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St. Louis Blues Colors


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#1 ddub53

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Posted August 12, 2011 - 00:18

Hopefully someone can explain this. I have an official NHL logo sheet from 1992. It lists the St. louis Blues; Blue as PMS 287. The current Blues logo also uses PMS 287. But if you look at the Blue in the jerseys from that era and today, they are a different shade of Blue (not includig Navy Blue). Even the printed logos from the 90's and today look like different shades. Anyone have any answers.
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#2 oddball

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Posted August 12, 2011 - 01:42

Hopefully someone can explain this. I have an official NHL logo sheet from 1992. It lists the St. louis Blues; Blue as PMS 287. The current Blues logo also uses PMS 287. But if you look at the Blue in the jerseys from that era and today, they are a different shade of Blue (not includig Navy Blue). Even the printed logos from the 90's and today look like different shades. Anyone have any answers.


Fabrics are different than PMS and change over the years. Also the colors used on the jersey will alter the eye's perception of a color darker or lighter depending on the colors used. Since the early jersey is using red, white, and yellow which are bright colors, the blue will appear brighter than the current jersey which has accents of navy blue with the yellow and white. I deal with this issue daily as a graphic designer and have to at times explain why a yellow looks darker on a black background than it does on a white background.
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#3 the admiral

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Posted August 12, 2011 - 01:43

The Blues used a deeper blue in the red/yellow/blue era. They lightened it for the circa '98 third that became the regular set.

#4 ColorWerx

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Posted August 12, 2011 - 11:45

The official Pantone color for the Blues' primary Blue is and always has been 287 C. Here are the current color specs:

Posted Image

It's been that way since the expansion years, through the Blue, Gold and Red era, and continues today. Any differences you see have to do with different fabric matches, photography lighting, or my "favorite" reason - bad Illustrator or Photoshop color reproduction. Older swatch libraries in Illustrator produce this color as a light Blue...which is very, very wrong.

#5 ColorWerx

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Posted August 12, 2011 - 11:49

Oh and I should mention - look at the thread regarding the new Central Connecticut State U. athletic marks. Those logos are also using 287 C, yet the poor raster versions that the school is displaying render the Blue as a semi-light Royal.

This stuff makes me crazy, and it is my obligation to the world to fix it (!).

#6 Blackjack76

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Posted August 12, 2011 - 13:32

Oh and I should mention - look at the thread regarding the new Central Connecticut State U. athletic marks. Those logos are also using 287 C, yet the poor raster versions that the school is displaying render the Blue as a semi-light Royal.

This stuff makes me crazy, and it is my obligation to the world to fix it (!).


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#7 TornadoGTS

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Posted August 12, 2011 - 13:50

The official Pantone color for the Blues' primary Blue is and always has been 287 C. Here are the current color specs:

Posted Image

It's been that way since the expansion years, through the Blue, Gold and Red era, and continues today. Any differences you see have to do with different fabric matches, photography lighting, or my "favorite" reason - bad Illustrator or Photoshop color reproduction. Older swatch libraries in Illustrator produce this color as a light Blue...which is very, very wrong.


What program is that? I would love to get my hands on it, I'm a Pantone/color freak as well, for some reason love working with that stuff.

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#8 ColorWerx

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Posted August 12, 2011 - 14:19

What program is that? I would love to get my hands on it, I'm a Pantone/color freak as well, for some reason love working with that stuff.


It's an MS Access app that I built.

#9 TornadoGTS

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Posted August 12, 2011 - 14:39


What program is that? I would love to get my hands on it, I'm a Pantone/color freak as well, for some reason love working with that stuff.


It's an MS Access app that I built.


Damn your good. Is there anyway I could get a copy of that? No problem if not, I understand that you made it yourself. I wish I could be like your apprentice though, I'm fascinated by all this stuff lol. Ever since I started getting into this stuff, whenever I see anything that has to do with a sports team like clothing, signs, etc., I always ask myself, "I wonder if they used the right/exact color?" lol.

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No because when the Irish came to Ireland and first came in contact with the leprechaun people, they didn't take their land away and force them to move west. Instead, the two groups learned to assimilate peacefully. However, certain tribes of the leprechaun refused to taint the pure blood and moved north into the forests of Ireland, only to be seen rarely, usually at the same time of a rainbows appearance and occasionally at the factories of Lucky Charms.

 


#10 McCall

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Posted August 12, 2011 - 15:57


What program is that? I would love to get my hands on it, I'm a Pantone/color freak as well, for some reason love working with that stuff.


It's an MS Access app that I built.

I see that it says Coated. When using Illustrator is it better to use the color book process to something or other coated or matte?

#11 ColorWerx

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Posted August 13, 2011 - 09:46

Damn your good. Is there anyway I could get a copy of that? No problem if not, I understand that you made it yourself. I wish I could be like your apprentice though, I'm fascinated by all this stuff lol. Ever since I started getting into this stuff, whenever I see anything that has to do with a sports team like clothing, signs, etc., I always ask myself, "I wonder if they used the right/exact color?" lol.


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If you're really into this stuff and want to learn more, go ahead and email me...I'd be glad to talk to you about it.

I see that it says Coated. When using Illustrator is it better to use the color book process to something or other coated or matte?


I'll try to address this issue later...got lots to do today, but I'll put some stuff together to explain it all...

#12 ddub53

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Posted August 13, 2011 - 10:38

The official Pantone color for the Blues' primary Blue is and always has been 287 C. Here are the current color specs:

Posted Image

It's been that way since the expansion years, through the Blue, Gold and Red era, and continues today. Any differences you see have to do with different fabric matches, photography lighting, or my "favorite" reason - bad Illustrator or Photoshop color reproduction. Older swatch libraries in Illustrator produce this color as a light Blue...which is very, very wrong.


Now you say they have had they same blue since the expansions years. How long has Pantone color codes been used by not only NHL teams, but the other major sports leagues as well?
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#13 the admiral

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Posted August 13, 2011 - 11:15

Far be it from me to challenge Pantone, but

Posted ImagePosted Image

these look like two different shades of blue to me well beyond the photographic-situational margin of error. I mean, you can say that their official color has always been the same blue, but I don't think they always wore the same blue.

#14 BringBackTheVet

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Posted August 13, 2011 - 11:20

They look extremely similar to me, taking into account the margin-of-error you referenced due to the fabrics and lighting. I think those two shots actually prove what Oddball is saying about how the accompanying colors can make the main color appear lighter or darker when in fact it's the same (or negligibly different.)

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#15 the admiral

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Posted August 13, 2011 - 11:22

Could just be my highly untrustworthy laptop monitor, then. Also, NHLuniforms has reliably rendered the Blues' sweaters as having changed for as long as I can remember:

Posted ImagePosted Image

so if that's an error on his part maybe I've just internalized that error.


Love the sweaters on the left, incidentally.



#16 NorthStar74

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Posted August 13, 2011 - 11:58

The official Pantone color for the Blues' primary Blue is and always has been 287 C. Here are the current color specs:

Posted Image

It's been that way since the expansion years, through the Blue, Gold and Red era, and continues today. Any differences you see have to do with different fabric matches, photography lighting, or my "favorite" reason - bad Illustrator or Photoshop color reproduction. Older swatch libraries in Illustrator produce this color as a light Blue...which is very, very wrong.


That one I wonder can that be used for Photoshop or do I need a different program for that?? Been wondering about playing around with colors for some things and etc.. hmm cool pic for the explanations of the specific Blues colors...
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#17 BringBackTheVet

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Posted August 13, 2011 - 14:03

Could just be my highly untrustworthy laptop monitor, then. Also, NHLuniforms has reliably rendered the Blues' sweaters as having changed for as long as I can remember:

Posted ImagePosted Image

so if that's an error on his part maybe I've just internalized that error.


Love the sweaters on the left, incidentally.



I really think the sweaters on the right are inaccurately depicted there. That blue looks closer to the late Thrashers blue or current Jets secondary blue (a little darker than both though) as opposed to what they actually used. I'm not sure if they go through the trouble of getting the actual color formulas when they make these unis for that site. The color on the right may have been chosen just to add more contrast between the royal and navy, as it never seems to look as good in digital as it does in real life.

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#18 oddball

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Posted August 13, 2011 - 15:18

Far be it from me to challenge Pantone, but

Posted ImagePosted Image

these look like two different shades of blue to me well beyond the photographic-situational margin of error. I mean, you can say that their official color has always been the same blue, but I don't think they always wore the same blue.


The lights in the building, the direction the photo was taken, the year is was taken, the camera and the settings on the camera it was taken all contribute to differences in what you see in a picture. You can clearly see in the second picture that it has been exposed to more light that the first one of Brett Hull. Look at the direction and where the picture was taken. The shot of Hull is from above somewhere, the shot of MacInnis is clearly on the ice and the use of the flash, plus the ice reflecting the flash clearly is causing the colors to be washed out. I'm not saying it's not a different shade caused by different fabrics used, but to say that photography could not be the cause of the colors, tells me you have no clue about photography at all. If you look at the second picture you can see the graininess showing that the picture has been tweaked in Photoshop or something like that or that the photo has been over-exposed. Those are clear signs.
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#19 ColorWerx

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Posted August 13, 2011 - 18:56

Lots of questions here...and I don't have the time to address all of them tonight. I'll try to put it all together tomorrow.

The official color - in print mind you - has been and always has been 287 C. Certainly there may have been some fabric/textile changes over the years, and admittedly I do not have all of those textile changes.

NHLUniforms.com - a great resource, and Andrew does a terrific job with it - but not all of the colors are depicted accurately.