 12 school would want to go to the big ten . my opinion may be (and probably is) biased as i live in nebraska, but it just doesnt make sense. the level of competition has proven to be much higher in the big 12 .

Look at revenues and beyond football. The conference is slowly evolving into Texas and the 11 dwarfs. The Big Ten has better revenue sharing, higher revenue PERIOD, and is not dominated by one single institution. There are old Big 8 schools that are not very happy with the current situation in the campus. Add in the academic prestige of being affiliated with these large research institutions, and suddenly the Big XII does not appear to be far superior to the Big Ten.

I would class this as unlikely, but Nebraska has apparently frequently come off the worst in challenging Texas over the direction of the Conference and doesn't have THAT much tying it to the Big XII outside of tradition. What bitter rivalry is there precisely to tie Nebraska to the Conference? Oklahoma used to be THE rivalry, but the short-sighted Big XII scheduling setup shot that one in the face. Nebraska-Kansas and Nebraska-Missouri has been very unbalanced historically to the point that well...I don't think of it as a rivalry in the traditional sense. Kansas State might have gotten it going in the late-90s and early 2000s, but then Bill Callahan and Ron Prince happened. Colorado is the closest thing Nebraska has to a division rival, and that is both a recent development and more a rivalry on Colorado's end than Nebraska's.

While I highly doubt Nebraska would be invited to, or accept a proposal to join the Big Ten, I wouldn't completely rule it out either in light of those factors. I think the biggest issue would be whether or not Nebraska thinks they can still recruit in Texas if they bail on the Big XII.

Come on! From the other thread, you would think you would remember that research dollars NEVER compare to the revenue seen from an athletic program!

[rams80]

No they wouldn't. Which means there is even more incentive to confederate with the Big Ten. Especially since the other popular source of research dollars (undergraduate tuition) is slightly less at Nebraska compared to other large state schools.

[Herk]

Another question: Will the Big Ten change their name? Or will they shoehorn a "12" into the logo? What names could be used?

Big Midwest Conference

Great 12 Conference

The Western Conference

Big North Conference

The Northern Conference

Anything?

If the Atlantic 10 can have 14 teams and still be called as such, I am pretty sure the Big 10 will have no quoms keeping the name with 12 teams.

[infrared41]

Plus a Big Ten Championship game from Soldier Field would be awesome.

Too small, too outdoors. That thing is locked in Indy, with perhaps an occasional token gesture in Detroit.

Considering The University of Michigan is all of about 20-30 minutes west of Detroit on I-94 I think Ford Field will be more than just a "token gesture." My guess is if it is always an indoor game then it would alternate between the two. The Metrodome could be in play as well. But, early December is still very reasonable for football in these parts so an outdoor game isn't at all out of the question. That could put Soldier Field, Browns Stadium, Heinz Field, and Paul Brown Stadium into the mix as well.

[logodawg]

Notre Dame may not want to admit it, but I think they might need the Big Ten to stay relevant.

[infrared41]

Notre Dame may not want to admit it, but I think they might need the Big Ten to stay relevant.

I agree because if I had my choice of who to pick as the 12th team I'd take Pitt. They're better. Notre Dame is Michigan State with different uniforms and less hope.

[HedleyLamarr]

If Notre Dame were to ever join a conference in football, the Big Ten would make the most sense. West Virginia would be a good fit as well, but I don't see them in the AAU membership list. I never knew about that requirement until this thread.

Another team would give the big ten 12 teams and a conference championship game. Here's how I can see the divisions shaking out if Notre Dame were to join:

West

Illinois

Iowa

Minnesota

Northwestern

Notre Dame

Wisconsin

East

Indiana

Michigan

Michigan State

Ohio State

Penn State

Purdue

I could see the Big Ten dividing their divisions like the ACC did: With no geographical ties at all. I would think that the conference would salivate over the chance of Michigan and Ohio State meeting in their conference championship game. Plus, there's so many rivalry games within the conference, they might need to resort to maintaining their rivalry games first, then deciding their divisions to where the most of these games are kept intact.

[dfwabel]

Plus a Big Ten Championship game from Soldier Field would be awesome.

Too small, too outdoors. That thing is locked in Indy, with perhaps an occasional token gesture in Detroit.

Considering The University of Michigan is all of about 20-30 minutes west of Detroit on I-94 I think Ford Field will be more than just a "token gesture." My guess is if it is always an indoor game then it would alternate between the two. The Metrodome could be in play as well. But, early December is still very reasonable for football in these parts so an outdoor game isn't at all out of the question. That could put Soldier Field, Browns Stadium, Heinz Field, and Paul Brown Stadium into the mix as well.

Even if Pitt is the choice (which I think it should not be), Heinz Field will be hard to have a game at. The Big Ten will move to add permanent BYE week effective in 2010, thus allowing for a game following Thanksgiving. The WPIAL title games are held there and that may be too much impact on the grass without the possibility of reseeding or replacing it that late in the year.

[Sport]

I can guarantee that a Big Ten Championship game in Lucas Oil Stadium would sell out. I've long wanted a 12th team for the Big ten because I'm envious of what the Big 12 and SEC have and it'd be more interesting to have division rivals rather than just big ten rivals.

I could see the Big Ten dividing their divisions like the ACC did: With no geographical ties at all. I would think that the conference would salivate over the chance of Michigan and Ohio State meeting in their conference championship game. Plus, there's so many rivalry games within the conference, they might need to resort to maintaining their rivalry games first, then deciding their divisions to where the most of these games are kept intact.

I'm very intrigued at how the different possible additions would affect the divisional lineups and I'm beginning to like the idea of Missouri making the jump. They just sound like a big ten team, but I could live with Pittsburgh being in the conference as well. They would make Penn State's inclusion in the conference more sensible. The Big Ten's teams are certainly close enough where the divisions don't have to fall on geographic ties, but let's see how it would work if they did first.

If we go with Missouri/Iowa State/Notre Dame then the divisions would likely be,

West: Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, Miss/ISU/ND, Northwestern, Wisconsin

East: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue

if Pitt (or another more eastern team such as West Virginia or Syracuse) joins then things become a bit more complicated. You'd put PIttsburgh into the east of course, but you don't want to split traditional rivalries into separate divisons. So either Purdue and Indiana are both in the east or they're both in the west. With Pitt in the east you could move Mich. St. to the west, but that would split up their rivalry with Michigan. My solution is this,

West: Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue, Wisconsin

East: Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Penn State, Pittsburgh

Problem with this is that the Western division is unbelievably weak. The conference champion would come out of the east more often than not, so...

we could try going with a North/South Model

North: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Mich St. Michigan, Iowa, Northwestern

South: Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Pittsburgh, Penn State, Illinois

but that splits up Ohio State-Michigan. This means that they could meet twice in some season in the championship game. I don't know if that's a bad thing or if any other conferences have two big rivals split against each other. Personally, I like that OSU and Michigan meet only once per year.

In any scenario, that western division looks awfully weak. The Big XII north looks strong compared to that. Perhaps the Big Ten doesn't even organize into divisons and instead pits the two best teams against one another in the championship game? Or they could go the ACC route and have the divisons make no sense whatsoever. Atlantic and Coastal? Aren't those the same things?

I guess it doesn't matter if rivals are split up. The schedulers give the team 5 games every year against their divisional opponents, then a primary opponent in the other division that they play every year and then two other games against revolving teams from the other division. So even if your biggest rival is in the other division, you can still play them every season.

I also want to see Michigan fall into the eastern division so that by singing the last line of their fight song their fans appear misinformed.

this is now the longest post in my history on the CCSLC. Thank you.

Edited December 16, 2009 by McCarthy

[Burmy]

^The problem with both your proposals is that they'd split Northwestern and Illinois (I think they want to maintain their rivalry)

[Sport]

^The problem with both your proposals is that they'd split Northwestern and Illinois (I think they want to maintain their rivalry)

So then what are our main rivalries here?

Ohio State-Michigan

Michigan State-Michigan

Indiana-Purdue

Minnesota-Wisconsin

Minnesota-Michigan?

NorthWestern-Illinois

so we'll go the ACC route and abandon geographical ties to the divisions (and name them after key founders of the conference) then we'd have

Division #1

Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Purdue, Indiana

Division #2

Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern, Illinois, *New Team*

Ohio State-Illinois and Minnesota-Michigan are two games that both involve a trophy. These could be made the primary out of division opponents for all 4 teams. How about that?

[rams80]

I came up with a suggested alignment for the Big Ten about a year ago assuming Notre Dame came in. The schedule would be based on the SEC system, with 2 divisions and 1 protected out of division opponent. My priorities were 1) Split up Michigan and Ohio State 2) Preserve rivalries, especially trophy games when possible 3) Try to balance the divisions as much as possible

alignment (protected rivals across from each other)

North - South

Michigan - Ohio State

Michigan State - Indiana

Notre Dame - Purdue

Minnesota - Penn State

Iowa - Illinois

Wisconsin - Northwestern

Since the Land Grant rivalry has become somewhat significant, I guess we could have the MSU athletic department sell the Brass Spitoon to Minnesota swap protected rivals with the Gophers. In other words, Michigan State would play Penn State annually, and Minnesota would play Indiana.

[STL FANATIC]

^The problem with both your proposals is that they'd split Northwestern and Illinois (I think they want to maintain their rivalry)

This is not a real rivalry.

This is a matchup between two schools in the same state. But it's not a rivalry worth maintaining if it stands in the way of other beneficial things.

At least that's my opinion as an Illinois student (and near alumn).

And that's not because the match-ups are lopsided. We generally beat them in basketball, but we don't always. And we should probably beat them frequently in football, but my experience is we rarely, rarely do. It's balanced. But nobody really cares (more than any other game), that's all.

[Jamikel]

Notre Dame may not want to admit it, but I think they might need the Big Ten to stay relevant.

I really don't think Notre Dame is going to be concerned with being relevant on the football field as long as they can continue selling mediocrity to the public. Most schools have a financial incentive for wanting to improve their football teams; not so for Notre Dame. Sure, it may piss off their fans and lead to a new coaching hire every 3-4 years, but until they lose their TV contract or BCS tie-in, why should they want to join the Big Ten?