Viper

Say it ain't so, Joe

2,657 posts in this topic

This story has been mentioned in the college football thread, but considering how much bigger and uglier this is likely to get, and how it threatens to drag down no less a figure than Joe Paterno, it deserves its own thread.

From College Football Talk (my emphasis added):

The scandal involving the alleged sexual abuse of children at the hands of a former Penn State assistant coach is quickly roiling to a boil.

Jerry Sandusky, the one-time heir apparent to Joe Paterno as the Nittany Lions, was indicted Friday on 40 counts related to the sexual abuse of minors. Two top university officials, including current athletic director Tim Curley, have been charged with perjury and failure to report suspected sex abuse related to the Sandusky case. The calls for Joe Paterno ?to be dismissed in the clean sweep that must follow? are growing louder by the minute.

Now, a Pennsylvania lawmaker is rightly calling for a probe into the actions ? or inaction, as the case may be ? undertaken by top university officials.

This, to put it mildly, is not good.

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I found this article interesting (I didn't read the indictment, nor do I know all of the details that have come out)

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/133308693.html

there's a big difference between being not guilty and being innocent.

Paterno seems to have done the correct thing, which is to report the incident when he found out about it - but he didn't do the right thing, which would be to follow up on it, despite his relationship with Sandusky. He certainly wields the power and influence to get the situation investigated and taken care of, yet chose not to (or just forgot about it - who knows with him at this point.)

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Jerry Sandusky scandal: Deadspin

Deadspin has a surprisingly comprehensive article about the whole debacle. What I found most surprising:

It is worth noting here what Paterno did upon hearing a first-hand story from a "very upset" graduate assistant [who witnessed Sandusky and a boy, whom the assistant estimated to be about 10 years old, having sexual intercourse in the Penn State locker room showers], in the words of the report, about "Jerry Sandusky ... fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy": Paterno took no action except to tell his athletic director.

This is not good for Joe Pa at all.

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Well technically, isn't reporting up the chain of command what you're supposed to do? It gets back to what I posted - he did the "by the book" correct thing, so he's (at least legally) off the hook. However, while he technically went up the chain, ultimately he has more power and influence than those above him, so he should've gone to the authorities himself - or at least followed up with the AD.

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I may be wrong, but I believe a college head coach has to talk to his athletic director (or equivalent) before dismissing an assistant coach.

As a college football fan, I hope this isn't how Joe Paterno's coaching career comes to an end....

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I think that everyone who becomes aware of potential abuse has a moral obligation to report it to the authorities, not just your own boss. That's how we ended up with the Catholic Church's massive child-rape network; those bosses just covered it up again and again and again.

But they might not have a legal obligation to report it except to those bosses. I don't know anything about Pennsylvania law. Joe Pa might skate that way.

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I may be wrong, but I believe a college head coach has to talk to his athletic director (or equivalent) before dismissing an assistant coach.

I think Sandusky had already retired at the time of this incident. Regardless, the more details that come out in this, the more reprehensible the whole situation is sounding. Paterno, Curley, and Schultz all allegedly knew what happened, but they let this pedophile merrily go about his business as long as he kept out of Happy Valley. He was still holding overnight camps for kids at other Penn State campuses in the system as recently as 2009. But hey, out of sight, out of mind, right gentlemen? As long as he's sodomizing boys in someone else's shower, not yours.

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After something like this, Penn State's athletic department should just clean house and rebuild from scratch. Putting JoePa out to pasture is just the beginning. Whatever internal investigation remains to be done should only be to determine whether coaches and other officials are dismissed with some sort of settlement (for the innocent) or terminated for cause (for the guilty).

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Ah, I get it now. I wasn't sure why JoPa was in trouble until I realized it's a Tressel type thing. But instead of tattoos it's little boys.

I think Paterno is really old and will be done in under 5 years, and hopefully this stays away from him, and he can go out in football instead of in court.

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If the reports are true, I want him to go out in court. Again, if true, he deserves to go out in disgrace and then be remembered as an accomplice to child rape first and football coach second.

I may be wrong, but I believe a college head coach has to talk to his athletic director (or equivalent) before dismissing an assistant coach.

I think Sandusky had already retired at the time of this incident. Regardless, the more details that come out in this, the more reprehensible the whole situation is sounding. Paterno, Curley, and Schultz all allegedly knew what happened, but they let this pedophile merrily go about his business as long as he kept out of Happy Valley. He was still holding overnight camps for kids at other Penn State campuses in the system as recently as 2009. But hey, out of sight, out of mind, right gentlemen? As long as he's sodomizing boys in someone else's shower, not yours.

Same old familiar story, I'm afraid. Reprehensible in every case.

And that's why I think everyone who becomes reliably aware of such abuse has a moral obligation to call the cops, not start a cover-up.

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I think that everyone who becomes aware of potential abuse has a moral obligation to report it to the authorities, not just your own boss. That's how we ended up with the Catholic Church's massive child-rape network; those bosses just covered it up again and again and again.

But they might not have a legal obligation to report it except to those bosses. I don't know anything about Pennsylvania law. Joe Pa might skate that way.

That's kinda my point. He has too much power to simply report it and "wash his hands", though legally he's probably fine.

I may be wrong, but I believe a college head coach has to talk to his athletic director (or equivalent) before dismissing an assistant coach.

I think Sandusky had already retired at the time of this incident. Regardless, the more details that come out in this, the more reprehensible the whole situation is sounding. Paterno, Curley, and Schultz all allegedly knew what happened, but they let this pedophile merrily go about his business as long as he kept out of Happy Valley. He was still holding overnight camps for kids at other Penn State campuses in the system as recently as 2009. But hey, out of sight, out of mind, right gentlemen? As long as he's sodomizing boys in someone else's shower, not yours.

I don't follow college sports, let alone Penn State, but I can't help but keep up with some things just based on where I live. I don't know anything about his "retirement", other than it was said that he realized he wasn't going to succeed Paterno. Now it's coming out that due to the timing, it was likely that there was either an incident or something related to this scandal that lead to his abrupt resignation.

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Sandusky retired in 1999. The alleged shower sodomy occurred in 2002. Whether there were previous incidents passed up the chain of command (but never to authorities) that may have led to his retirement, well, now that may be a question worth asking.

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1320639611' post='1676564']

Sandusky retired in 1999. The alleged shower sodomy occurred in 2002. Whether there were previous incidents passed up the chain of command (but never to authorities) that may have led to his retirement, well, now that may be a question worth asking.

There was apparently a police report filed against Sandusky in 1998 alleging inappropriate contact with children. Not sure who knew about it though, but that's a heck of a coincidence.

My link

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Not really sure why people are getting down on Paterno about this. He didn't witness anything that we know of and this wasn't something that he was aware of according to what we know so far, so all he could have told the police was someone told me something that they saw about the one case in 02. Which frankly is almost worthless to the police as it's not even a witness report. Paterno did the right thing telling the AD what he'd been told. Who should be under the microscope was whomever told Paterno what they saw. Why didn't THEY go to the police as an eyewitness to the crime?

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Not really sure why people are getting down on Paterno about this. He didn't witness anything that we know of and this wasn't something that he was aware of according to what we know so far, so all he could have told the police was someone told me something that they saw about the one case in 02. Which frankly is almost worthless to the police as it's not even a witness report. Paterno did the right thing telling the AD what he'd been told. Who should be under the microscope was whomever told Paterno what they saw. Why didn't THEY go to the police as an eyewitness to the crime?

The short answer to your question is that the AD is Joe Paterno's superior in name only. Paterno is, for all intents and purposes, the real head honcho of the Penn State athletic department, meaning he's bound to take the heat for anything bad that happens on his watch.

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Not really sure why people are getting down on Paterno about this. He didn't witness anything that we know of and this wasn't something that he was aware of according to what we know so far, so all he could have told the police was someone told me something that they saw about the one case in 02. Which frankly is almost worthless to the police as it's not even a witness report. Paterno did the right thing telling the AD what he'd been told. Who should be under the microscope was whomever told Paterno what they saw. Why didn't THEY go to the police as an eyewitness to the crime?

The short answer to your question is that the AD is Joe Paterno's superior in name only. Paterno is, for all intents and purposes, the real head honcho of the Penn State athletic department, meaning he's bound to take the heat for anything bad that happens on his watch.

You know, you all may be over estimating Paterno's power. Four years ago people said the same thing about Bowden and FSU. At the end of his last year Bowden wanted to stay. FSU told him to GTFO.

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Not really sure why people are getting down on Paterno about this. He didn't witness anything that we know of and this wasn't something that he was aware of according to what we know so far, so all he could have told the police was someone told me something that they saw about the one case in 02. Which frankly is almost worthless to the police as it's not even a witness report. Paterno did the right thing telling the AD what he'd been told. Who should be under the microscope was whomever told Paterno what they saw. Why didn't THEY go to the police as an eyewitness to the crime?

The short answer to your question is that the AD is Joe Paterno's superior in name only. Paterno is, for all intents and purposes, the real head honcho of the Penn State athletic department, meaning he's bound to take the heat for anything bad that happens on his watch.

You know, you all may be over estimating Paterno's power. Four years ago people said the same thing about Bowden and FSU. At the end of his last year Bowden wanted to stay. FSU told him to GTFO.

Bingo. JoPa has more power than the average head coach, but in the end he's just the Penn State football coach. He still answers to the AD, the school president, and the chancellors of the university just like every other head coach at Penn State. He's not the head of the athletic department and he sure as hell isn't the one running the school. And to make matters even "better" for Paterno in this case it sounds like the incident in question was 3 years AFTER they'd fired the guy which means their responsibility is minimal. The true parties that bear responsibility are obviously the former coach who was the alleged deviant, and whomever witnessed it and said nothing to the police. It's the witnesses' responsibility to come forward, not 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hand parties.

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Paterno is bigger than the AD, and he's bigger than the President of the school. We're talking about a small hillbilly college town made up of a very large student population, and "townies" that probably looked up to him when they were kids. Hell - he knew the AD when he was a teenager. This isn't to paint him with a negative brush, because other than not retiring, he's done nothing but great things for the school,but "taking down" a Joe Paterno is not the kind of thing that anyone there wants to have to deal with. The shame of it is that it could all have been avoided.

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The only mistake Joe Pa could have made is not believing (being in denial somewhat) someone he was so close to could have done something so vile and so disgusting. he may have just told the AD so the AD would have looked into it and Paterno could keep his hands clean. Instead the AD swept it under the rug and now everyones reputation is in trouble.

Just think about this Sandusky has been accused of abusing eight boys, but he has run this orginization since the 70's, it is possible there are dozen of victims and that is the worst part of all. If these other victims start coming forward and it happend for 20 years while he was a coach this will not be good for any one.

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If the reports are true, I want him to go out in court. Again, if true, he deserves to go out in disgrace and then be remembered as an accomplice to child rape first and football coach second.

Absolutely. If these allegations are true and he did nothing he shouldn't be a legend in any capacity.

Actions have consequences. (or in this case inaction) If you hear anything remotely close to what reportedly happened you HAVE to go to the police.

We have too many laws already, but seeing or knowing about a crime this horrible and not reporting it to authorities should be against the law. I thought of the Casey Anthony trial fall out when a few states wanted to make laws that not reporting a child's death/disappearance was against the law...how was this not on the books already????

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