Chris Kluwe: "Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot"

[IceCap]

Agreed, Ice_Cap - there are two conversations here. One is whether Klewe was cut because of his activism, and the other whether the Vikings harbor at least one homophobic bigot.

As to the second, I really hope not. But Klewe's accusation is serious enough that a full investigation has to be made.

As to the first, I'm quite sure that his activism contributed to the decision to drop him. Corporations as a whole don't appreciate activist employees, and given their first chance to cut him I'm sure they took it. But I don't have a problem with it; it's well within their rights. Just as A&E were will within their rights to suspend (or sadly, not) their homophobic pedophile when his words surfaced.

Huh? I must've missed that part.

Phil Robertson has advocated that men should marry girls at the age of 15.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/31/duck-dynasty-star-phil-robertson_n_4522254.html

Maybe that doesn't make him a pedophile using the clinical definition of the term, but it almost certainly makes him one if we're using the legal definition.

[Kramerica Industries]

It also makes him one if we're using the common sense definition. Unbelievable that there are people who think that way and, furthermore, think it's ok.

[ninersdd]

FWIW his wife was 16 was he married her. Does the marriage age vary in different states?(is it usually 16 or 18?)

[The_Admiral]

It absolutely does. Remember age-of-consent.org? .net? .cx?

[hailstateunis]

Agreed, Ice_Cap - there are two conversations here. One is whether Klewe was cut because of his activism, and the other whether the Vikings harbor at least one homophobic bigot.

As to the second, I really hope not. But Klewe's accusation is serious enough that a full investigation has to be made.

As to the first, I'm quite sure that his activism contributed to the decision to drop him. Corporations as a whole don't appreciate activist employees, and given their first chance to cut him I'm sure they took it. But I don't have a problem with it; it's well within their rights. Just as A&E were will within their rights to suspend (or sadly, not) their homophobic pedophile when his words surfaced.

Huh? I must've missed that part.

Phil Robertson has advocated that men should marry girls at the age of 15.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/31/duck-dynasty-star-phil-robertson_n_4522254.html

Maybe that doesn't make him a pedophile using the clinical definition of the term, but it almost certainly makes him one if we're using the legal definition.

It makes him really, really old-fashioned (which is shown in his other views as well), but it really doesn't put him in the same category as Sandusky.

[IceCap]

Well no, hence why I said he probably wouldn't be diagnosed as a pedophile clinically speaking. Legally though? Marrying a 15 year old girl and consummating the union would certainly qualify as paedophilia from that perspective. The term fits.

And someone's views don't become justifiable just because you hand-wave them away as "old fashion." That may explain those views, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to accept them as being ok.

[Cosmic]

He was 19 or 20 when he married a 16 year old, which I guess isn't totally creepy/weird. If you live in a situation without that artificial high school/college divide, I think the age gap is a lot less meaningful. But since we know he was on the football team in college... it's a little weird. To his credit, 19 or 20 to 16 raises an eyebrow, mostly because you shouldn't be signing up for a life-long commitment at 16, but it's not in the same league as the creepy cult people that have middle-aged men take underage brides... THAT is pedophilia to me.

And I guess we can add "sexist" to growing LGTBQI-like list of descriptors: homophobic, racist, and sexist, too. I found this comment when I was trying to figure out how old he was when he married:

“Make sure that she can cook a meal. You need to eat some meals that she cooks, check that out. Make sure she carries her Bible. That’ll save you a lot of trouble down the road," Robertson said.

He then went on to say that men should wed girls who are young.

“They got to where they're getting hard to find, mainly because these boys are waiting ‘til they get to be about 20 years old before they marry 'em,” Robertson said. “Look, you wait ‘til they get to be 20 years old the only picking that’s going to take place is your pocket. You got to marry these girls when they are about 15 or 16. They’ll pick your ducks."

So, if left without the influence of a husband until the ripe old age of 20, women just turn into gold-digging ^%*&^*?

[Gothamite]

"Marry 'em young, before they're old enough to have their own opinions or stand up for themselves"? Yep, he's a pedophile. Creepy.

[BlueSky]

Let's talk about some sickening comments that aren't in doubt: Oprah's surprisingly candid flash of hate. Be sure to watch the clip because the way she says it is what's disturbing. In print, her words, while hateful, could be taken as a matter-of-fact statement. Her tone and body language make clear though that she's really wishing death on people. Interesting too that she used no qualifiers. For example, many people my age and most who are older are among those who were "marinated." But it's possible for people to see how wrong the prevailing norms are and reject them. Does Oprah give those people a reprieve or is she in the "kill 'em all and let God sort ''em out" camp?

So...where's the outrage?

[IceCap]

There's no doubt about what Phil Robetson is.

As for Oprah, what she said boils down to "racists are bad people." This upsets you? Are you actually mad that she's not being tolerant of the intolerant?

She's not making a judgement call against everyone of your generation. Only the ones who hold racist attitudes. So unless you actually do why the outrage on your part?

[BlueSky]

She wished death on people, man. That doesn't upset you? And where do you get she didn't wish it on everyone? You're reading your own interpretation into it.

===

“There are still generations of people, older people, who were born and bred and marinated in it, in that prejudice and racism, and they just have to die,” Oprah said.

===

Everyone who grew up in a racist environment could be counted in those "generations of people" and she didn't say "those who still hold those views" etc.

I think racists are bad people too. I don't wish death on them.

[IceCap]

She's not saying everyone from your generation needs to die off. Not even everyone from your generation and the region your from. Just racists. If you're not a racist she wasn't talking about you. If you are a racist (not saying you are, it's a hypothetical) then sorry. The intolerant do not deserve tolerance. How is that not a simple concept to grasp?

Look, I'm not going to say "every racist needs to die" but I'm not going to feel bad for them when someone else does.

[BlueSky]

She did say racists need to die. I think she's wrong to say something like that but I really don't care what Oprah thinks. My real issue here is hypocrisy. If some backwater Republican had said anything close to this the media would be screaming it from the rooftops. If anyone remotely noteworthy on the conservative side had said it, the CCSLC High Horse Brigade would be falling over each other to condemn it. Nobody would be making gentle distillations by paraphrasing it ("what she said boils down to..."), that's for sure.

What she said is indefensible but she's Oprah so she gets a pass. Unbelieveable.

[IceCap]

She did say racists need to die. I think she's wrong to say something like that but I really don't care what Oprah thinks. My real issue here is hypocrisy. If some backwater Republican had said anything close to this the media would be screaming it from the rooftops. If anyone remotely noteworthy on the conservative side had said it, the CCSLC High Horse Brigade would be falling over each other to condemn it. Nobody would be making gentle distillations by paraphrasing it ("what she said boils down to..."), that's for sure.

What she said is indefensible but she's Oprah so she gets a pass. Unbelieveable.

For the love of...

Yeah I'm on a bloody high horse because I took offense to a backwater hick with his own tv show saying I'm less of a person. BlueSky, kindly get over yourself and stop with the "but what about the poor, unrepresented bigots who no one stands up for" routine.

The Phil Robertsons of the world aren't jumped on because they're conservative. In fact any conservative with an ounce of decency would want to distance themselves from his views. They're jumped on because they're bigoted crazy people.

I guess rationalizing the crazy bigots to score political points against Oprah and those intolerant liberals is more important then actually dealing with the crazy bigots, eh?

[BlueSky]

All this has to do with Phil Robertson is that some people who make hateful comments get a pass while others don't. That's it. Really. I don't want anyone to stand up for bigots, I want the same exact thing you (say you) want: everyone treated the same.

And for the record, people on both sides are guilty of selective outrage. What bothers me is the hypocrisy of it. Shouldn't we all be offended by hate regardless of the source?

Stop trying to associate me personally with what's being expressed. If you do that you're really missing the point. I no more agree with racists or homophobes than I do with Oprah. All I'm saying is that people need to be objective in opposing hateful points of view.

Here's an example: I'm a conservative but I think Rush Limbaugh is often an idiot. I'm not going to defend, explain or excuse anything stupid he spews just because he's of the same political persuasion.

[IceCap]

I'd agree with you if Oprah said "all Southerners" or "everyone from a current generation." She didn't say either though. She specifically meant racists though. She didn't say what she said about a race, or an ethnicity, or a religion, or a gender, or a sexual orientation, or an entire generation, or an entire region. She specifically went after racists. That's the difference between Phil Robertson's remarks and Oprah's remarks. Phil Robertson's bigoted towards homosexuals and bisexuals, African Americans, and is a misogynist on top of it. Oprah just doesn't like people like Phil Robertson.

Like I said before, I probably wouldn't say what Oprah said myself. It doesn't mean I feel bad about it either. All she did was say something hurtful about people who make it a point to be hurtful towards others.

[BlueSky]

You're giving her a huge benefit of the doubt (and kinda illustrating my point by doing it) but that's fine. We'll agree to disagree though I think her words and the manner in which she delivered them undermines your favorable interpretation. You're stating "what she meant was..." when in reality she may have meant exactly what she said. There's no way to know.

As for the Vikes' coach, it's a shame he will be associated with those comments in some peoples' minds when he may or may not have uttered anything even close. Kluwe may just dislike the guy for whatever reason. Trying to smear someone's reputation is sometimes what people do when they don't like someone.

[IceCap]

The video in the link you posted has been removed from YouTube. All I have to go on is the quotation in the article.

"There are still generations of people, older people, who were born and bred and marinated in it, in that prejudice and racism, and they just have to die."

I don't see how she's talking about anyone other then racists. If you're not a racist then what is there to be offended by?

Of course this is all just nonsense to try and deflect blame from actual bigots. What Mike Priefer allegedly said and what Phil Robertson said must be ok, because look at what Oprah said! Who's the real monster, hmmmmmmm????? [/fauxoutrage]

[BlueSky]

C'mon, man. I try to raise a legitimate point and you're going there? You're better than that and coming back with such BS undermines your credibility.

You could find the clip with minimal effort. I said in my first post about it that it's important to see how she says it.

It's pretty clear to me that she's untouchable for you no matter what she says. Thanks for proving my point.

[IceCap]

Stop trying to associate me personally with what's being expressed. If you do that you're really missing the point. I no more agree with racists or homophobes than I do with Oprah. All I'm saying is that people need to be objective in opposing hateful points of view.

I'm associating you with what's being expressed because you're trying to rationalize bigotry.

Phil Robertson says something homophobic, racist and misogynistic and Mike Priefer allegedly (seriously, did you not read the other two pages of this thread where I gave the man a huge benefit of the doubt?) says something homophibic and all you can do is say "well what about Oprah?"

It's as if you're trying to deflect the criticism aimed at people who say bigoted things by bringing up what Oprah said. Oprah's not the issue here, man. Stop trying to use what she said as a counterpoint to what Priefer allegedly said and what Robertson actually said. It's an attempt to rationalize actual hateful language by moving the goalposts of the conversation. That's what is undermining your own credibility here. And why I'm not giving you much benefit of the doubt. Bringing Oprah into this was nothing more then a way to try to steer criticism away from your own sacred cows.

Maybe that's not what you're trying to do, but that's how it's coming across.

It's pretty clear to me that she's untouchable for you no matter what she says. Thanks for proving my point.

This might surprise you, but I don't care about Oprah. I never watched her show, I never paid attention to her list of recommended books. I only ever paid her any attention that time she gave away free cars and that time Tom Cruise went crazy on her couch. She's like Jay Leno. I know of her, I know other people like her, but she's just sort of part of the background noise of pop culture for me. If she actually said something worth being upset over, I'd be upset over it and I'd lump her in with the Phil Robertsons of the world. She didn't though.