Say it ain't so, Joe

[Kevin W.]

And of course there's JoePa's quote about not leaving college football to the Jackie Sherrills and Barry Switzers of the world, or something like that.

Switzer's statue at Oklahoma is still standing.

[IceCap]

Forgive my ignorance but what did those two do to get the great and mighty Joe Paterno all pissy?

[Gothamite]

Forgive my ignorance but what did those two do to get the great and mighty Joe Paterno all pissy?

The usual recruiting and player payment stuff. Switzer had a rape and drug scandal on top of that.

Perhaps Paterno just considered them amateurs.

[IceCap]

It was not my intent to come across like I was saying all Penn State people/fans/whatever are idiots, The "optimism" I was referring to was that I'd like to think that some of these "WE STILL ARE" folks clogging up the comments sections, Facebook, etc. are saying it because there still are some things to be proud of at Penn State. The "reality" I referred to was that they usually turn out to just be more of the "dumbest yokels." If you go back through the thread, you'll see that I am not part of the "anyone involved with Penn State at any level is a blind Paterno loyalist" crowd. I never jumped on the bloodlust train.

My opinion is that the vast majority of those involved with Penn State are every bit as mortified over what happened as the rest of us are.

We're aware. 'red, you rock, but your continued insistence of that is starting to get as "tired" as you claim the angry mob's proclamations are.

Let me put it to you this way. I don't think anyone's ever said "anyone involved with Penn State is a blind Paterno loyalist." It all goes back to what Bucsfan said. We should all be revolted by child rape by default. Yet that there are those who defend a man who allowed it happen sickens us, because it runs counter to what should be a natural reaction. Even if those who are defending Paterno and co. are in the minority, their proclamations of "WE ARE" indicate that they believe they're speaking for the entirety of Penn State. As untrue as it may be, that reflects negatively on the institution. As it should. Again, these are people who are, essentially, turning a blind eye to a series of crimes we should all find disgusting to our very core.

So I really don't see the point to going out of one's way to talk down to people who are rightfully disgusted at a child rapist, his enabler, and his enabler's defenders. Of course people are angry. As they should be. Has it gotten out of hand? I don't think so. No one's set fire to State College. If anyone's stated "all affiliated with Penn State are Joepologists" then they're wrong, yes. I just think it's a bit much to say that people shouldn't get very angry over this and to deride people who have as "jumping on the bloodlust train." They should, and I'm glad they are. It proves that we, as a society, still have some sanity left that we can get angry over something like this.

As for the Paterno family, screw them. They want to commission their own "investigation" of the Freeh report? Ok. It'll be a circus. They're going to dig themselves a deeper hole and makes fools of themselves once again. And no one can stop them from doing it. So of course people are going to watch with morbid curiosity as they try to salvage what little they can of their fallen patriarch's legacy. They deserve to be gawked at if they're going to continuously defend the enabler of a child rapist in a public manner.

[infrared41]

It was not my intent to come across like I was saying all Penn State people/fans/whatever are idiots, The "optimism" I was referring to was that I'd like to think that some of these "WE STILL ARE" folks clogging up the comments sections, Facebook, etc. are saying it because there still are some things to be proud of at Penn State. The "reality" I referred to was that they usually turn out to just be more of the "dumbest yokels." If you go back through the thread, you'll see that I am not part of the "anyone involved with Penn State at any level is a blind Paterno loyalist" crowd. I never jumped on the bloodlust train.

My opinion is that the vast majority of those involved with Penn State are every bit as mortified over what happened as the rest of us are.

We're aware. 'red, you rock, but your continued insistence of that is starting to get as "tired" as you claim the angry mob's proclamations are.

Let me put it to you this way. I don't think anyone's ever said "anyone involved with Penn State is a blind Paterno loyalist." It all goes back to what Bucsfan said. We should all be revolted by child rape by default. Yet that there are those who defend a man who allowed it happen sickens us, because it runs counter to what should be a natural reaction. Even if those who are defending Paterno and co. are in the minority, their proclamations of "WE ARE" indicate that they believe they're speaking for the entirety of Penn State. As untrue as it may be, that reflects negatively on the institution. As it should. Again, these are people who are, essentially, turning a blind eye to a series of crimes we should all find disgusting to our very core.

So I really don't see the point to going out of one's way to talk down to people who are rightfully disgusted at a child rapist, his enabler, and his enabler's defenders. Of course people are angry. As they should be. Has it gotten out of hand? I don't think so. No one's set fire to State College. If anyone's stated "all affiliated with Penn State are Joepologists" then they're wrong, yes. I just think it's a bit much to say that people shouldn't get very angry over this and to deride people who have as "jumping on the bloodlust train." They should, and I'm glad they are. It proves that we, as a society, still have some sanity left that we can get angry over something like this.

As for the Paterno family, screw them. They want to commission their own "investigation" of the Freeh report? Ok. It'll be a circus. They're going to dig themselves a deeper hole and makes fools of themselves once again. And no one can stop them from doing it. So of course people are going to watch with morbid curiosity as they try to salvage what little they can of their fallen patriarch's legacy. They deserve to be gawked at if they're going to continuously defend the enabler of a child rapist in a public manner.

A.) I think I've mentioned it twice. I'm positive that was my first use of "bloodlust train."

B.) I'm not "talking down" to anyone. If appears that I am, I apologize.

C.) I've never said people shouldn't be angry. Hell, I'm as angry and disgusted as everyone else is. That said, I do think a few people are using this tragedy for sport.

I honestly think you have misinterpreted my intent with the posts in question (as well as at whom they were aimed) and that's my fault for not communicating my thoughts more clearly. Finally, with regard to whether or not I "rock", I can assure you that I pretty much don't.

[rams80]

Forgive my ignorance but what did those two do to get the great and mighty Joe Paterno all pissy?

The usual recruiting and player payment stuff. Switzer had a rape and drug scandal on top of that.

Perhaps Paterno just considered them amateurs.

Maybe. This did happen back in the 80s though, which may have been before he found out about Sandusky as I have been informed.

/Oklahoma also had a shooting and Switzer's house get robbed by one of his own players. Lawrence Phillips would be proud (YES I KNOW HE WENT TO NEBRASKA!).

[Gothamite]

Perhaps Paterno just considered them amateurs.

Maybe. This did happen back in the 80s though, which may have been before he found out about Sandusky as I have been informed.

Yeah, I was kinda kidding about that.

Presuming for the moment that he didn't already know when he gave that interview, it's still interesting to note how quickly he went from protector of virtue to protector of pedophile.

[The_Admiral]

Think of it as like being a muslim. If you're a muslim, chances are you don't support Al Qaeda or anything that they did, and you're ashamed that some of "your people" would do such a thing

If you're someone who's obsessed with speeding, chances are you do

[charger77]

Think of it as like being a muslim. If you're a muslim, chances are you don't support Al Qaeda or anything that they did, and you're ashamed that some of "your people" would do such a thing

If you're someone who's obsessed with speeding, chances are you do

[Viper]

Seeing that the NCAA did take action against Penn State, but declined to administer their so-called "death penalty" says more about the state of the death penalty (read: it is itself deader than dead) than it does about Penn State's transgressions.

Also, seeing that many media members and other observers have commented that the sanctions Penn State got are actually worse over the long haul than an outright 1-year ban, I wonder if this won't become the NCAA's template for a death-penalty substitute for severe/repeat violators (Miami, anyone?) in the future.

[dfwabel]

Seeing that the NCAA did take action against Penn State, but declined to administer their so-called "death penalty" says more about the state of the death penalty (read: it is itself deader than dead) than it does about Penn State's transgressions.

Also, seeing that many media members and other observers have commented that the sanctions Penn State got are actually worse over the long haul than an outright 1-year ban, I wonder if this won't become the NCAA's template for a death-penalty substitute for severe/repeat violators (Miami, anyone?) in the future.

Dr. Emmert took action against Penn State football, but the men directly named in the Freeh Report have yet to receive formal sanctions.

Sandusky- JAILED, and no sanctions

Paterno- DEAD

Spanier (formerly on the NCAA Board of Directors and on the Executive Committee on student-athlete welfare just last year)- No Sanctions

Curley- No Sanctions and still is on leave as his job at AD.

McQuery- No Sanctions

Emmert wants to await the criminal or civil trials before rendering those decisions on the individuals listed in the Freeh Report, if he actually does. Why is he waiting there?

Chris Webber cannot associate with Michigan for accepting money as a student-athlete, but as of tonight Spanier and Curley can associate with Penn State.

The NCAA, who does not need to have additional power used it on Monday and shoehorned this case into their Constitution and Bylaws.

Why look at Miami, when there are other cases which are out there and like Penn State, are not directly concerned with competition:

Wasn't there issues with student-athlete rights (or lack there of) with Duke Lacrosse?

Aren't there issues with ethics with the UVa lacrosse murder?

And I have mentioned Montana earlier in this thread.

[bosrs1]

Seeing that the NCAA did take action against Penn State, but declined to administer their so-called "death penalty" says more about the state of the death penalty (read: it is itself deader than dead) than it does about Penn State's transgressions.

Also, seeing that many media members and other observers have commented that the sanctions Penn State got are actually worse over the long haul than an outright 1-year ban, I wonder if this won't become the NCAA's template for a death-penalty substitute for severe/repeat violators (Miami, anyone?) in the future.

Looks like you may be wrong. The NCAA wasn't reluctant to invoke the death penalty at all. In fact they were going to give PSU a 4 year ban. They gave them the option of accepting what became the penalty or take the death penalty.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8199905/penn-state-nittany-lions-rodney-erickson-said-school-faced-4-year-death-penalty

[DEAD!]

Paterno- DEAD

Hey now, I'm not Joe Paterno

[BigMac12]

Paterno- DEAD

Hey now, I'm not Joe Paterno

Good thing I didn't post that.

[BBTV]

Think of it as like being a muslim. If you're a muslim, chances are you don't support Al Qaeda or anything that they did, and you're ashamed that some of "your people" would do such a thing

If you're someone who's obsessed with speeding, chances are you do

[illwauk]

Think of it as like being a muslim. If you're a muslim, chances are you don't support Al Qaeda or anything that they did, and you're ashamed that some of "your people" would do such a thing

If you're someone who's obsessed with speeding, chances are you do

I vaguely remember a thread where Logodude was trying to defend a point and kept bringing up a hypothetical speeding scenario.

[Lights Out]

Looks like you may be wrong. The NCAA wasn't reluctant to invoke the death penalty at all. In fact they were going to give PSU a 4 year ban. They gave them the option of accepting what became the penalty or take the death penalty.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8199905/penn-state-nittany-lions-rodney-erickson-said-school-faced-4-year-death-penalty

Just goes to show that Penn State still doesn't get it and never will. They actually chose 20+ years of futility and getting to field a (crappy) team this year over shutting it down for 4 years, cleaning house, and coming back stronger. Why? Because god forbid Happy Valley goes five minutes without their FOOTBAW.

[dfwabel]

While Emmert and Dr. Rodney have said that it (death penalty) was discussed, that does not indicate that within any NCAA minutes that a "death penalty" was apart of the formal discussion process. They can say all they want, but unless it was part of their minutes; I call it a threat to Penn State.

On the university's side, shutting down football for 'X" years would cause more damage to the city, the county and outlying areas in terms of hotel rooms, restaurants, gas stations and tax dollars. Outside of "welcome week" and graduation weekend, the county would lost millions of tax dollars, which was not necessarily their fault at all. I do not find the entire community guilty, I find the four men listed in the Freeh Report as guilty along with some others in state government, one of whom was missing and now declared deceased.

EDIT: If the program was so guilty, why haven't any former Penn State assistant coaches been given a "show cause"? If Paterno never fired a coach, kept men on staff for decades (Bradley, Johnson, Gantner) and they only left to get other jobs, why have they not been popped too?

[BBTV]

Looks like you may be wrong. The NCAA wasn't reluctant to invoke the death penalty at all. In fact they were going to give PSU a 4 year ban. They gave them the option of accepting what became the penalty or take the death penalty.

http://espn.go.com/e...r-death-penalty

Just goes to show that Penn State still doesn't get it and never will. They actually chose 20+ years of futility and getting to field a (crappy) team this year over shutting it down for 4 years, cleaning house, and coming back stronger. Why? Because god forbid Happy Valley goes five minutes without their FOOTBAW.

Put yourself in their shoes - which option would you pick? Not as some guy on the internet, but as an administrator and public employee (actually, I'm not sure who the president actually works for, but I'm assuming that much like a CEO has responsibility to the shareholders, he has a responsibility to the state.) The obvious response is that "they had a responsibility to the victims but failed", which is obviously true, but either punishment severely devalues the program. It's just that one allows it to keep generating revenue for 4 years. I think that any responsible leader would choose that option - especially one who's new and doesn't have the guilt personally on his hands.

For what it's worth, I think that from a football perspective, the death penalty may have been better - it's better IMO to be gone completely and then re-appear than it is to suck and have that reputation for decades.

[crashcarson15]

What I heard, though, is that the punishment would've been death penalty + everything else PSU got. So they would've missed this past year and then had to start anew with the bowl ban, scholarship reductions, etc.