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Arena Football: Return of Glory Days?


Tyrano123

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One minor correction above: The Detroit Fury entered the league in 2001. The Los Angeles Avengers were the Carolina Cobras' expansion partners in 2000.

There was a strong belief that the NFL would buy the 49% it had an option for back in the day. That was probably the last chance for glory days, although "NFL Indoors" might not have been same. When they didn't, well... here we are.

I was into it for a long time. I guess the Rush debacles were the final straws for me. I haven't paid attention this year. It's more apathy than protest.

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I think things went downhill when they left NBC after 2006.

No, the structural problems were there before. The "Emperor is buck naked in broad daylight" moment for the league was when they dissolved the Firebirds in 2004 because the only sale price the franchise could get was IIRC roughly a quarter of the asking price for an expansion team.

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Heh, I was just going to bring that up, Rams. That's when everything got good and stinky.

Remember how David Baker just kinda up and left about a year before everything hit the fan? Gee, wonder what he saw coming.

On 1/25/2013 at 1:53 PM, 'Atom said:

For all the bird de lis haters I think the bird de lis isnt supposed to be a pelican and a fleur de lis I think its just a fleur de lis with a pelicans head. Thats what it looks like to me. Also the flair around the tip of the beak is just flair that fleur de lis have sometimes source I am from NOLA.

PotD: 10/19/07, 08/25/08, 07/22/10, 08/13/10, 04/15/11, 05/19/11, 01/02/12, and 01/05/12.

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It's been said among AFL circles Kurz is stepping down after the year ends, so that means the AFL's future may be even brighter now. I do think things are gradually on the right track and the league has a chance to carve out a stable niche.

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I think things went downhill when they left NBC after 2006.

No, the structural problems were there before. The "Emperor is buck naked in broad daylight" moment for the league was when they dissolved the Firebirds in 2004 because the only sale price the franchise could get was IIRC roughly a quarter of the asking price for an expansion team.

Heh, I was just going to bring that up, Rams. That's when everything got good and stinky.

Remember how David Baker just kinda up and left about a year before everything hit the fan? Gee, wonder what he saw coming.

My thoughts exactly. How has this guy not been investigated yet? Also, wasn't the league payroll something like $3.5M while the cost for expansion rights was only $2M? Plenty of opportunity to bring in suckers there.

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I think things went downhill when they left NBC after 2006.

You have to remember that NBC only got the AFL because their sports division was being decimated by the losses of the NFL, MLB and NBA throughout the turn of the millennium. NBC signed contracts with non-traditional sports in the early and mid-2000s to stem the bleeding (XFL, AFL, Gravity Games, NASCAR (though it was their most well-noted acquisition of this era)). But even with NBC as a broadcast partner, most of their games involved either the Chicago Rush or Philadelphia Soul (I think more than half their games involved at least one of those teams). And the production of their games would have only qualified as a passable substitute to 2pm Saturday informercials, especially during the summer. Yes, NBC made the sport more broadly exposed, but the production was made just as a sports substitute until the major leagues opened up again to network broadcasters (to which NBC eventually grabbed the NHL and NFL to fill the void).

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So I'm wondering, what do you all believe needs to be done to get the Arena Football league back to the glory days of 2000-2008?

What would you do differently if you were commissioner of the AFL today?

Nothing will resurrect Arena Football to its 'salad days,' which probably weren't in the 2000's but rather the early to mid 1990's. From a business case study perspective, the AFL was already on its slope toward going under as early as 2000.

I would argue that the slope started much later. In the early-to-mid-2000s, the AFL did have a network deal, it had new high-profile owners, video games, trading cards, and increased attendance.

The slope downward started in 2006 or so, IMO.

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So I'm wondering, what do you all believe needs to be done to get the Arena Football league back to the glory days of 2000-2008?

What would you do differently if you were commissioner of the AFL today?

Nothing will resurrect Arena Football to its 'salad days,' which probably weren't in the 2000's but rather the early to mid 1990's. From a business case study perspective, the AFL was already on its slope toward going under as early as 2000.

I would argue that the slope started much later. In the early-to-mid-2000s, the AFL did have a network deal, it had new high-profile owners, video games, trading cards, and increased attendance.

The slope downward started in 2006 or so, IMO.

You'd lose that argument. And you'd be exactly the kind of guy David Baker would've wanted to sell a franchise to had you the wherewithall: "Look at all this! We're on TV! We've got our own video game! Here, have a set of AFL trading cards, and a seat at our sold-out arena!"

Only the TV deal didn't bring in any serious revenue, the video game even less, a good bit of some teams' attendance figures were papered over (viz., freebies) and teams were losing millions a year. The only way some of those teams stayed around as long as they did, even in the late 90's/early 2000's, was the promise of an annual flow of "expansion money" as Baker kept finding suckers to award/relocate teams for. And when that supply dried up, the whole thing blew away.

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Here's a good time to ask this: Did anybody else buy the Arena Football video game that was out in like 2006? That kinda started the end of the glory days, but it was a very entertaining game, IMO.

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Here's a good time to ask this: Did anybody else buy the Arena Football video game that was out in like 2006? That kinda started the end of the glory days, but it was a very entertaining game, IMO.

Yes. Both EA Sports PS2 games, and a PS1 Kurt Warner Football, too.

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Here's a good time to ask this: Did anybody else buy the Arena Football video game that was out in like 2006? That kinda started the end of the glory days, but it was a very entertaining game, IMO.

Actually bought both PS2 games and are addictively fun to play.

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So I'm wondering, what do you all believe needs to be done to get the Arena Football league back to the glory days of 2000-2008?

What would you do differently if you were commissioner of the AFL today?

Nothing will resurrect Arena Football to its 'salad days,' which probably weren't in the 2000's but rather the early to mid 1990's. From a business case study perspective, the AFL was already on its slope toward going under as early as 2000.

I would argue that the slope started much later. In the early-to-mid-2000s, the AFL did have a network deal, it had new high-profile owners, video games, trading cards, and increased attendance.

The slope downward started in 2006 or so, IMO.

You'd lose that argument. And you'd be exactly the kind of guy David Baker would've wanted to sell a franchise to had you the wherewithall: "Look at all this! We're on TV! We've got our own video game! Here, have a set of AFL trading cards, and a seat at our sold-out arena!"

Only the TV deal didn't bring in any serious revenue, the video game even less, a good bit of some teams' attendance figures were papered over (viz., freebies) and teams were losing millions a year. The only way some of those teams stayed around as long as they did, even in the late 90's/early 2000's, was the promise of an annual flow of "expansion money" as Baker kept finding suckers to award/relocate teams for. And when that supply dried up, the whole thing blew away.

I worked part-time for the Georgia Force in the early-mid 2000's, and was shocked to see just how much free stuff was given out. And how much free stuff was leftover just because they didn't have enough folks to give them to.

I suspect that the sponsors bled money too, and that they greatly reduced...if not backed out entirely...due to the AFL and their expenses.

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I think the ESPN deal was the final unraveling. ESPN bought into the league - actually purchased a stake in it - and then when they pulled back the curtain, there was nothing pleasant to be found.

I owned Kurt Warner's Arena Football Unleashed, and the first PS2 AFL games. Both games were incredibly fun, arcade-style football, but also felt they they were rushed in production and kind of incomplete. Perfect for the league, really.

Ah well, I'll always have memories of going to sold-out (for real!) Rush games at the Allstate and having tons of fun. Those days are never, ever coming back, so I'm just glad I got to experience them while they lasted.

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On 1/25/2013 at 1:53 PM, 'Atom said:

For all the bird de lis haters I think the bird de lis isnt supposed to be a pelican and a fleur de lis I think its just a fleur de lis with a pelicans head. Thats what it looks like to me. Also the flair around the tip of the beak is just flair that fleur de lis have sometimes source I am from NOLA.

PotD: 10/19/07, 08/25/08, 07/22/10, 08/13/10, 04/15/11, 05/19/11, 01/02/12, and 01/05/12.

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It was definitely a unique sports experience. I support it in the sense of families could afford it easily and have a great time. Also gives them a bit of a taste of football when the college and NFL seasons were finished. Not quite my cup of tea, though.

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I miss the Georgia Force and the Dallas Desperados.

I miss the Los Angeles Avengers. Hell, I'll be willing to put up an argument as to why, aesthetic-wise, they'd have the perfect logo, color and uniform scheme to play in the NFL (preferably the AFC West).

But that belongs in the "Pointless Realignment" thread. For another day...

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The series will probably be pretty dumb, but it's good exposure for the league. There has been quite a few attendance bumps around the league this year and not just from LA. Orlando was forced into UCF's basketball arena and had to endure their worst attended season in franchise history, but they've been bankrolled by a new owner, big business mogul David Siegel who owns Westgate Resorts and businesses in real estate, timeshares, construction, hotel and apartment management, travel services, insurance, transportation and retail. He just inked a deal to put the team back in Amway so some things are looking up around the league.

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