Continental Independent Baseball League: the Expansion

[BaseballJunkie]

The Birmingham Colonels logo looks great.

[grant1woods]

Vancouver is amazing! Quite a creative logo.

[alanohio]

Wichita, Wichita, Wichta !!! I need the final team to start my fantasy baseball league

[jaha32]

Wichita, Wichita, Wichta !!! I need the final team to start my fantasy baseball league

Did you ask for his permission to use any of his logos? Or you've just been quietly leeching off of him until now?

[alanohio]

Wichita, Wichita, Wichta !!! I need the final team to start my fantasy baseball league

Did you ask for his permission to use any of his logos? Or you've just been quietly leeching off of him until now?

I should have made myself clearer - I am creating a computer based league whereas I'm the only player. I am not selling or sharing the graphics with anyone other than myself. If I were to publish any results from the league in an internet format, I would, of course, give credit for the graphics used. I'm not out to "leech" anything - simply using a creative concept that I think is worthy of praise in a form greater than simply looking at it. If the creator wished his work not to be used at all, I would suspect he would have suggested such - and if he does wish that, he can certainly still post that he wants his work to be private and not used in any way, shape, or form. If he does, I will abide with his request.

[Whittier S]

Even if you're giving credit, it's always best to ask permission first. The work posted on here doesn't fall under a Creative Commons license, so you are obliged to ask.

[eagle98]

By your same logic, it's acceptable to take a car from a dealership parking lot for personal use because the owner never specifically said, "Don't steal the cars."

I know that you had good intentions, but you have to be careful about using other people's work. It's probably okay if it's completely personal. However, if you were to ever post this online, simply giving credit would not be enough. You would have to get permission. Either way, you should ask for permission before using someone else's work (unless the work is licensed under Creative Commons, which this is not, but even then you have to make sure you follow all the stipulations laid out by the specific license.)

People work very hard on these concepts, and they typically don't make them just so that anyone can use them.

That being said, this has been an incredible concept series, and I hope to see it completed.

[alanohio]

I've explained to dgnmrwrw what I had in mind and will leave it up to him to decide about using his logos.

[jaha32]

I've explained to dgnmrwrw what I had in mind and will leave it up to him to decide about using his logos.

Not to de-rail this thread anymore, because dgnmrwrw is one of my favorite posters on here if not my favorite, but the idea that everyone who posts on here needs to specifically state that they don't want their creative property stolen, is extremely unethical. And we all know that people don't read threads front to back anyway. You have explained your intentions well enough, and it is now between you and dgnmrwrw, but just because a piece of art is not bound to a canvas, doesn't mean it is any less the artist's property. I understand that you had no ill intentions of mass producing this around, but would you also go into a Thomas Kinkade art gallery and take a piece of art off the wall, hang it inside your house, and say it is okay because few will see it? I guess the reason I feel the need to address this is because I have also had to deal with people in my own experiences who have the same misconception as you, so I am not only talking to you. As an art community, we need to do a better job watermarking or blurring our art, or I see no reason to even post here, only for it to be the place people go to to get free non-vector logos.

[Guest darkpiranha]

I've explained to dgnmrwrw what I had in mind and will leave it up to him to decide about using his logos.

Not to de-rail this thread anymore, because dgnmrwrw is one of my favorite posters on here if not my favorite, but the idea that everyone who posts on here needs to specifically state that they don't want their creative property stolen, is extremely unethical. And we all know that people don't read threads front to back anyway. You have explained your intentions well enough, and it is now between you and dgnmrwrw, but just because a piece of art is not bound to a canvas, doesn't mean it is any less the artist's property. I understand that you had no ill intentions of mass producing this around, but would you also go into a Thomas Kinkade art gallery and take a piece of art off the wall, hang it inside your house, and say it is okay because few will see it? I guess the reason I feel the need to address this is because I have also had to deal with people in my own experiences who have the same misconception as you, so I am not only talking to you. As an art community, we need to do a better job watermarking or blurring our art, or I see no reason to even post here, only for it to be the place people go to to get free non-vector logos.

Not to derail this thread even further, but are you suggesting we need to get permission from a designer if we want to do something such as use a logo as the wallpaper on our computer? Or download it to a folder that my screensaver slideshow accesses? I mean, come on. I totally get that no one wants their logos stolen, but using it in one's computer game hardly constitutes 'theft'. I'm pretty sure that no one here got any of the NFL, NHL, et al's permission to download and then modify and then post those modifications here, or not even modifications, but sticking existing logos onto their own jersey or helmet creations. When was the last time the Patriots logo designer was credited before someone here repurposed the logo? (hint: never). For myself, I'm going to continue to download logos I like and stick them in my screensaver image folder so every once in a while when that image randomly comes up, I can admire it anew and be inspired by it.

[jaha32]

I've explained to dgnmrwrw what I had in mind and will leave it up to him to decide about using his logos.

Not to de-rail this thread anymore, because dgnmrwrw is one of my favorite posters on here if not my favorite, but the idea that everyone who posts on here needs to specifically state that they don't want their creative property stolen, is extremely unethical. And we all know that people don't read threads front to back anyway. You have explained your intentions well enough, and it is now between you and dgnmrwrw, but just because a piece of art is not bound to a canvas, doesn't mean it is any less the artist's property. I understand that you had no ill intentions of mass producing this around, but would you also go into a Thomas Kinkade art gallery and take a piece of art off the wall, hang it inside your house, and say it is okay because few will see it? I guess the reason I feel the need to address this is because I have also had to deal with people in my own experiences who have the same misconception as you, so I am not only talking to you. As an art community, we need to do a better job watermarking or blurring our art, or I see no reason to even post here, only for it to be the place people go to to get free non-vector logos.

Not to derail this thread even further, but are you suggesting we need to get permission from a designer if we want to do something such as use a logo as the wallpaper on our computer? Or download it to a folder that my screensaver slideshow accesses? I mean, come on. I totally get that no one wants their logos stolen, but using it in one's computer game hardly constitutes 'theft'. I'm pretty sure that no one here got any of the NFL, NHL, et al's permission to download and then modify and then post those modifications here, or not even modifications, but sticking existing logos onto their own jersey or helmet creations. When was the last time the Patriots logo designer was credited before someone here repurposed the logo? (hint: never). For myself, I'm going to continue to download logos I like and stick them in my screensaver image folder so every once in a while when that image randomly comes up, I can admire it anew and be inspired by it.

I have no problem with people making a personal wallpaper of art they find inspirational, that wasn't even in the discussion, as long as if they ever post it anywhere that they give credit where credit is due, which he said he would, and I already stated that alanohio had no ill intentions. My gripe had less to do with his actions, and more to do with him justifying his mindset that one can just take another's art just because the artist didn't specifically state that they don't want their stuff taken.

Your Patriots example, doesn't apply to this situation since 1)the designer no longer owns the logo 2)that is already a well-known brand and no one will confuse who it belongs to, and 3) anyone who uses it isn't even trying to hide the fact that they are using an NFL logo.

If a handful of your work starts showing up as random high school/youth team logos here and there, used by "professional" teams abroad, or worse yet as common stock art, I imagine you would see differently. And it all starts with the someone justifying that it's okay to take just because they can.

Even though it was my one brief comment started all this, I think we should get back on topic since this is dgnmrwrw's thread.

[sparkychewbarky]

It's not only great to see this being completed, but it's also good news to hear that there will be a CIBL expansion thread.

The "Spirit Bear" and "Armadillo" logos are fantastic.

...and I do remember the Bear over at Puckdrawn (Ikinda miss that site...it was fun)

[alanohio]

Wow, I have to admit I never expected this to get so vocal.

We can argue forever about Copyright and Fair Use laws, but the final decision is dgnmrwrw's - and since he hasn't responded I have to assume he doesn't want to get into the middle of this discussion.

To be clear, I was only going to use these logos for my own enjoyment - no different than capturing any image online and using it as desktop wallpaper. If, and ONLY if I might have shown those logos in a blog, I would have given credit to dgnmrwrw and even provided a link to his work here - because that's the kind of person I am. I wasn't trying to justify anything - simply trying to explain my belief that capturing an image for personal enjoyment only crosses a legality line when one intends to make money on the action or displays the image as his own work. I intended to do neither.

However, with the ground-swell of opposing opinion, and the absence of an opinion from dgnmrwrw, I will turn to other sources for my league logos. I feel it's a shame to not spread awareness of the work done here among sports fans from these artists IF they are open to it, but to be honest - the veiled accusation that I was somehow trying to exploit his work for my own advantage hurts more than the loss of the use of these images.

To dgnmrwrw I simply want to say your stuff is great and I wish I had your talents. If you can and wish to have these related posts deleted, please do.

[dgnmrwrw]

woah. didn't realize all of this had happened. I also didn't realize I hadn't posted the final team! I'll try to get it up as soon as possible... and I still plan on releasing the "expansion" series, most of which has been finished for months (or years), though there are some gaps remaining.

[dgnmrwrw]

Wichita Bombers
Wichita, KS

Colors are midnight blue, sky blue, and a sort of pewterish gray. The cap logo is the stylized W, and the secondary logo/sleeve patch is a roundel with a "dropping bomb" baseball. There's a lot going on in the uniforms--maybe too much, though I've never shown too much restraint in this minor league series--and close-ups of the wordmarks are here.

[mamiller99]

Really love the colors. Great job on this one!

[BKarchitect]

It's done! Nice work, really feeling Wichita. Love the secondary logo the most actually. Great color palette.

[BenD]

I would've liked to see the uniform with light blue as more of an accent, and for the color balance to be more like that of the primary logo.

[dgnmrwrw]

So I guess since I've got nearly all of the work done, I might as well go ahead and post the "expansion" portion of this series. Like I said, there will still be some gaps, but I'd like to get what I've completed out there. Basically, I'm adding 4 franchises to each division. So here's the first one (in the Northern division):

Atlantic City Aces
Atlantic City, NJ

The Aces' colors are red and black, taken from a deck of playing cards. Also, instead of one there are an entire series of cap and alternate logos, each using different suits from playing cards. Basically, the home primary uniform uses a spade, while the home alternate uses a club, the road primary uses a diamond, and the road alternate uses a heart. (So there are also four distinct caps.) Hopefully it all holds together.

Here is the collection of cap logos, and the collection of alternate logos/sleeve patches. Also, larger versions of the wordmarks.

[NOppenheimer]

I'm not a big fan of all that beveling on the Aces.