Say it ain't so, Joe

[MJWalker45]

Are the announcers required to quote Sandusky every quarter? This is like having the family over then one person keeps hinting at spilling the beans on Uncle Tiny's shading dealings then saying, "We don't talk about that stuff in mixed company".

[Viola73]

15 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

No, the coaching staff knew. At the very least, we know Paterno knew. Trying to pretend otherwise is just more cover-up in a long line of them. 

 

Don't be a Paterno. 

And where is the evidence that the coaching staff knew? The ones who McQueary  mentioned? The ones who basically made McQueary look like a snake in the grass by providing rebuttals to McQueary's 3rd hand information. Is that what you are going on? 

At most Paterno knew there was an investigation, in which the investigation found nothing to charge Sandusky....you know...the guy who is in prison for molesting kids....the real monster in this whole thing. And that's it. When told by McQueary, Paterno did what he was suppose to do. 

[Viola73]

1 minute ago, MJWalker45 said:

Are the announcers required to quote Sandusky every quarter? This is like having the family over then one person keeps hinting at spilling the beans on Uncle Tiny's shading dealings then saying, "We don't talk about that stuff in mixed company".

I think it was part of the original sanctions that the NCAA handed down.

[BBTV]

"Joe did what he was supposed to do" or "Joe reported it to his superiors" are ABSOLUTELY STUPID things to believe.  Beyond stupid.  Like... 2+2=5 stupid.  Like... science isn't a thing stupid.  HE WAS BIGGER THAN HIS GODSDAMN SUPERIORS.  HE WAS THE SUPERIOR.  HE RAN THE GODSDAM ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT AND ESSENTIALLY THE ENTIRE TOWN.  

 

JESUS CHRIST STOP IT with the "well, he reported it-  what else could he have done?"

 

Look - I think some of the vitriol in this thread is just "I hate it more than you do" "well, I can't let that guy hate it more than me so I need to hate it more" but to think that Paterno was anything less than responsible as an enabler is just absurd.  Paterno was a scumbag masquerading as an icon.  What he allowed to happen is incomprehensible.  Stop pretending that it didn't happen.

[Viola73]

4 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

"Joe did what he was supposed to do" or "Joe reported it to his superiors" are ABSOLUTELY STUPID things to believe.  Beyond stupid.  Like... 2+2=5 stupid.  Like... science isn't a thing stupid.  HE WAS BIGGER THAN HIS GODSDAMN SUPERIORS.  HE WAS THE SUPERIOR.  HE RAN THE GODSDAM ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT AND ESSENTIALLY THE ENTIRE TOWN.  

 

JESUS CHRIST STOP IT with the "well, he reported it-  what else could he have done?"

 

Look - I think some of the vitriol in this thread is just "I hate it more than you do" "well, I can't let that guy hate it more than me so I need to hate it more" but to think that Paterno was anything less than responsible as an enabler is just absurd.  Paterno was a scumbag masquerading as an icon.  What he allowed to happen is incomprehensible.  Stop pretending that it didn't happen.

I'm going to give three instances that prove Paterno was not god, like some like to think he was, and that his powers were not what you think they were.

 

1.The BOT fired Paterno. They didn't let him resign, or consulted with Paterno on how the best way for him to retire. I mean, being Paterno and being bigger than his superiors, he must have told them I am not being fired! You can't fire me, I run this town! Nope. They fired him.

 

2. If you look at a satellite image of University Park you will notice a baseball stadium just East of Beaver Stadium. That baseball stadium is for the PSU team and the minor league State College Spikes. When the plans were drawn up Paterno objected to the site for the stadium as it was used for parking for games and as an extra practice field. They built it anyway.

 

3. Part of Sandusky's retirement package included Emeritus status. Paterno objected to this to the AD as it would give Sandusky a much wider range of privileges. They gave it to him. 

 

Now, Paterno was an icon of the university. I'll give you that. He was the most recognized person associated with the university. 

But he was human, and a football coach. He was not trained to look for child abuse like Child Welfare, who by the way green lighted Sandusky to adopt. He was not trained to investigate crimes against a child, like the local and state police were but never had the evidence to put Sandusky away. 

So, if these agencies could not see what was going on with Sandusky how was Paterno suppose to have this insight beyond his training. 

 

YOU think Paterno was a god....I never did.

[Red Wolf]

I need to learn to stay out of this thread. It really frustrates and saddens me.

[BBTV]

3 hours ago, Viola73 said:

I'm going to give three instances that prove Paterno was not god, like some like to think he was, and that his powers were not what you think they were.

 

1.The BOT fired Paterno. They didn't let him resign, or consulted with Paterno on how the best way for him to retire. I mean, being Paterno and being bigger than his superiors, he must have told them I am not being fired! You can't fire me, I run this town! Nope. They fired him.

 

2. If you look at a satellite image of University Park you will notice a baseball stadium just East of Beaver Stadium. That baseball stadium is for the PSU team and the minor league State College Spikes. When the plans were drawn up Paterno objected to the site for the stadium as it was used for parking for games and as an extra practice field. They built it anyway.

 

3. Part of Sandusky's retirement package included Emeritus status. Paterno objected to this to the AD as it would give Sandusky a much wider range of privileges. They gave it to him. 

 

Now, Paterno was an icon of the university. I'll give you that. He was the most recognized person associated with the university. 

But he was human, and a football coach. He was not trained to look for child abuse like Child Welfare, who by the way green lighted Sandusky to adopt. He was not trained to investigate crimes against a child, like the local and state police were but never had the evidence to put Sandusky away. 

So, if these agencies could not see what was going on with Sandusky how was Paterno suppose to have this insight beyond his training. 

 

YOU think Paterno was a god....I never did.

 

No, Paterno was god.  I grew up in PA, and he was the epitome of everything that was good about sports.  I met him.  When he came to my high school to recruit players, it was like jesus christ himself became an actual real thing and walked in the door.  All you ever heard about was the great selfless things he did, how he kept every promise he made even if it meant the team would suffer (like playing Wally Richardson because he made a promise to him during a recruiting trip), how he declined high salaries, resisted Nike for as long as the school would tolerate foregoing that money, etc.  You can tell by the reaction that the faithful still have that he's considered god.  It's not my opinion, that's how it is / was.

 

As for your examples of how he didn't get his way, how about anything of actual consequence?  

 

1) that was the school probably realizing that they were facing the death penalty and had their hand forced.  It's true that based on record alone, he obviously deserved better, but the BOT obviously felt that he'd be exposed so they wanted to separate themselves from it ASAP, because some of them likely knew the whole time and needed to protect themselves and their money-making program.

 

2) LOL.  Yeah, hes' concerned parking.  I'm sure he was up in arms about that crushing defeat that had no consequence.

 

3) NOt sure here, but they may have figured that any less-than-ceremonious parting of ways might draw some undesired attention and eventually lead to the big lie being exposed.  Just speculation on my part, but it was made abundantly clear that this coverup was bigger than just Paterno - HOWEVER - he had the power to stop it in its tracks, DO THE RIGHT THING, and come out of it looking like even more of a god.  HE CHOSE THE EASY WAY OUT.

 

"he was not trained to look for child abuse..."

 

HE DIDN'T HAVE TO LOOK FOR IT - IT WAS TOLD TO HIM BY WITNESSES!!!  IT BASICALLY KNOCKED ON HIS DOOR AND SAID "what's up, it's me - child rape.  What you gonna do about me?"

 

 

 

However deep in the ground he is, they should put him one foot deeper.

[waltere]

@Viola73 thank you for providing us with ironclad proof of many of the points made in this thread

[Gothamite]

1 hour ago, waltere said:

@Viola73 thank you for providing us with ironclad proof of many of the points made in this thread

 

Indeed.  There is, sadly, no shortage of Paternos.  

[OnWis97]

7 hours ago, Viola73 said:

Part of Sandusky's retirement package included Emeritus status. Paterno objected to this to the AD as it would give Sandusky a much wider range of privileges. They gave it to him. 

Why did Paterno feel this way?  Did he have reason to think Sandusky was not worthy of such honors?

 

For me this is not about Paterno.  It’s about the tragedy of organizational denial and a cowardly culture of setting aside decency for terrible reasons.  Lots of people were part of it.  Paterno was one of those people.

[Gothamite]

2 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

For me this is not about Paterno.  It’s about the tragedy of organizational denial and a cowardly culture of setting aside decency for terrible reasons.  Lots of people were part of it.  Paterno was one of those people.

 

It is not only about Paterno. But he had an outsized authority at the school, so he deserves an outsized share of the blame.  He knew about the abuse, and failed to do anything.  He was uniquely positioned to stop it, but chose the football program instead.  

 

And so long as there are Paternos trying to defend him or rehabilitate his reputation, we must push back with those facts.  His name must remain an epithet for those who are willing to sacrifice others to protect their own selfish interests. 

[RichardWitham]

state penn should be forced to wear orange and black uniforms with the lion logo reversed so it's turning its back, as the the administration, coaching staff and fans did to the sandusky thing

[IceCap]

 

13 hours ago, Viola73 said:

He was not trained to look for child abuse like Child Welfare

That’s a bunk argument. You don’t need any special training to put a stop to child rape when you come across it. You merely have to be a good person. 

Paterno chose not to stop it because it would cast his football program in a negative light if it got out. He placed the prestige of Penn State football and his own personal legend above the welfare of innocent children. 

 

He was scum. As were the others who aided him in the act of covering up Sandusky’s crimes.

[BBTV]

The ironic part is that he and the program could have come out of it looking even better, for putting the program at risk by taking a stand and outing Sandusky.  He would have looked like a selfless hero (as long as it was accepted that he didn't know until he exposed it) and if there was no cover up, they could have received positive press for coming out with it before it was discovered other ways.  Sure, there would have been a finding of lack of controls in place that allowed for it to happen, but those controls likely wouldn't have existed in most places at that time anyway.

[Red Wolf]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

The ironic part is that he and the program could have come out of it looking even better, for putting the program at risk by taking a stand and outing Sandusky.  He would have looked like a selfless hero (as long as it was accepted that he didn't know until he exposed it) and if there was no cover up, they could have received positive press for coming out with it before it was discovered other ways.  Sure, there would have been a finding of lack of controls in place that allowed for it to happen, but those controls likely wouldn't have existed in most places at that time anyway.

This is the sad truth of many cover-ups. 

[Kevin W.]

17 hours ago, Viola73 said:

He was not trained to look for child abuse like Child Welfare

I wasn't aware that picking up the phone and calling the police when one of your subordinates tells you that one of your other subordinates is abusing children requires special training.

[CS85]

Viola’s back to remind us all that football is larger than some innocent kids getting raped.  

 

He is not alone. The comment sections of any related article are a carnival of ignorant human tragedies.  

[BBTV]

And it's not even about shutting down dissenting opinions.  We're talking about facts, and "right vs wrong", where in this case, it's a black-and-white decision.

 

 

If you want to debate the punishment and how that was handled, or how the firing was handled, or how you personally would have handled it, then that's fine.  There's plenty of gray area in there.  But not "what did Joe know and what should he have done" - sorry, you're arguing that the sun rises from the west.

 

[Sport]

There is no good outcome to defending Joe Paterno unless you want to people to perceive you as an insensitive conspiracy theorist and a dumbass who prioritizes amateur football over the safety of children. Just admit your football coach was probably not the greatest guy ever and move on. 

 

For the 50th time in this thread, I have a lot of sports heroes - if one of them did what Joe Paterno did they wouldn't be my sports hero anymore. 

[Sport]

On 1/1/2018 at 6:06 AM, CS85 said:

Viola’s back to remind us all that football is larger than some innocent kids getting raped.  

 

He is not alone. The comment sections of any related article are a carnival of ignorant human tragedies.  

 

I read somewhere that multiple generations of children in rust belt areas were never taught critical thinking skills because they were being prepared for lives as factory workers where thinking is actually detrimental. Those people are adults of a certain age now and for those that went through that type of schooling in Western PA where they would grow up as Penn State fans it makes a lot of sense that they are incapable of intellectualizing this situation and handling it in the proper way. They literally don't possess the faculties to think harder.