Cleveland Scene Article on Chief Wahoo

[mania]

Obviously comes in with it's perspective and is never shy about that, but it also did a lot of research and is very well written.

Here.

[Gothamite]

Perspective? Ya think?

Still, a good piece. And it's nice to see the "Louis Sockalexis Myth" debunked. Again.

I'm glad to hear that Clevelanders have taken to the "C" logo. That's a good first step.

[pmoehrin]

Very good article doing a good job of calling BS on the claim that the Indian name was intended to honor native american heritage.

I look at Chief Wahoo and I think its absolutely racist whether its intended to be or not and I believe that along with the Redskin name should be gone tomorrow. I don't care how much history is associated with the name or how attached people are to the identity. Its wrong to have something like Chief Wahoo as a symbol of anything other then a dated symbol of racisim.

[The Six]

Wahoo is a pretty good design, though.

[Gothamite]

Wahoo is a pretty good design, though.

Yes, as far as racist caricatures go, he's tops.

[The Six]

Beats a lot of non-racist caricatures, too.

[Gothamite]

Perhaps.

But that's the problem - you cannot remove the racist elements, which are essential to its design.

I wasn't aware that the Indians had such stringent guidelines for its use, which is tantamount to an admission that their opponents are right.

[The Six]

Of course you can. If you know nothing of racism in America, or Native Americans, then all you have is a picture. And that's only if you thought it was offensive in the first place. "Racist caricature" is a perception, and therefore requires some logical thought. Appreciating art has no such prerequisite. Looking at Wahoo as artwork (as can be done with any logo) removes it.

I never knew I was supposed to hate or be ashamed of Wahoo until recently. I'm not from Cleveland and never heard of any protests or outrage. Am I to now disregard what I thought was a cool logo because it apparently offends some people?

[-Akronite-]

I never got the full story of Sockalexis... I agree that the people who like and want to keep the logo just associate it with baseball, but maybe they can find a better logo. Something more than the 'C' though, because as is it's kinda dull on it's own. Losing a 97-year-old name would suck though, I'm much less in favor of tossing that than Wahoo.

[Gothamite]

Of course you can. If you know nothing of racism in America, or Native Americans, then all you have is a picture. And that's only if you thought it was offensive in the first place. "Racist caricature" is a perception, and therefore requires some logical thought. Appreciating art has no such prerequisite. Looking at Wahoo as artwork (as can be done with any logo) removes it.

I never knew I was supposed to hate or be ashamed of Wahoo until recently. I'm not from Cleveland and never heard of any protests or outrage. Am I to now disregard what I thought was a cool logo because it apparently offends some people?

Only you can answer that.

I'm sure we could find some similar big-nosed, big-lipped Sambo caricatures for you to appreciate. Those might be equally well-designed, but they would also be equally offensive and inappropriate for a sports team.

[ColeJ]

i have two solutions that, as controversial as they may be, would actually make me pretty happy.

1) simply become the Cleveland Tribe, and drop Wahoo's image. you can do a lot with a native american theme, without using a cartoon face.

2) start using imagery from India. again, no caricatures, but how am i the only person annoyed that they're still using the ignorant christopher columbus nickname for natives?

[oddball]

Of course you can. If you know nothing of racism in America, or Native Americans, then all you have is a picture. And that's only if you thought it was offensive in the first place. "Racist caricature" is a perception, and therefore requires some logical thought. Appreciating art has no such prerequisite. Looking at Wahoo as artwork (as can be done with any logo) removes it.

I never knew I was supposed to hate or be ashamed of Wahoo until recently. I'm not from Cleveland and never heard of any protests or outrage. Am I to now disregard what I thought was a cool logo because it apparently offends some people?

No. You are to make up your own opinion.

[pmoehrin]

Of course you can. If you know nothing of racism in America, or Native Americans, then all you have is a picture. And that's only if you thought it was offensive in the first place. "Racist caricature" is a perception, and therefore requires some logical thought. Appreciating art has no such prerequisite. Looking at Wahoo as artwork (as can be done with any logo) removes it.

I never knew I was supposed to hate or be ashamed of Wahoo until recently. I'm not from Cleveland and never heard of any protests or outrage. Am I to now disregard what I thought was a cool logo because it apparently offends some people?

Pleading ignorance does not excuse something from being deemed racist.

2) start using imagery from India. again, no caricatures, but how am i the only person annoyed that they're still using the ignorant christopher columbus nickname for natives?

Your not and that's another issue I have with it. Indians is not a name Native Americans came up with, it was one that was imposed on them. The smiling Chief Wahoo I think imposes the belief on some level that the Native people are okay with this name.

I would just call them the Spiders. The name has history tied to Cleveland baseball and its unique.

[WSU151]

Census polls have shown time and time again that most Native Americans actually refer to themselves as American Indians.

So the nickname really isn't ignorant.

.

[ColeJ]

regardless of what is acceptable today, for christopher columbus to call them indians was, by definition, ignorance. that is my point. he wasn't in india. he thought he was. the name stuck, despite it's inaccuracy. if that's not ignorance, i dunno what is.

[The Six]

I'm sure we could find some similar big-nosed, big-lipped Sambo caricatures for you to appreciate.

[Trident M]

Of course you can. If you know nothing of racism in America, or Native Americans, then all you have is a picture. And that's only if you thought it was offensive in the first place. "Racist caricature" is a perception, and therefore requires some logical thought. Appreciating art has no such prerequisite. Looking at Wahoo as artwork (as can be done with any logo) removes it.

I never knew I was supposed to hate or be ashamed of Wahoo until recently. I'm not from Cleveland and never heard of any protests or outrage. Am I to now disregard what I thought was a cool logo because it apparently offends some people?

You must be the same type of person that questions why there isn't a white history month.

[The Six]

Nope, never even thought about it. Thanks for playing, though.

[Gothamite]

Mr. Colbert, is that you? Big fan of your show.

[tubby34]

What if he wasn't red faced, and just recolored to a Caramel brown color? Would it make a difference?

My issue with it is that he's redfaced, much like a looney tune depiction of a black guy back in the 1930's as black faced and big lipped.