Veras

History of a Fictional Football League (1989 – 44th Victory Bowl)

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As I said, I've always wanted a green-on-green team in this league...now that we got it, PLEASE leave it. (it wouldn't be the same with red thrown in-unless you wanted the dragon to be breathing fire)

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22 hours ago, Veras said:

Thanks for all of the feedback.  Most of you raised the same handful of issues, so I'll respond by topic rather than by quoting each individual post.

 

First, the lack of front legs, which was mentioned by @eick74, @officerpain138, @JTswag187, @Steelman, and @ChicagoOakland.  I'm definitey going to be showing my non-sports nerdy side here, but this is actually the same point that @CodeG was bringing up when drawing a distinction between the logo being a dragon and a wyvern.  My answer to that is that virtually every culture in the world has some sort of dragon myth, and they look different in different places.  A wyvern (of which I do not know the cultural origin), is basically a two-legged dragon that sometimes has a scorpion-like tail for some reason, and was a common feature in European heraldry.  In some places (mostly the British Isles, iirc) such a two-legged creature on a crest would be referred to as a wyvern, while in others (most of the rest of the continent) a two-legged dragon would just be a dragon.

 

Either way, I'm not all that concerned with the lack of front legs.  Both when I designed the initial logo in the late 1960s and when I began working on this, I did several drafts that included four-legged dragons, and the look was always awkward.  Doing it this way looks more aggressive than any of the failed drafts, and I had more luck making the dimensions more square, which I find preferable.  What I was really going for was the look that dragons in Skyrim have, where the wings actually are the arms.  I'll probably go back and make the dark green bit at the top of the wings thicker in an attempt to better display this.

 

There were also some questions about the color of the logo.

 

@Steelman, @FDW, and @KittSmith_95 pointed out the elimination of the red.  I looked at drafts with several different possible color schemes, including a few versions of the red/green combo, but eventually discarded it because they clashed, particularly on the uniform.  I wanted to eliminate the puke green that the team had been wearing, and basically, the shades of green that I liked didn't go well with the shades of red that I liked.  This led me (at the suggestion of @chrisCLEMENT) to look at either a two-toned red or two-toned green color scheme.

 

Which brings us to the issue of how Portland fans would feel about the similarity between their look and Seattle's, raised by @Raymie.  This did cross my mind, and I nearly went with the two-toned red as a result (in fact, I had decided on the red, and only changed my mind a few days ago).  I ended up going with the green despite the similarity because it just seemed like a better fit for the Pacific Northwest, and I thought that the two teams would have different enough looks that it wouldn't be an issue.

 

For your consideration, here are some of the color schemes that I considered (these aren't my original drafts--the dragon changed considerably after I decided on the colors, so there might be some things that look a little odd, particularly on the bottom two):

 

Dragons-color-options.png

 

The uniforms for A looked atrocious, but I could make anything else work.  D seemed a little too close to Chicago's red and black as well as Cleveland's purple and silver, and E was just kind of boring.  I went back and forth between B and C for quite some time, and eventually settled on B for the reasons described above.

 

@Asterix777 and @KittSmith_95 both mentioned that they don't like the black stripes.  I was going to say that the reason that I added those is that one or two NFL teams randomly had minor black stripes on their uniforms in the late 1970s or early 1980s.  Except as I go back and look through GUD to try prove my point, I can't find anyone who actually did that.  So maybe I imagined it?  I'm not sure.  Anyway, I'll take that critique under consideration as I continue to work on finalizing the logo.

 

I'll look at other ways of showing the front leg (as in the one closest to the viewer from the side) without having the outline go all the way around it.

 

Portland is a candidate for that kind of helmet, but one of the reasons that I am doing the league's entire history is so that it can evolve organically.  It was time for the Dragons to make a change, and this made more sense right now.  Similarly, I've been saying all along that I expect LA to end up with a neon green and black color scheme, but if Portland ends up with the two-tone green that becomes very unlikely.  In fact, it may be the Dragons that eventually adopt the look.

 

I'm having a difficult time visualizing what you mean.  I'm not sure how I would leave enough of the body to show the head,wing, and tail, but leave enough off so as to exclude the legs.  I can see what you're talking about with the implied roundel (something like this or this, right?).  That's definitely an interesting suggestion, but I'm not sure that I want to go that abstract.  I'll take a look at it tomorrow though.  This has been the most difficult team from their founding, so if there is a simple way to do it that doesn't require the logo to change again, I wouldn't complain.

 

Yes, but it won't be this major.  Atlanta will adopt a new primary logo, since their old one no longer works on the front of the helmet and doesn't look very good on the side.

 

Langtree is probably the most sought-after candidate, so he may be a tough hire.  Then again, the Captains are a more talented team than the others who are going to be in the market for new coaches, so we'll have to see what happens.

Frankly, I think if it went the other way around, it might've worked better. I think A Dark Green/Light Red (pink) combo would work very for The Dragons at some point down the road.

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On 5/6/2016 at 8:46 PM, Veras said:

Asterix777 and @KittSmith_95 both mentioned that they don't like the black stripes.  I was going to say that the reason that I added those is that one or two NFL teams randomly had minor black stripes on their uniforms in the late 1970s or early 1980s.  Except as I go back and look through GUD to try prove my point, I can't find anyone who actually did that.  So maybe I imagined it?  I'm not sure. 

The Cowboys had/have black around the sleeve stripes, The only use of the color in the uniform. 

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I read green/green, and immediately thought of the Milwaukee Bucks' "Irish Rainbow" jerseys.

I like the green/green. And I don't dislike the black stripes, as it'll help with separation on the color TVs of the time. Maybe when HDTV rolls around, they can drop the black since the technology will allow similar colors to be distinguished.

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19 hours ago, Dan O'Mac said:

I read green/green, and immediately thought of the Milwaukee Bucks' "Irish Rainbow" jerseys.

I like the green/green. And I don't dislike the black stripes, as it'll help with separation on the color TVs of the time. Maybe when HDTV rolls around, they can drop the black since the technology will allow similar colors to be distinguished.

 

I feel like by the time that HDTV rolls around, they'll have changed their uniforms.

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On 5/6/2016 at 7:52 AM, eick74 said:

I wasn't thinking about the color scheme but logo style of the Michigan Panthers. 

I realize now that I left a sentence out of my original response.  I knew what you meant, and I have considered the Dragons as a team that could possibly adopt a helmet style similar to what you're talking about.  I was trying to say that because the teams evolve organically, sometimes my initial plans don't work out.  Since Portland is making a uniform change a few years earlier than would be ideal for a Michigan Panthers style helmet, they might stick with this look through what would be the appropriate time.  Then again, maybe not.  I think I'm going to post Atlanta tomorrow and spend a bit more time on the Portland logo.  If it changes considerably, the helmet might as well.

 

On 5/6/2016 at 11:49 AM, chrisCLEMENT said:

 

On 5/6/2016 at 11:35 AM, mkg74 said:

Wrap around helmets wouldnt be early for '79. The Seahawks helmets were born in  '76. Remember anyone?

 

I vote B as well, keep it as is. Like the 2 green's alot.

IIRC, the Seahawks didn't have "wrap around" helmet logos until the most recent Nike rebrand. The original '76 helmets just had the Seahawk head logo but it never wrapped around to the other side. That being said don't the Railers have a wrap around helmet logo already?

The Seahawks helmet did wrap around to the back, just not quite all the way.  The Railers helmet does wrap all the way around, but I don't think I would call what the Michigan Panthers helmet did wrapping around.  Of course, you could still make a case that it's not too early, as it's 1979 and that helmet was put in use in 1983.

 

On 5/6/2016 at 3:28 PM, chrisCLEMENT said:

@Veras How are teams in the AFA viewing former QB Reggie Hart (USC) after his first professional season in the Northern Football Association? He won the MVP in his rookie season and led his team to a 10-1 regular season record and a victory in the Dominion Cup. Did he do enough to prove he can be a leader at the next level? 

His performance in the Dominion Cup definitely turned some heads in the AFA, but interest is still largely limited to teams that are in desperate need of a QB.  Unfortunately for him, this would mean that he would be stepping into a terrible situation, whether it is the dumpster fire that is the Guardians of Cincinnati franchise; the aging Detroit Gladiators, whose signal caller, Rob Reich, announced his retirement; or a team in the early phases of rebuilding, such as the St. Louis Aces.  None of those situations are more appealing than being the star QB of the best team in the NFA.

 

Though he has had great success in college and in Canada, most teams are still skeptical of his abilities, in no small part due to things that are beyond his control.  The first thing is the lack of respect for the talent north of the border.  Arizona's Tom Bennett was absolutely dominant in the CFA, easily among the greatest quarterbacks in league history during his time with the Toronto Bruins.  However, he has been thoroughly average since coming to the AFA.  Adding to this is a sense that Hart's familiarity with the American rules adopted by the NFA gave him a leg up over the competition.  Many of the more successful executives in the AFA believe that he will regress to the mean in his sophomore season.

 

On 5/6/2016 at 4:26 PM, KittSmith_95 said:

Could the dark green and maroonish red look okay together?

On the logo, yes, but it looked terrible on the uniform.  I'm pretty well set on going green/green.  As steelman pointed out, there is a difference between the shades of green worn by Seattle and Portland, and there isn't a lot of resemblance between the uniforms as they would match up on the field.

 

19 hours ago, rjrrzube said:

The Cowboys had/have black around the sleeve stripes, The only use of the color in the uniform. 

That must have been what I was looking at.  I could have sworn that it was the Rams, but I'm definitely wrong about that.

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2 hours ago, Veras said:

His performance in the Dominion Cup definitely turned some heads in the AFA, but interest is still largely limited to teams that are in desperate need of a QB.  Unfortunately for him, this would mean that he would be stepping into a terrible situation, whether it is the dumpster fire that is the Guardians of Cincinnati franchise; the aging Detroit Gladiators, whose signal caller, Rob Reich, announced his retirement; or a team in the early phases of rebuilding, such as the St. Louis Aces.  None of those situations are more appealing than being the star QB of the best team in the NFA.

 

That was my thoughts on the situation, especially since Vancouver is poised to continue it domination of the NFA for the foreseeable future.

 

For those of you that haven't seen the newest league in the AFA universe go on over and check out the NFA, pick and team and follow along!

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(Veras)

 

you also figure the Panthers helmet was really spawned in 1982, the year the USFL was formed and i'm pretty certain by the tail end of '82 most of the USFL clubs already established their logo identities and uniforms

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With all the Washington Wasps winning will their bee stripe (bengals) helmet still be on the table? Also count me as another voter for the double green look in Portland.

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I've done some more work on the Dragons.  Enough of you were united in dislike of the lack of front legs, so I decided to make a change.  I made an attempt at redrawing how the wings connected to the body to more strongly suggest that they were the front limbs, but I was unsuccessful in doing so.  Rather than start from scratch on the body (something that I have made a few dozen attempts at between this logo and the 1968 version), I went with @darkpiranha's suggestion and cut it off.  I had made drafts like this before, but the smoothness of the neck had always bothered me.  To help with this, I eventually added scales/plates, and changed the shape of the head slightly.

 

With the wings removed from the logo, they no longer make sense on the helmet, and with them removed from the helmet, they make no sense as a secondary logo, so it has been eliminated.  I also added black outlines to the wordmark to increase visibility, and to help establish a precedent of the team using black as an accent, even if it isn't an official team color.

 

revised_portland_dragons_by_verasthebruj


On the uniforms, I toned down the black stripe, and changed the helmet from wings to the team's primary.  I looked at doing a Michigan Panthers kind of thing, but would have to dramatically alter the shape of the head for it to work.  The horns are so long that they run around to the other side of the helmet long before the head is large enough to have the effect that I'm looking for.

 

revised_portland_dragons_uniform_by_vera

 

On 5/9/2016 at 8:34 PM, Homer-fan said:

With all the Washington Wasps winning will their bee stripe (bengals) helmet still be on the table? Also count me as another voter for the double green look in Portland.

It seems unlikely that the Wasps will make that change now.  I think I expressed concern when switching to the gold helmet about this happening, but they've won 3 titles in 4 years with that look (and they should be contenders again this year), so the Bengals-style helmet isn't in their immediate future.

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So you listened to ONE "fan" who disliked it over the many who did...#BringBackTheWings

@darkpiranha, I hope you're happy...

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I don't think anybody said that they didn't like the wings (though I honestly didn't).  A lot of people didn't like the fact that the body had only two legs, and the wings were removed as collateral damage in the process of attempting to correct that.  To clarify, are you saying that you prefer the full body logo to just the head, that you prefer the winged helmet to the one with the logo, or both?

 

For what it's worth, even if they don't go with a winged helmet now, it's likely to happen eventually.  They're a strong candidate to get a wild Oregon like uniform in the 2010s, and when that happens, I'd like to put a dragon flying over the crown of the helmet (similar to what the Comets have now) in which the wings would reach down over the sides.

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I like the new jersey set, but I miss the wings on the helmet. It was a great design and this new helmet feels like a cop-out do to the logo issues.

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The black outline on the head is a definite improvement. I also like the definition of the plates on the back of the neck and the scales up front.

 

Thank you for adding the back horn. It always seemed a little off to me for some reason and now I see what it was. Now it's no longer a lizardy unicorn.

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I could still do a winged helmet, even if the wing isn't in the logo.  I didn't really like the aesthetics of the one that I used before, which is part of the reason that I took it off, but I think I could be okay with something a bit more simple.  Maybe like this:

Dragon-Helmet-Wing.png

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I think you can still do the wings. Just look at the Eagles. Wings on the helmet, even though they don't have wings on their logo.

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lol.  For the record, I'm NOT happy.  I much preferred the wings on the helmet.  My only issue was with the single wing on the back of the dragon where we could see two legs.  And you can have the wings for the helmet and just the head for the regular logo if you want.  It's all dragons.  I'd still do two wings on it though.  

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