Say it ain't so, Joe

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

Luckily there aren't any sexual deviants in the arts...

I'm talking about the whole corrupt system wise guy. Leave the snark for someone else, I don't need that.

Sorry -- I couldn't help myself. I'm with you on your bigger point, and that's the scariest part. What horrific coverups are going on at other institutions?

Its all good, sorry for gettin snippy at you. And I hear you man, I'm sure there are TONS of cover ups we'll never learn about. I'm sure many aren't as bad as this, but you never know.

[nuordr]

I learned something in school a few years ago, and while I can't remember it perfectly (not sure if it was literary or historical, or both), it kinda fits here. In life, leaders either go down in scandal and corruption, or they die first. Paterno I think is basically the perfect example of this.

I think that's a bit glib.

Not every leader eventually enables pedophiles.

Enabling pedophiles i think is a scandal...

Maybe him and Paterno talked about it and Joe was under the understanding that this was over and done with. Maybe they came to a mutual understanding. Maybe Joe forgave Sandusky? Maybe we do not know all of the specifics and we should not throw stones until all the facts are laid out for everyone to see?

[JQK]

I learned something in school a few years ago, and while I can't remember it perfectly (not sure if it was literary or historical, or both), it kinda fits here. In life, leaders either go down in scandal and corruption, or they die first. Paterno I think is basically the perfect example of this.

I think that's a bit glib.

Not every leader eventually enables pedophiles.

Enabling pedophiles i think is a scandal...

Maybe him and Paterno talked about it and Joe was under the understanding that this was over and done with. Maybe they came to a mutual understanding. Maybe Joe forgave Sandusky? Maybe we do not know all of the specifics and we should not throw stones until all the facts are laid out for everyone to see?

It's not Joe's place to "forgive" anyone's baby boy fu*king... that's for the law to decide.

[DelayedPenalty]

I learned something in school a few years ago, and while I can't remember it perfectly (not sure if it was literary or historical, or both), it kinda fits here. In life, leaders either go down in scandal and corruption, or they die first. Paterno I think is basically the perfect example of this.

I think that's a bit glib.

Not every leader eventually enables pedophiles.

Enabling pedophiles i think is a scandal...

Maybe him and Paterno talked about it and Joe was under the understanding that this was over and done with. Maybe they came to a mutual understanding. Maybe Joe forgave Sandusky? Maybe we do not know all of the specifics and we should not throw stones until all the facts are laid out for everyone to see?

Failing to report sexual assault of a minor because of a "mutual understanding" with the molester is unforgivable, even criminal. But you're right, let's wait until the specifics are all laid out before we jump to conclusions.

[BBTV]

This is truly sad way to see Joe Pa go down, but it is his own fault they should have stopped it when they first found out and it would have only effected Sandusky now by covering for him they are all tarnished. This wont hurt Penn State for 10-15 years this will forever ruin the program. I predict with in five years they will become the Big Ten's punching bag and will be that for the next 20-30 years. They will essentially become Temple.

Is it possible that this doesn't forever ruin the program? While I agree that there should be a "best interests" clause that allows for sanctions even if there's no technical conference or NCAA violation, if they get away, and start anew with a new coach (for argument's sake ONLY let's say Urban Meyer) (again - just for the purposes of this discussion), new AD, new president, etc., would a recruit or their family really have reservations of signing on there? If all of the names involved in the cover-up come out and are gone, other than the horrible memories and association, would it really be that far fetched that they'd be back to having good recruiting classes relatively soon? It could be seen as an opportunity for a new administration to somehow make a positive out of everything and start programs (that wouldn't be run by pedophiles) for kids and/or donate buttloads of money to child welfare groups or something.

[nuordr]

I learned something in school a few years ago, and while I can't remember it perfectly (not sure if it was literary or historical, or both), it kinda fits here. In life, leaders either go down in scandal and corruption, or they die first. Paterno I think is basically the perfect example of this.

I think that's a bit glib.

Not every leader eventually enables pedophiles.

Enabling pedophiles i think is a scandal...

Maybe him and Paterno talked about it and Joe was under the understanding that this was over and done with. Maybe they came to a mutual understanding. Maybe Joe forgave Sandusky? Maybe we do not know all of the specifics and we should not throw stones until all the facts are laid out for everyone to see?

Failing to report sexual assault of a minor because of a "mutual understanding" with the molester is unforgivable, even criminal. But you're right, let's wait until the specifics are all laid out before we jump to conclusions.

I am against sexual predators just like everyone else, but the bottom line is the facts are still blurry and the DA is the main one to blame for failing to prosecute when he had a chance (after hearing Sandusky apologize on a recorded phone conversation to one of the boys mother).

[Cujo]

If this isn't Joe Paterno, this head coach is already out the door. So what exactly is Penn State waiting for? This story ain't gonna get any better for "The Great JoePa". (Thanks for that gem, nuordr.)

[Gothamite]

I don't think it will forever tar the school, or even the athletic department.

Once Paterno, Curley and the other crooks are all removed, Penn State can start to rebuild. The fault lies with them, not the brick and mortar.

[JQK]

I'm the other way, Goth... i think this will mark the program for years to come, and when the name "Penn State" or "Paterno" is brought up, the first thing you'll think of, before wins, National Championships, and "Linebacker U", is going to be small naked boys in the shower with a disgusting old man.

...and that doesn't scrub away.

[TampaBayEverybodyLovesRays]

I learned something in school a few years ago, and while I can't remember it perfectly (not sure if it was literary or historical, or both), it kinda fits here. In life, leaders either go down in scandal and corruption, or they die first. Paterno I think is basically the perfect example of this.

I think that's a bit glib.

Not every leader eventually enables pedophiles.

Enabling pedophiles i think is a scandal...

Maybe him and Paterno talked about it and Joe was under the understanding that this was over and done with. Maybe they came to a mutual understanding. Maybe Joe forgave Sandusky? Maybe we do not know all of the specifics and we should not throw stones until all the facts are laid out for everyone to see?

Are you kidding me? How could sexual abuse of helpless children be forgiven? They were supposedly sodomized for goodness sake.

And the thing about the DA- the DA went missing and was declared dead.

[mydogisgomez]

I find it interesting that this story broke right after Paterno broke Robinson's college wins record. The cynic in me sees this being a bit orchestrated. People knew the situation and that heads would roll, but kept it under their hat until JoPa got his record. Hope it's not true, but with everything that happened, wouln't be surprising to me.

[nuordr]

I learned something in school a few years ago, and while I can't remember it perfectly (not sure if it was literary or historical, or both), it kinda fits here. In life, leaders either go down in scandal and corruption, or they die first. Paterno I think is basically the perfect example of this.

I think that's a bit glib.

Not every leader eventually enables pedophiles.

Enabling pedophiles i think is a scandal...

Maybe him and Paterno talked about it and Joe was under the understanding that this was over and done with. Maybe they came to a mutual understanding. Maybe Joe forgave Sandusky? Maybe we do not know all of the specifics and we should not throw stones until all the facts are laid out for everyone to see?

Are you kidding me? How could sexual abuse of helpless children be forgiven? They were supposedly sodomized for goodness sake.

And the thing about the DA- the DA went missing and was declared dead.

Until it has been done to you (not you specifically) you have no clue about what is going on. I know when that idiot went and killed that whole Amish family in PA, the rest of the Amish people from that village went to his funeral. They forgave and moved on.

[Gothamite]

That's all very well and good for your family, but it is not Paterno's prerogative to forgive Sandusky.

[Milo Meningocele]

I learned something in school a few years ago, and while I can't remember it perfectly (not sure if it was literary or historical, or both), it kinda fits here. In life, leaders either go down in scandal and corruption, or they die first. Paterno I think is basically the perfect example of this.

I think that's a bit glib.

Not every leader eventually enables pedophiles.

Enabling pedophiles i think is a scandal...

Maybe him and Paterno talked about it and Joe was under the understanding that this was over and done with. Maybe they came to a mutual understanding. Maybe Joe forgave Sandusky? Maybe we do not know all of the specifics and we should not throw stones until all the facts are laid out for everyone to see?

Are you kidding me? How could sexual abuse of helpless children be forgiven? They were supposedly sodomized for goodness sake.

And the thing about the DA- the DA went missing and was declared dead.

Until it has been done to you (not you specifically) you have no clue about what is going on. I know when that idiot went and killed that whole Amish family in PA, the rest of the Amish people from that village went to his funeral. They forgave and moved on.

But had he lived, he'd most certainly have been prosecuted. It wouldn't be their call to decide against it because they'd forgiven him.

[nuordr]

That's all very well and good for your family, but it is not Paterno's prerogative to forgive Sandusky.

I completely agree and I want to APOLOGIZE To everyone on this board because I have let my frustrations get to me today. I have always loved Joe Paterno because he reminded me of my grandfather (until the last few days) and I have taken my frustrations out on the board in the wrong manner. Who I forgive has nothing to do with all of your feelings and I will only say this one more time....(General Statement) Be careful of throwing stones through someone's glass house, because you might not want them throwing those same stones through your glass house.

[TampaBayEverybodyLovesRays]

I learned something in school a few years ago, and while I can't remember it perfectly (not sure if it was literary or historical, or both), it kinda fits here. In life, leaders either go down in scandal and corruption, or they die first. Paterno I think is basically the perfect example of this.

I think that's a bit glib.

Not every leader eventually enables pedophiles.

Enabling pedophiles i think is a scandal...

Maybe him and Paterno talked about it and Joe was under the understanding that this was over and done with. Maybe they came to a mutual understanding. Maybe Joe forgave Sandusky? Maybe we do not know all of the specifics and we should not throw stones until all the facts are laid out for everyone to see?

Are you kidding me? How could sexual abuse of helpless children be forgiven? They were supposedly sodomized for goodness sake.

And the thing about the DA- the DA went missing and was declared dead.

Until it has been done to you (not you specifically) you have no clue about what is going on. I know when that idiot went and killed that whole Amish family in PA, the rest of the Amish people from that village went to his funeral. They forgave and moved on.

That is not what happened. The idiot broke into an Amish school and killed female students and then himself. The forgiveness on the Amish part stems from their strong relgious beliefs. Plus, the shooter killed himself, there would be no possible way for justice or the court of law to punish him according to Pennsylvania/society's standards. In this case, Sandusky was not punished and might have continued to perform the acts. Like the other poster said, it was not Paterno's prerogative to forgive Sandusky for raping and ruining the lives on innocent, helpless children.

[WJMorris3]

Penn State has but one option, and that is to shutter its football program for good, and the NCAA needs to bar anyone associated with the program from college athletics, period. Sorry, but when you are even accused of doing things that are claimed here, you don't deserve to be playing intercollegiate athletics.

[nuordr]

Penn State has but one option, and that is to shutter its football program for good, and the NCAA needs to bar anyone associated with the program from college athletics, period. Sorry, but when you are even accused of doing things that are claimed here, you don't deserve to be playing intercollegiate athletics.

Accused is not Convicted; they are 2 different things. OJ Was accused of killing his wife, but he was never convicted.

[WJMorris3]

Penn State has but one option, and that is to shutter its football program for good, and the NCAA needs to bar anyone associated with the program from college athletics, period. Sorry, but when you are even accused of doing things that are claimed here, you don't deserve to be playing intercollegiate athletics.

Accused is not Convicted; they are 2 different things. OJ Was accused of killing his wife, but he was never convicted.

And yet, when you're accused of these things, you're guilty in the public eye. I'd rather have teams that don't have these accusations.

[TheOldRoman]

Is it possible that this doesn't forever ruin the program? While I agree that there should be a "best interests" clause that allows for sanctions even if there's no technical conference or NCAA violation, if they get away, and start anew with a new coach (for argument's sake ONLY let's say Urban Meyer) (again - just for the purposes of this discussion), new AD, new president, etc., would a recruit or their family really have reservations of signing on there? If all of the names involved in the cover-up come out and are gone, other than the horrible memories and association, would it really be that far fetched that they'd be back to having good recruiting classes relatively soon? It could be seen as an opportunity for a new administration to somehow make a positive out of everything and start programs (that wouldn't be run by pedophiles) for kids and/or donate buttloads of money to child welfare groups or something.

First off, I don't think any name coach would want to take over next year. Someone like Meyer might want to be the 2nd or 3rd coach after Paterno, but nobody wants to be the first. This is even more true after this news came out. But to your other point, I can't imagine this story scrubbing clean. Think of it like this, would you buy a house if you knew a dozen people had been murdered in it? Sure, they painted and changed the carpet, but it would still be weird knowing that people were killed there. That's an extreme example, but I think there are parallels. I don't know that the stigma will ever leave the university.

I don't think it will forever tar the school, or even the athletic department.

Once Paterno, Curley and the other crooks are all removed, Penn State can start to rebuild. The fault lies with them, not the brick and mortar.

Yeah, but unlike USC, Alabama or Tenessee who can suck for a decade and suddenly become a top team again because they are historical powerhouses, Penn State is nothing outside of Joe Paterno. They were nothing before him; he IS the football program. There is no great tradition for them to draw upon which isn't tainted at this point.