Charlotte Hornets?

[Bravo96]

You probably couldn't tell by my avi or sigs but I'm a huge proponent of the name change. People tend not to believe and perhaps some of you or all of you won't care, but branding matters. The Charlotte Hornets endured a lot of losing seasons in a row and never ever did well in the playoffs before cutting town due to an arrogant jerk-off of an owner. But they set attendance records (that now completely wrongfully reside in New Orleans, along with the legacy of Muggsy Bogues, Grandmama, and others). They moved merchandise. It's nice to sugarcoat history and pretend that the Hornets were popular because teal and purple was the 90's penultimate color combo and they were popular because of that, but at it's heart, the city of Charlotte really loved our Bugs. Then slimeball George Shinn raped a woman, didn't get exactly what he wanted out of the city council, so he cut ties and ran away to Nola. The Bobcats were greeted with middling excitement that quickly turned into apathy and never once came anywhere close to matching the apex of the Hornets hysteria in Buzz City, due in no small part to the name being a direct reference to the original and second worst owner in Charlotte sports history, Bob Johnson. The name is an egotistical reference to him, that's why the 'Cats have been downplaying the "Bob" part of their name in recent years. I mean, it's pretty challenging to think of a less professional nickname for a top-level sports team than the "Cats," but the alienation of fans has driven it to that point. In print and online, some people refuse to refer to them as anything but the B**cats. Rebranding as the Hornets, even if it's not the "original ones," doesn't matter, because it's the original Hornets in our hearts. Grandmama, Muggsy, even Mourning and Glenn Rice, those are our memories and our achievements, regardless of what "official record" says. That being said, Crown Town as a whole is seeing an economic boost just from an upstart combining of two separate grassroots movements dedicated to what was once the longshot of getting the team name back. Now that it's a reality, these profits are just the tip of the iceberg. I'm not sure where to go for such numbers, but I'd be willing to bet a princely sum that retro Charlotte Hornets merchandise, merch for a team that DOESN'T EVEN EXIST ANYMORE, easily outsold Bobcats merchandise in each of the past two years. Imagine what a return to the living could do for such a storied, if under-achieving franchise. The thing is, not everyone understands that it's more than a logo. Charlotte was referred to as "a veritable hornet's nest of rebellion" by Charles Cornwallis during the Revolutionary War. That's something Charlotteans and North Carolinians take a great deal of pride in. Hornet's nests adorn the CLT/Mecklenburg Police seal, and the Hornets weren't even the first Charlotte sports team to be named such. In short, it's not just a team, a set of colors, or a logo. It's not even merely a far superior identity. First and foremost, it's history, pride, and 100% Charlotte. That's what the city needs: a team it can get behind. So far, the Bobcats have not been that team. The Hornets can be.

I agree with all of this. I grew up in North Carolina and was heart broken when the Hornets left, yet to be honest I still rooted for them even though Shinn ripped my heart a new one. Even after the Bobcats came to town, I supported them, but Im still a Hornets fan at heart. They were my first team, and they will always be my team, even if its in name only. I associate my fandom with that Purple and Teal color scheme, and I wholly support bringing the name back to the QC, even it it will be in name only. I dont get why there is so much viciousness to this idea ^^^^^^^ especially when the fan base wants it. Just look at the popluarity of the "Bring Back the Buzz" movement.

Exactly. The Bobcats identity is one of the most hated in the league. On the NBA Power Rankings thread in this same forum, the Bobcats identity is constantly ranked in the last 5 teams of 30, while NOLA gets a much better reputation, even though it's a bastardized version of the original. Your response is very encouraging. That's what this is all about: Taking back something that truly belongs to us. The New Orleans Pelicans may have been the Hornets in name for 10 years, but they were never truly the Hornets in spirit. That's why they're changing. And that's why the Bobcats should too.

[Old School Fool]

The Bobcats were never the Hornets. Pretending they were would be stupid. Which is why I expect this sad, flailing franchise to go through with it.

It's a great identity and to have it thrown by the wayside would just suck. The name Bobcats was awful and supposedly only chosen because of the damn owner. Things have been garbage and they need to just start over and pretend it never happened.

[Sec19Row53]

The Bobcats were never the Hornets. Pretending they were would be stupid. Which is why I expect this sad, flailing franchise to go through with it.

It's a great identity and to have it thrown by the wayside would just suck. The name Bobcats was awful and supposedly only chosen because of the damn owner. Things have been garbage and they need to just start over and pretend it never happened.

None of which really addresses what Ice_Cap said. The Charlotte Bobcats were never the Charlotte Hornets, so stating that the franchise is "going back to" that name is false.

This has nothing to do with a discussion of the merits of either identity, it's just looking at the facts of the two franchises. In doing this name change, what exactly are you pretending didn't happen? That the Hornets v1.0 didn't move? That the Bobcats didn't exist?

[CDixonDesign]

Specifically 2:28

"We gon' act like this Bobcats s@# nevvvver happened...."

[Gothamite]

The Bobcats were never the Hornets. Pretending they were would be stupid. Which is why I expect this sad, flailing franchise to go through with it.

It's a great identity and to have it thrown by the wayside would just suck. The name Bobcats was awful and supposedly only chosen because of the damn owner. Things have been garbage and they need to just start over and pretend it never happened.

None of which really addresses what Ice_Cap said. The Charlotte Bobcats were never the Charlotte Hornets, so stating that the franchise is "going back to" that name is false.

This has nothing to do with a discussion of the merits of either identity, it's just looking at the facts of the two franchises. In doing this name change, what exactly are you pretending didn't happen? That the Hornets v1.0 didn't move? That the Bobcats didn't exist?

Who has to pretend anything? Charlotte fans need a better identity for their team, and there's one sitting unused that's not only great, it's locally relevant and locally beloved. That's all.

Presuming for the moment that it happens, the franchise itself might not be "going back to" that name, but the city sure is. And sometimes, that's okay.

[McCall]

The Bobcats were never the Hornets. Pretending they were would be stupid. Which is why I expect this sad, flailing franchise to go through with it.

It's a great identity and to have it thrown by the wayside would just suck. The name Bobcats was awful and supposedly only chosen because of the damn owner. Things have been garbage and they need to just start over and pretend it never happened.

None of which really addresses what Ice_Cap said. The Charlotte Bobcats were never the Charlotte Hornets, so stating that the franchise is "going back to" that name is false.

This has nothing to do with a discussion of the merits of either identity, it's just looking at the facts of the two franchises. In doing this name change, what exactly are you pretending didn't happen? That the Hornets v1.0 didn't move? That the Bobcats didn't exist?

Who has to pretend anything? Charlotte fans need a better identity for their team, and there's one sitting unused that's not only great, it's locally relevant and locally beloved. That's all.

Presuming for the moment that it happens, the franchise itself might not be "going back to" that name, but the city sure is. And sometimes, that's okay.

Bingo. You think the people of Charlotte give a damn about the lineage? They want their team to be the Charlotte Hornets. That's who they grew up cheering for. If it can happen and they want it, who cares if they're only "pretending" about the history. Regardless they're cheering for the Charlotte Hornets. Good enough for them.

[IceCap]

The Bobcats were never the Hornets. Pretending they were would be stupid. Which is why I expect this sad, flailing franchise to go through with it.

It's a great identity and to have it thrown by the wayside would just suck. The name Bobcats was awful and supposedly only chosen because of the damn owner. Things have been garbage and they need to just start over and pretend it never happened.

None of which really addresses what Ice_Cap said. The Charlotte Bobcats were never the Charlotte Hornets, so stating that the franchise is "going back to" that name is false.

This has nothing to do with a discussion of the merits of either identity, it's just looking at the facts of the two franchises. In doing this name change, what exactly are you pretending didn't happen? That the Hornets v1.0 didn't move? That the Bobcats didn't exist?

Who has to pretend anything? Charlotte fans need a better identity for their team, and there's one sitting unused that's not only great, it's locally relevant and locally beloved. That's all.

Presuming for the moment that it happens, the franchise itself might not be "going back to" that name, but the city sure is. And sometimes, that's okay.

Bingo. You think the people of Charlotte give a damn about the lineage? They want their team to be the Charlotte Hornets. That's who they grew up cheering for. If it can happen and they want it, who cares if they're only "pretending" about the history. Regardless they're cheering for the Charlotte Hornets. Good enough for them.

[rams80]

Exactly. The Bobcats identity is one of the most hated in the league. On the NBA Power Rankings thread in this same forum, the Bobcats identity is constantly ranked in the last 5 teams of 30, while NOLA gets a much better reputation, even though it's a bastardized version of the original. Your response is very encouraging. That's what this is all about: Taking back something that truly belongs to us. The New Orleans Pelicans may have been the Hornets in name for 10 years, but they were never truly the Hornets in spirit. That's why they're changing. And that's why the Bobcats should too.

We also hate the guts of the guy who designed the original logo for the Billcats. That's another part of the problem for this forum anyway.

That said, if the Bobcats are the Hornets in spirit, I believe the only honorable thing to do is to offer the team a gun and tell them you hope the next round of reincarnation goes better.

[rams80]

You probably couldn't tell by my avi or sigs but I'm a huge proponent of the name change. People tend not to believe and perhaps some of you or all of you won't care, but branding matters. The Charlotte Hornets endured a lot of losing seasons in a row and never ever did well in the playoffs before cutting town due to an arrogant jerk-off of an owner. But they set attendance records (that now completely wrongfully reside in New Orleans, along with the legacy of Muggsy Bogues, Grandmama, and others). They moved merchandise. It's nice to sugarcoat history and pretend that the Hornets were popular because teal and purple was the 90's penultimate color combo and they were popular because of that, but at it's heart, the city of Charlotte really loved our Bugs. Then slimeball George Shinn raped a woman, didn't get exactly what he wanted out of the city council, so he cut ties and ran away to Nola. The Bobcats were greeted with middling excitement that quickly turned into apathy and never once came anywhere close to matching the apex of the Hornets hysteria in Buzz City, due in no small part to the name being a direct reference to the original and second worst owner in Charlotte sports history, Bob Johnson. The name is an egotistical reference to him, that's why the 'Cats have been downplaying the "Bob" part of their name in recent years. I mean, it's pretty challenging to think of a less professional nickname for a top-level sports team than the "Cats," but the alienation of fans has driven it to that point. In print and online, some people refuse to refer to them as anything but the B**cats. Rebranding as the Hornets, even if it's not the "original ones," doesn't matter, because it's the original Hornets in our hearts. Grandmama, Muggsy, even Mourning and Glenn Rice, those are our memories and our achievements, regardless of what "official record" says. That being said, Crown Town as a whole is seeing an economic boost just from an upstart combining of two separate grassroots movements dedicated to what was once the longshot of getting the team name back. Now that it's a reality, these profits are just the tip of the iceberg. I'm not sure where to go for such numbers, but I'd be willing to bet a princely sum that retro Charlotte Hornets merchandise, merch for a team that DOESN'T EVEN EXIST ANYMORE, easily outsold Bobcats merchandise in each of the past two years. Imagine what a return to the living could do for such a storied, if under-achieving franchise. The thing is, not everyone understands that it's more than a logo. Charlotte was referred to as "a veritable hornet's nest of rebellion" by Charles Cornwallis during the Revolutionary War. That's something Charlotteans and North Carolinians take a great deal of pride in. Hornet's nests adorn the CLT/Mecklenburg Police seal, and the Hornets weren't even the first Charlotte sports team to be named such. In short, it's not just a team, a set of colors, or a logo. It's not even merely a far superior identity. First and foremost, it's history, pride, and 100% Charlotte. That's what the city needs: a team it can get behind. So far, the Bobcats have not been that team. The Hornets can be.

My question to Charlotte. If you hated the British so much, why didn't you rename the city?

[Lights Out]

The Bobcats were never the Hornets. Pretending they were would be stupid. Which is why I expect this sad, flailing franchise to go through with it.

Regardless of the franchise history, "Hornets" is an appropriate team name for the city and region, and is now available since New Orleans is changing their name. I don't see the issue here.

[The_Admiral]

Where the Hornets name should be is in Oklahoma City, with the team that hung out there for a few years. But to make the best out of a bad situation, where Oklahoma City took the Sonics and renamed them the Thunder, the Hornets hung around and renamed themselves the Pelicans, the Kings might move to Seattle and rename themselves the Sonics, and the Bobcats are a chipped-away mess of god-knows-what, okay you know what fine just be the Hornets I don't care anymore I've barely watched basketball for four months anyway.

[OnWis97]

I have never for one second believed anything other than this: that the name change to "Pelicans" was done primarily for the purpose of changing the Charlotte franchise's name to the Hornets.

Next, the NBA has to give Charlotte the Hornets history. We will have

CHARLOTTE

• Hornets: 1988 - 2002. 11 year hiatus. 2013 -
  
• Expansion Bobcats: 2004 - 2013. Defunct.
  

NEW ORLEANS

• Expansion Hornets: 2020-2013. Defunct
  
• Expansion Pelicans: 2013 -
  

Complete with some staggeringly similar rosters.

This will make everybody happy. Apparently.

[TheOldRoman]

Who has to pretend anything? Charlotte fans need a better identity for their team, and there's one sitting unused that's not only great, it's locally relevant and locally beloved. That's all.

Presuming for the moment that it happens, the franchise itself might not be "going back to" that name, but the city sure is. And sometimes, that's okay.

Bingo. You think the people of Charlotte give a damn about the lineage? They want their team to be the Charlotte Hornets. That's who they grew up cheering for. If it can happen and they want it, who cares if they're only "pretending" about the history. Regardless they're cheering for the Charlotte Hornets. Good enough for them.

Right on. It's not pretending, it's just becoming a team named the Charlotte Hornets, which the fans want. I've said that I am against the Kings changing their name to the Supersonics if they move to Seattle, but that's because they have a lineage going back 60 something years. The Bobcats are a historical trainwreck of a franchise with a horrible name, and they've had nothing but terrible jerseys and logos throughout their existence. Not only would we be losing one of the worst identities in the NBA, but we'd be regaining one of the better ones. So, yeah. I don't care that this is not the original Hornets franchise. They can just be a team called the Charlotte Hornets.

[OnWis97]

The Bobcats were never the Hornets. Pretending they were would be stupid. Which is why I expect this sad, flailing franchise to go through with it.

Regardless of the franchise history, "Hornets" is an appropriate team name for the city and region, and is now available since New Orleans is changing their name. I don't see the issue here.

Who has to pretend anything? Charlotte fans need a better identity for their team, and there's one sitting unused that's not only great, it's locally relevant and locally beloved. That's all.

Presuming for the moment that it happens, the franchise itself might not be "going back to" that name, but the city sure is. And sometimes, that's okay.

Bingo. You think the people of Charlotte give a damn about the lineage? They want their team to be the Charlotte Hornets. That's who they grew up cheering for. If it can happen and they want it, who cares if they're only "pretending" about the history. Regardless they're cheering for the Charlotte Hornets. Good enough for them.

Right on. It's not pretending, it's just becoming a team named the Charlotte Hornets, which the fans want. I've said that I am against the Kings changing their name to the Supersonics if they move to Seattle, but that's because they have a lineage going back 60 something years. The Bobcats are a historical trainwreck of a franchise with a horrible name, and they've had nothing but terrible jerseys and logos throughout their existence. Not only would we be losing one of the worst identities in the NBA, but we'd be regaining one of the better ones. So, yeah. I don't care that this is not the original Hornets franchise. They can just be a team called the Charlotte Hornets.

I can live with it, as long as the NBA does not go all "Cleveland Deal" on us.

But in this day in age, I wonder whether the NBA can stop itself.

[rams80]

Who has to pretend anything? Charlotte fans need a better identity for their team, and there's one sitting unused that's not only great, it's locally relevant and locally beloved. That's all.

Presuming for the moment that it happens, the franchise itself might not be "going back to" that name, but the city sure is. And sometimes, that's okay.

Bingo. You think the people of Charlotte give a damn about the lineage? They want their team to be the Charlotte Hornets. That's who they grew up cheering for. If it can happen and they want it, who cares if they're only "pretending" about the history. Regardless they're cheering for the Charlotte Hornets. Good enough for them.

Right on. It's not pretending, it's just becoming a team named the Charlotte Hornets, which the fans want. I've said that I am against the Kings changing their name to the Supersonics if they move to Seattle, but that's because they have a lineage going back 60 something years. The Bobcats are a historical trainwreck of a franchise with a horrible name, and they've had nothing but terrible jerseys and logos throughout their existence. Not only would we be losing one of the worst identities in the NBA, but we'd be regaining one of the better ones. So, yeah. I don't care that this is not the original Hornets franchise. They can just be a team called the Charlotte Hornets.

So now the Hornets can be a historical trainwreck of a franchise?

Oh well, I guess this way there won't be any bitching for a Charlotte Hornets basketball team once this one moves in a decade or two.

[TheOldRoman]

The Hornets can suck while looking good. It's not preferable, but still better than being made to dress like a clown while getting your ass kicked.

[tajmccall]

Specifically 2:28

"We gon' act like this Bobcats s@# nevvvver happened...."

That video was great. Love me some Bomani Jones.

[Bravo96]

McCall, Gothamite, and The Old Roman nailed it. It's not about pretending the name never left. It's about taking back, if only in spirit, that history. What would be wrong with "sharing" the team history? Heck, we in NC don't care about the post-2002 history anyways. Couldn't NOLA have NOLA's history and Charlotte have our own back? I fail to see the harm in that at all.

[IceCap]

Couldn't NOLA have NOLA's history and Charlotte have our own back? I fail to see the harm in that at all.

Well the problem is that the team you have now was founded in 2002. They're the Bobcats. Changing the name to the Hornets won't change the fact that they still started off as the Bobcats in 2002 and aren't the team that Johnson, Mourning, and Bogues played for. If you just want the name back then ok, but it gets silly when you start insisting that we should all pretend the Bobcats and the original Hornets are one in the same to appease your local group-think induced fantasy.

And really, why the Hornets nostalgia anyway? They never made it past the second round of the playoffs, and they were always a tier below the truly great teams of their heyday. I mean they started the teal and purple trend, which was neat until it wasn't anymore, but is this really a team must be brought back, no matter what it does to the historical record? They weren't around long enough to establish a legacy and they didn't accomplish enough to really earn the nostalgic devotion so many people seem to have towards them.

I'll also echo what rams said. If the name is so important to the city because of a Revolutionary War reference then why has it taken so long to change the city's name? Kidding of course, but I think the larger point still stands. That it's a bit silly to play up the Revolutionary War in connection with the name of your local team when your city's still named after the wife of the British king you were rebelling against.

[SJAnfield]

McCall, Gothamite, and The Old Roman nailed it. It's not about pretending the name never left. It's about taking back, if only in spirit, that history. What would be wrong with "sharing" the team history? Heck, we in NC don't care about the post-2002 history anyways. Couldn't NOLA have NOLA's history and Charlotte have our own back? I fail to see the harm in that at all.

I quite agree as well. I'm a major San Jose Earthquakes fan, and our history issue is somewhat similar. We started life as the Clash when the MLS started play in 1996 but the team rebranded as the Earthquakes in 1999, an homage to San Jose's soccer past. Though there had been a span of over 20 years since San Jose had hosted soccer as the Earthquakes, (or at all), with different owners, players, and everything else, today's MLS Earthquakes and its fans consider the Earthquakes' history as one timeline with some holes in it. In fact, today's Earthquakes jersey has "Est. 1974" on the back of the neck.

In 2005, the team left for Houston, won a few championships, and continued on as the Dynamo. In 2008, the Earthquakes returned yet again. The fans and league recognize the history San Jose held. The championships with the players, staff and owners that had donned Earthquakes gear the year before were simply considered another club in our minds. That history belongs to Houston. The championships won in SJ are San Jose's. I imagine its similar for those in cities like Ottawa and Winnipeg. Though the Hornets continued in another city, and Charlotte has some Bobcat in their history, the city and its fans will always identify as the Hornets. I myself (living on the other side of the country) still identify the Hornets with Charlotte. Heck, how many discussion have occurred on this board over whether New Orleans should reclaim the Jazz name? When name originates in a city, that city and its fans tend to keep their claim to that identity long after the team has left.