Did I get duped?

[jeh-see]

Hey guys! This is a design question so I hope I popped this thread in the right forum. Last year they guys over at clinkroom.com (the same guys that run Brandiose, famous for the chihuahua, the ostrich-riding hot dog vendor and the new cute and cuddly Vermont Lake Monsters identity, among others) ran a fantasy league design contest where participants designed a cap logo, along with a specific back story that meet the criteria of the league they choose. They'd done contests like that before on the site and, usually, had great success with it. The contest they were running at the time I submitted a design was the "Hometown League" in which designs were specific to the great "home towns" across the country. Honestly the design I submitted wasn't even for the contest, it was for a fantasy hockey team I was working on, some of you may remember the design after seeing it on their site, as I posted it here for critique. I had no idea it would go over so well and actually be one of the 6 winning entries. The link the page where winners were announced is here http://www.theclinkroom.com/designed-by-clinkers/hometown-league-winners/ If you read the comments you can see there was a lot of heat over how the winners were chosen (even though there was a vote, it is believed that winners were just picked based on what Casey and Jason thought looked good or needed for other projects...). That all being said, I have some concerns. I received a contract from Casey White (on of the main guys at Brandoise and he runs the Clink Room site) with the particulars of what the design was to be used for, that signing it the design became theirs to use as they wished and my compensation for the design (a free hat with my design on it for myself, I think five others with my design to share pluse 250 bucks in credit to use in their shop to buy other designers' work or some of the minor league baseball hats that Brandiose had done) along with a bunch of legalese. The contract was signed and sent to them mid-May (without looking up the exact dates). I didn't hear a peep from them until I emailed Casey in November wondering when I should expect to see my finished design and/or my winnings. He replied to the jist of they are going through "samples" and that I should expect my design to be completed in "late February or early March". I left it at t hat, because, in all honesty, how the hell do I know how long it takes to turn these things around. Well now we are about two and a half weeks away from a full year since I was a winner of the contest and signed over the design and still haven't been given a single detail about my design or what I am owed for winning. The comments from designers that submitted work that didn't win as well as designers who thought the voting was a sham has me wondering if perhaps I will never see anything from this work. Brandiose has blown up in popularity around the minor league baseball level, rolling out design after design over the winter, maybe they became "too big" to concern themselves with small time contests. One of the winning designs was produced (well two, but they are the same concept by the same designer, the Big Apple one) but it was also the one that Casey raved and raved over. I don't understand why, if nothing else, they cant at least give me my 250 bucks, I obviously WON the contest. Even if they were like "screw that, we arent giving any of those other guys crap" it's not like I have money laying around to sue them and they know that. Hell, even if I did, it's in the contract that any and all legal disputes regarding my design and how it is used will be dealt with in San Diego County and I'd have to go there to fight it. I'm really starting to get the feeling I got dicked over, along with 4 other designers who won and haven't seen there designs come to fruition either.

[89Seminole]

If they're blowing up on Twitter, tweet the negative and see how fast they respond and fix.

[missouri tigers]

Didn't the two "Big Apple" hats get produced, though?

[jeh-see]

yes, thats what im saying, the Big Apple ones that Casey and Jason drooled over got done already, both versions of it, so I know the "samples" must be done

[Whittier S]

Wanting to follow this as I'm supposed to receive my contract this week.

[missouri tigers]

yes, thats what im saying, the Big Apple ones that Casey and Jason drooled over got done already, both versions of it, so I know the "samples" must be done

I understand, I just somehow managed to read over part of your original post.

[jeh-see]

Wanting to follow this as I'm supposed to receive my contract this week.

See, this doesn't help ease my feelings, either. They are contracting more work done by free, outside sources, when they haven't followed through on their current/prior obligations. I need to pull out my original contract and read through it for any statute of limitations on them complying with the agreement before it becomes null and void (which I am willing to bet my life isn't in there). Whittier, do what I didn't....don't get so excited that you won that you trust that they come through with the arrangement. If memory serves, isn't the compensation for the contest you just won an actual cash prize? If that's the case, then I would seriously get some answers before returning the contract. If they are dragging their feet on paying out a gift card to THEIR store, then I can't imagine what the lag would be to pay out cash.

[Clintau24]

I learned about the site from a member on here, bookmarked it, and was hoping to come up with something at some point in the future. Now I'm worried to do that...

[jeh-see]

Well let me lay all my cards on the table here. I have followed the site and admired their work for a few years now. It was the interest in the site and the fact that they DID run contests where designers got their hats made and some of them became great hits and they can't keep them stocked in their store long enough. It was this "right before my eyes" proof that I had no qualms about submitting work and had no concern that I wouldn't be given what I was told I'd be given, especially once a legal contract was busted out. But in the year that has past since the contest ended and winners were determined and announced, the boys at Brandiose have busted out the El Paso Chihuahuas, Akron RubberDucks, Philadelphia Fightin's, rebrands of the Inland Empire 66ers, Vermont Lake Monsters, Columbus Knights and made new alternate marks for the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs (a client they did the branding for a couple years back), and that's just the sports stuff because I know they rolled out some Toy Story branding for Hasbro or Mattel (I forget which). I think they have just attainted more success and notoriety and can now afford to just blow off the little people that were, not only, fans but people that were inspired to get into the industry. I guess, at the end of all this, even if I'm not going to get what was promised, that's fine, but I want the contract destroyed or nullified so that all rights to my work are my own again and I want them to have the balls to say "eh, we just don't have time for you now but thanks. buh-bye".

My advice to anyone that has won since (Whittier) or is contemplating entering their current "open-ended, no deadline" contest (which is funny, it takes any of the obligatory elements out of the contest for them), ask questions before signing anything. When can I expect my compensation? When should I expect to see my finished design? What are my rights concerning the design should you not follow through? Do you run the risk of them saying "well f-ck off, we will just award the prize to the next, less inquisitive schumck"? I am sure you do, obviously if I knew where their heads were, I wouldn't have had any reason to start this thread. But here is what we need to keep in mind. They will make money off our designs. The designs will, no matter how much later than sooner they will be made, be sold in their stores and they will make a lot more off the hats/designs than they offered us to design the work, so they have no worries about the time frame to put up or shut up.

Now, on a lighter note, if I know my luck, I will check the site tomorrow and my design will be up, in all it's glory.

[Clintau24]

If I were you, I'd go sit down with a lawyer for a little bit (I'm currently finishing up a course in Business Law at Auburn). I don't think they will charge you for just talking. You know, as long as they have the time and such. I can give you my law teacher's contact info if you're interested. Those guys certainly did their duties when they had you sign everything over. There's probably more legaleze in their that say you can't fight back regardless, but who knows.

I don't know about those other logos. Some rebrandings and such take a long time to get finished. Some of those could have been in the works for a while, but some could have been completed within this year.

I hate it for you man. I'm really hoping you have the same luck as I usually do, they just forgot about it or it got placed under a giant stack. I hope all this gets worked out for you.

[derschwigg]

I don't think you've been duped, per se. I'm on the Clink Room a bit, and they have been busting out revamps/new brands left and right. They're at least maintaining the appearance of being SUPER BUSY, and might honestly not have gotten to your work yet.

That said, I don't think you're in the wrong for worrying. Maybe send them an email (so it's in writing) with your concerns - I've talked with Jason and Casey in the past, they're pretty down to earth and very customer service minded. I'm sure they'd be at least willing to talk with you about it.

[jeh-see]

I don't think you've been duped, per se. I'm on the Clink Room a bit, and they have been busting out revamps/new brands left and right. They're at least maintaining the appearance of being SUPER BUSY, and might honestly not have gotten to your work yet.

That said, I don't think you're in the wrong for worrying. Maybe send them an email (so it's in writing) with your concerns - I've talked with Jason and Casey in the past, they're pretty down to earth and very customer service minded. I'm sure they'd be at least willing to talk with you about it.

Oh I know they are down to earth guys, I have talked to them, personally, myself. I did reach out to Casey right after Thanksgiving, just feeling out the time frame I should expect to see something concerning my design, that's when he replied about "samples" and "late February, early March". I have kept every scrap of paperwork/correspondence since the get-go. But see, that friendly, "just normal guys like you" demeanor they had (just going on my current experiences) kinda bites them in the ass, too, since I emailed them Thursday and got no reply. For now, and because of past dealings with them, I am going to chalk that up to the Easter holiday weekend. The Clink Room site was finally updated today, for the first time since April 15 (also attributing to the Easter holiday, I'm sure) but the update is about "Making Cricket Balls in 1950-something," which has NO bearing on design on any level. I'm going to give them a chance to catch up from the Easter holiday, say til Monday and if they haven't replied, I will email again stating my concerns. If I haven't had some sort of solution presented to me or gotten compensated/had the design finished by the beginning of June (13 months after my contract signing), I will follow Clintau24's advice and, at least, get some consultation from an attorney. Yeah, its 250 bucks in a Hat Club/Clink Store credit, but what I want more is the pride and satisfaction of knowing people can enjoy my design on a hat.

I reached out to Jesse Velleu, a fellow winner in the same contest, via Behance yesterday, to see if he had gotten any info from them about his design but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.

[jeh-see]

Well, I got two optimistic pieces of news today. Jesse Velleu replied back on Behance and told me that he has won two other contests through Clink Room before this one and the turn around time on this contest is the shortest he's seen yet. The other two he won took over a year to complete, and the delay is always on New Era's side, not Brandiose's. And Casey, himself, got ahold of me this morning, my hat is due to be released in June. So, I gues, all-in-all, I got all the answers and advice I needed from my fellow Creamers and from fellow Clinkers. And, at least for now, I fell like, no, I have not been duped!

UniJ

[Clintau24]

Good to hear!

[mcrosby]

I've always been tempted to enter those contests over at the Clink Room, but I always worry about the motives, the legal endgame, and everything you've been worried about. It's tough to sign away your work for $250 that you have to spend with them.

I'd like to think the Brandiose guys are alright, but I've never felt entirely comfortable with them.

[DelayedPenalty]

They have been notoriously slow to get these contest winning designs produced. Doesn't surprise me in the least that New Era would be the holdup. But, afterall, this is a side project for Jason and Casey, their business is blowing up, and I can see how New Era might not be motivated to make fan submitted designs a huge priority.

Glad everything is working out for you!

[jeh-see]

I've always been tempted to enter those contests over at the Clink Room, but I always worry about the motives, the legal endgame, and everything you've been worried about. It's tough to sign away your work for $250 that you have to spend with them.

I'd like to think the Brandiose guys are alright, but I've never felt entirely comfortable with them.

I was just ignorant to the whole process and was beginning to worry and I never thought about fault lying on the cap producers. And for me, the 250 bucks in credit is nice and, believe me, I will use it, they have great stuff in their store, but I did it for other reasons. I wanted to put my design up against some of the best designs and see how I fared, and now having won I can puff out my chest while wearing my design and knowing others can, too. And it's a great portfolio filler, as well.

UniJ