Ozzie Guillen

[oddball]

MLB did not suspend Ozzie, the Marlins did, and they did it hoping to take some heat off of him from the fans that were riled up. I agree Marlinfan that's how I read what he said too, and I am the biggest anti communist on this board. I personally think the Marlins will be dumb to fire Ozzie and this is just much ado about nothing.

Thank you for that information that I already knew. It still sends a horrible message that there is more punishment from a team about a stupid statement than there is about being caught cheating and following the rules of the game. Of course Milwaukee never would've actually suspended a player for not following the rules and there is no way that Bud Selig would suspend a Milwaukee player, but he is fine with a team suspending a manger for not being "P.C.".

[infrared41]

Just a few thoughts on Ozzie-gate...

There's really no way to say something good about Fidel Castro without looking really bad doing it. I don't really care in what context the comments were made or how he qualified the statement. There's nothing to "admire" about Fidel Castro. You say "yeah, he's awful, but he's tough and you gotta admire that" and I say "he lined people up and had them shot." I'm pretty sure my statement will cancel out yours every time.

Blame the media all you want. Somewhere in there, Ozzie Guillen stated that he admired Fidel Castro. You simply should not do that; in any context. You especially shouldn't do it in Miami. You really shouldn't do it anywhere. His comments weren't "Ozzie being Ozzie" and they shouldn't be so easily dismissed as such. What would happen here if someone said "the 9/11 terrorists were awful people, but you gotta admire the guts it took to fly those planes into the WTC?" This place would go ballistic. That is what would happen.

I'm not at all surprised to see Ozzie getting a bit of a free pass around here on this. Anytime something like this happens, we trip over each other in our rush to illustrate how we "get it." Then we proceed to eviscerate the media for "making a big deal out of nothing." It's what we do here, and in this case, we couldn't be more wrong in doing it. It is a big deal and it's not the media's fault.

Finally, I don't think he survives this. It's going to end up costing him his job. This one ain't going away anytime soon.

OK, take me to the proverbial woodshed.

[TheOldRoman]

What's your favorite Guillenling misadventure? I liked the time one's girlfriend slapped some guy at the Ozzie roast and started a fight.

That was a good one. Among my favorites was them tweeting that players were irate at Ken Williams because he didn't fly to KC to watch the team in a double header when they were shorthanded due to a trade, accusing him of being out cheating on his wife while at a comedy club (!) at the time, despite the fact that he had been divorced for several months.

Also, a few weeks ago, Chuck "Mr. Peepers" Garfein reported Williams and Ozzie exchanged apologetic text messages. The sons took to twitter to call Garfein a lying piece of crap because Ozzie would never accept an apology from Williams, only to realize a few hours later that it actually did happen. They then said it was a vag move by Ozzie to make up with Williams.

Of course, the aforementioned attack of Mark Teahen's wife was a vintage Guillen moment. After being traded and subsequently ripped again by the sons on Twitter, Teahen tweeted his goal was to be so successful that his lowlife son could be an unemployed slob who lived off of his fame. The son responded by calling Teahen's wife ugly, saying she was built like a man and saying she has horrible acne, none of which are actually true. It was reported that one of the players on the team after that trade had to be restrained from kicking Oney's ass after that one. Good times.

[pmoehrin]

MLB did not suspend Ozzie, the Marlins did, and they did it hoping to take some heat off of him from the fans that were riled up. I agree Marlinfan that's how I read what he said too, and I am the biggest anti communist on this board. I personally think the Marlins will be dumb to fire Ozzie and this is just much ado about nothing.

Yeah I'm pretty much in the same opinion.

I don't think Ozzie said or did anything to deserve getting suspended but he po'd people who will throw a fit over anything that even the least bit praises Castro and for it they want blood.

So yeah I absolutely think the Marlins caved in to peer pressure on this and if there wasn't such a public outcry I highly doubt anything would have happened to Ozzie. I don't think anyone should be suspended for political statements even though its happened before and I'm sure it will happen again. We're talking about one of the most polarizing figures in the world and Ozzie just happened to have the bad luck of being in the area where you have Bay of Pigs survivors.

All I'll say regarding the Cuban exiles are anti-Fidel is that the enemey of my enemy is not necessairly my friend. I don't think there were many people who was actively anti-Fidel in Cuba at the time when he took power that were above doing anything that Fidel did to them.

[The_Admiral]

Ozzie just happened to have the bad luck of being in the area where you have Bay of Pigs survivors.

Um, he didn't exactly stumble into the wrong neighborhood...

[DustDevil61]

MLB did not suspend Ozzie, the Marlins did, and they did it hoping to take some heat off of him from the fans that were riled up. I agree Marlinfan that's how I read what he said too, and I am the biggest anti communist on this board. I personally think the Marlins will be dumb to fire Ozzie and this is just much ado about nothing.

Thank you for that information that I already knew. It still sends a horrible message that there is more punishment from a team about a stupid statement than there is about being caught cheating and following the rules of the game. Of course Milwaukee never would've actually suspended a player for not following the rules and there is no way that Bud Selig would suspend a Milwaukee player, but he is fine with a team suspending a manger for not being "P.C.".

I echo those sentiments; that's how I read Guillen's comments as well.

[NJTank]

My favorite Ozzie moment is when he ripped Magglio Ordonez after the White Sox dumped him.

[scottysprings]

After this managerial gig is up I wouldn't be surprised to see Ozzie making regular appearances on the Worldwide Leader.

[Saintsfan]

It's amazing how easy it is to create a storm in the US. It is pretty admirable to survive as long as Fidel Castro has, especially given the attention the CIA was paying him in the 60s.

Saying that is not making Castro into an angel. But the guy stayed in power for 50 years with the world's biggest superpower looking over his shoulder, so he obviously did something to make people feel positive about him. Again that's not to say he was an angel.

However it's also worth comparing the quality of life in Cuba to the rest of the Carribean.

[The_Admiral]

It is pretty admirable to survive as long as Fidel Castro has

Osama Bin Laden took a long time to get capped for overseeing torture and murder. Did you admire him? When did the cockroach become a symbol of begrudging respect?

[Saintsfan]

It is pretty admirable to survive as long as Fidel Castro has

Osama Bin Laden took a long time to get capped for overseeing torture and murder. Did you admire him? When did the cockroach become a symbol of begrudging respect?

The two aren't the same thing. For a start, Castro didn't go into hiding. Secondly, he never got assassinated despite the best attempts of the CIA, and despite living in the shadow of his greatest enemy. Noone is ascribing any respect of his political beliefs in saying that. I think to have survived throughout the sixties, and beyond, when Castro was nearly as reviled in the US as Osama has been in the 00s and 10s, and whilst he was being targetted by the CIA is something of an achievement. I don't think anyone should be reviled for acknowledging that, and I don't think the media needed to create such a storm over this.

Yes Guillen says some undiplomatic, sometimes dumb, stuff, but the media doesn't need to keep rising to him either.

And the Florida-Cuban community would do well to get over its anti Castro paranoia. (Though I understand for, particularly, the older members of said community, that is not such an easy thing to do.)

[WSU151]

I don't think anyone should be suspended for political statements

You might want to think that one through again.

If someone triggers their inner-Marge Schott and proclaims Hitler was a great man, then yeah, they probably should be suspended.

There are some things you just don't say in public discourse.

[pmoehrin]

I don't think anyone should be suspended for political statements

You might want to think that one through again.

If someone triggers their inner-Marge Schott and proclaims Hitler was a great man, then yeah, they probably should be suspended.

There are some things you just don't say in public discourse.

There's a difference between being a political advocate for communism and a hate group such as the KKK or Nazis.

Yeah you can go over the line with political statements, but you take any aspect of freedom of speech to the most extreme point and your going to go over the line. I would think that just goes without saying.

And I won't no part of this discussion either. I made my statement and I stand by it. If people are going to start bringing up names like Hitler and Osama Bin Laden your going to lose context of what the situation is about and your going down a road I don't even want to get into.

[WSU151]

I don't think anyone should be suspended for political statements

You might want to think that one through again.

If someone triggers their inner-Marge Schott and proclaims Hitler was a great man, then yeah, they probably should be suspended.

There are some things you just don't say in public discourse.

There's a difference between being a political advocate for communism and a hate group such as the KKK or Nazis.

Yeah you can go over the line with political statements, but you take any aspect of freedom of speech to the most extreme point and your going to go over the line. I would think that just goes without saying.

And I won't no part of this discussion either. I made my statement and I stand by it. If people are going to start bringing up names like Hitler and Osama Bin Laden your going to lose context of what the situation is about and your going down a road I don't even want to get into.

I'm sorry. I didn't see the part where you set up a system that determines which political statement is better than another.

[Sneed]

But the guy stayed in power for 50 years with the world's biggest superpower looking over his shoulder, so he obviously did something to make people feel positive about him.

Saddam Hussein was in power for 25 years. Do you think he was he a swell guy that made people feel positive about him too?

People should not praise admirable qualities of despots.

[TheOldRoman]

There's a difference between being a political advocate for communism and a hate group such as the KKK or Nazis.

That may be, but Ozzie wasn't expounding his political beliefs, he was showing admiration for a murderous dictator. Castro has caused far more hate than any hate groups.

My favorite Ozzie moment is when he ripped Magglio Ordonez after the White Sox dumped him.

But that was the good Ozzie! That was when he was a breathe of fresh air. Ordonez was whining and calling the Sox dirty poo-poo heads for not resigning him after sleazy doing him him and Scott Boras, and Ozzie basically told him to STFU and don't talk about the White Sox. After 2005 his ego got too big and he started ripping people at random.

[IceCap]

It is pretty admirable to survive as long as Fidel Castro has

Osama Bin Laden took a long time to get capped for overseeing torture and murder. Did you admire him? When did the cockroach become a symbol of begrudging respect?

The two aren't the same thing. For a start, Castro didn't go into hiding. Secondly, he never got assassinated despite the best attempts of the CIA, and despite living in the shadow of his greatest enemy. Noone is ascribing any respect of his political beliefs in saying that. I think to have survived throughout the sixties, and beyond, when Castro was nearly as reviled in the US as Osama has been in the 00s and 10s, and whilst he was being targetted by the CIA is something of an achievement. I don't think anyone should be reviled for acknowledging that, and I don't think the media needed to create such a storm over this.

Hitler managed to stay alive despite plots from both the British government and his own military to get rid of him. If you want take an Ozzie-ish angle on it, he got so tired of people failing to kill him he offed himself to show those fools how it's done. Heck, Hitler survived a bomb going off in the same room. Tough as nails, that Adolf. Gotta respect that.

Go ahead, play the "you brought up Hitler, you lose" card. Doesn't matter. When you see past that the examples line up. Though of course the Canadian government has blood on its hands, so who am I to criticize murderous dictators?

Yes Guillen says some undiplomatic, sometimes dumb, stuff, but the media doesn't need to keep rising to him either.

So people should be given a pass when they say stupid things?

And the Florida-Cuban community would do well to get over its anti Castro paranoia. (Though I understand for, particularly, the older members of said community, that is not such an easy thing to do.)

Unless you're part of a community like this that's suffered at the hands of a man or government you have no right to suggest they "get over it." It's kind of arrogant on your part, as an outsider, to suggest that you know better then the people affected. Any healing is going to take time, on their own time. Maybe it's already begun. If so great, but they'll get there at their own pace.

I understand the ideology behind Castro's government may be appealing to progressive thinkers, but it's kind of naive to assume that the man's actual actions as the head of a government don't overshadow the ideology he claimed to be promoting. In fact the killing and jailing of political opponents and doing away with freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of assembly kind of makes him a terrible role model for progressive leaning thinkers.

[Saintsfan]

But the guy stayed in power for 50 years with the world's biggest superpower looking over his shoulder, so he obviously did something to make people feel positive about him.

Saddam Hussein was in power for 25 years. Do you think he was he a swell guy that made people feel positive about him too?

People should not praise admirable qualities of despots.

I didn't say Castro was a swell guy, and I am not praising admirable qualities, I am praising admirable achievements, the two are different.

And yes, Saddam did make some people feel positive. He may also have been incredibly vile to others, but divide and conquer is a pretty reasonable strategy for governing for a despot.

But again, Saddam was not living in the shadow of the US, and indeed for much of his time in power was a de facto ally of the US. (More in the enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of way, but hey!)

Again for much of Hitler's period in office, he was regarded, at least by many in positions of power in the UK and the USA, as a useful butress against communism. Castro was courted by American Presidents for all of about 5 minutes, before they decided he wasn't worth it.

There really isn't anyone in recent history who has remained in power for as long as Castro, whilst being opposed so closely by a Superpower.

[McCall]

But the guy stayed in power for 50 years with the world's biggest superpower looking over his shoulder, so he obviously did something to make people feel positive about him.

Saddam Hussein was in power for 25 years. Do you think he was he a swell guy that made people feel positive about him too?

People should not praise admirable qualities of despots.

I didn't say Castro was a swell guy, and I am not praising admirable qualities, I am praising admirable achievements, the two are different.

And yes, Saddam did make some people feel positive. He may also have been incredibly vile to others, but divide and conquer is a pretty reasonable strategy for governing for a despot.

But again, Saddam was not living in the shadow of the US, and indeed for much of his time in power was a de facto ally of the US. (More in the enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of way, but hey!)

Again for much of Hitler's period in office, he was regarded, at least by many in positions of power in the UK and the USA, as a useful butress against communism. Castro was courted by American Presidents for all of about 5 minutes, before they decided he wasn't worth it.

There really isn't anyone in recent history who has remained in power for as long as Castro, whilst being opposed so closely by a Superpower.

When his "achievements" and "ability to remain in power" are based on oppression and torturing and killing of people who disagree with him, even just praising that is essentially praising what he is.

[infrared41]

It's amazing how easy it is to create a storm in the US. It is pretty admirable to survive as long as Fidel Castro has, especially given the attention the CIA was paying him in the 60s.

It's "admirable?" I'll buy amazing, astounding, remarkable, stunning, etc. but "admirable?" Sorry. There's nothing at all "admirable" about it. And while I'm at it, it's a good thing for you that the U.S. does buy in to the occasional -storm. If we didn't, you'd be typing your posts in German.