gueman Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Ok so every now and then there is a post about a HS stealing the logo of a pro team. But I have never seen an explanation of how the Belleville Bulls were able to use the Schlitz Malt Liquor Logo. How did this happen? Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P. J. O'Rourke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Well...to begin with, while they are illustrating a bull in a similar pose, the two logos look to be rather different in the not-so-subtle and basic details. Beyond one possibly loosely inspiring the other, there is no logo ripoff here. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Beyond the fairly generic aggressive pose, yeah there's not a lot of similarity to be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewharrington Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 I don't know what sort of rose-colored glasses you guys are looking at this with, but this would definitely hold up in court as copyright infringement. The two bulls, aside from color and minor proportional differences, are much too similar. A good rule of thumb is to plug one in for the other. Could the average Joe notice a difference? If not, then the images are probably too similar. In this case, color the Belleville logo black and blue and throw it on the Schlitz bottle, few, if any, would notice. I still don't have a website, but I have a dribbble now! http://dribbble.com/andyharry [The postings on this site are my own and do not necessarily represent the position, strategy or opinions of adidas and/or its brands.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 I don't know what sort of rose-colored glasses you guys are looking at this with, but this would definitely hold up in court as copyright infringement. The two bulls, aside from color and minor proportional differences, are much too similar. A good rule of thumb is to plug one in for the other. Could the average Joe notice a difference? If not, then the images are probably too similar. In this case, color the Belleville logo black and blue and throw it on the Schlitz bottle, few, if any, would notice.By that same logic, Louisville rips off Illinois State. The tail's different, the entire bloody forebody is drawn differently, the rest of the Schlitz bull is....fatter...for lack of a better word, the ears are different, and pretty much the rest of the bodies are drawn differently as well.Oh and to cap all of this off, Belleville hasn't used that logo since 1998, and if that brand post-dates the general Schlitz re-introduction, that logo dates to 2008. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewG70 Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 This thread is a bunch of...Never mind. The (unofficial) NHL Uniform DatabaseThe WHA Uniform Database Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMac12 Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Well, whoever thought of this must of been drunk.Yes, they look too similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 the current Bulls logo... "I don't understand where you got this idea so deeply ingrained in your head (that this world) is something that you must impress, cause I couldn't care less"http://keepdcunited.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 OK...here's what I think happened. In both cases the designers were instructed to produce a design of a realistic-looking bull standing in said aggressively menacing manner. The fact that the outcomes appear similar on the surface is not surprising, based on the fact that there's only so many ways you can do "realistic-looking bull standing in said aggressively menacing manner".I would not say either rips off the other, just that both were born from roughly the same design requirements. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gueman Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 It does not matter what they are using as a primary now. The team still uses the Bull logo to generate revenue. I have a Bulls throwback jersey that my mother in law who lives in Belleville gave me for Christmas this year. And it has the Bull logo. It is the most popular logo the team uses, the cartoon bull, is not as loved as the "Schlitz Bull" as it is even called in Belleville. When I wear the jersey here in the Mid Atlantic everyone would comment on it as the Schlitz Malt Liquor Bull, not that they know a rats ass about the OHL, so that becomes a branding issue. If I were a team I would want a logo that was unique and could not be confused with another product. There is not a copywright infringement judge that would not rule that the Bulls violated the copyright of the beer company. The Schlitz Malt Liquor Bull dates back to1963. Well before the Belleville Bulls. Even if the brand was in decline, it never went out of production. So there has to be a better reason why the team is able to use the logo. Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P. J. O'Rourke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddball Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 In my limited research, I didn't find any trademark on the Schlitz bull. Yes, there are distinct qualities that you can say one influenced the other, but also understand that it's not trademark infringement unless someone brings a suit against another party. For all we know Schlitz/Pabst looked the other way as they saw this as free marketing for them. Of course this could also be like the Oregon Ducks/Arizona Sun Devils whose logos look very Disney-like because they were designed by Disney artists. It could be that both these bulls were designed by the same guy, therefore they look the same. Find the artist and you'll find the issue. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gueman Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 In my limited research, I didn't find any trademark on the Schlitz bull. Yes, there are distinct qualities that you can say one influenced the other, but also understand that it's not trademark infringement unless someone brings a suit against another party. For all we know Schlitz/Pabst looked the other way as they saw this as free marketing for them. Of course this could also be like the Oregon Ducks/Arizona Sun Devils whose logos look very Disney-like because they were designed by Disney artists. It could be that both these bulls were designed by the same guy, therefore they look the same. Find the artist and you'll find the issue.Well I think you may have provided the most logical answer, in '82 the brand was almost non existent in the US let alone Canada. Also there were ownership changes at that time Strohs to Pabst to Miller. So it might very well be a case of they either over looked it or did not care. I was hoping some one knew for sure. Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P. J. O'Rourke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 I have seen the the Schlitz Malt Liquor Bull appropriated several times -- mostly in silouette -- by sports teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illwauk Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Not to drag this off topic, but I never did understand the logic behind the old Schlitz ads: " " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillz Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 They're similar but not identical. It's just like how GNC uses a wordmark almost identical to GMC. It's just like how various sports teams named "Eagles" all have similar looking logos. Is it "inspired?" Probably. Is the pose near identical? Yes. But at the end of the day, the two logos are different and that's what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friarcanuck Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I've been reading this thread and all I keep thinking is...BULL POWER! BULL S:censored:! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 They're similar but not identical. It's just like how GNC uses a wordmark almost identical to GMC. It's just like how various sports teams named "Eagles" all have similar looking logos. Is it "inspired?" Probably. Is the pose near identical? Yes. But at the end of the day, the two logos are different and that's what matters.Not offering an opinion on this specific case, but that statement is wrong. The logos don't need to be identical to infringe. What you're saying is the equivalent of the mythical "(fill in a number)% rule" where you can use somebody else's trademarked logo and change x percentage of it, making it yours."Similar but not identical" is not good enough to win a lawsuit. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelayedPenalty Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Might be easier to pick out similarities if they're the same color. Schlitz Red Bull vs. a Belleville alternate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelayedPenalty Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 While the similarities are obvious I can't find any part of the logos that are identical. The stance, while similar has been altered. The positioning of the front legs and tail are moved. The detail of the musculature of the bull are different. The area of the most similarity is the head, but honestly, draw the head of a bull (minus all the detail) and see what it comes out looking like.Has the question of which logo was around first been addressed? Or are we assuming that Belleville ripped of Schlitz? That Belleville logo was in use in the 1981-82 season according to Mr. Creamer's site. When was the Sclitz version introduced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiasco! Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I can't believe no one is noticing the obvious fact that the Belleville logo is a Live-Traced® version of the Schlitz logo. LinkedIn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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