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  1. 4 likes
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    The point is the principle that historical events should be recorded as they actually happened. In this particular case, the principal was violated just so the Yankees' history wouldn't be contaminated by events in another city. Even when I was a Yankee fan I would have thought that that was cheesy. And in the Browns' case, it was done in order to ensure that there would be no lawsuits. This reasoning is less cheesy than the reasoning in the Yankees case, but no less dishonest. This "it's just sports" line of argument just will not do at all. Earlier in the thread, the phenomenon of anti-Stratfordianism was mentioned. Someone could similarly dismiss that assault on history: What does it matter? It's just a bunch of stories. You might wish to retort that literature matters, and sports do not. But we could easily find people who would maintain that sports matter and literature does not. The truth is that both of these things matter — and for the same reason. That reason is that both literature and sports are pillars of our culture. But no independent accounts will ever have the weight of a league's official record book. As you should. However, your good practice influences precisely no one, while a league's official history informs what the vast majority of people now and in the future will accept as real. This describes how it would have been if the NFL had created a new expansion team in Baltimore and had granted it to Art Modell, and if the Browns had actually gone on hiatus in the way one NFL team did during World War II. But what actually happened was that the franchise moved, and was originally going to be called the Baltimore Browns. Then litigation was threatened, so the league came up with the plan to play "let's pretend" with the facts of history in order to appease the would-be litigants. The stakes are neither low nor localised, because every act of this sort encourages more of them. MLS specifically cited the Cleveland Browns when it cooked up the fantasy version of the history of the San Jose Earthquakes' move to Houston. More fundamentally, this practice erodes the value of intellectual honesty.
  3. 2 likes
    Then you haven't been here long enough.
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    I'm not going to maintain literature doesn't matter, but it's ridiculous that people on this site say sports don't matter. Sports are a major part of our identity. Hell, you can't truly understand the history of the United States without baseball. Sports have played a major part of the civil rights movement, played a role in the cold war, helped repair relations with Japan after WW2, created some of our most noted celebrities, provides insight to labor issues, antitrust, regularly gets roped into politics, national and local. Sure, what name a team uses may not appear that big of a deal, but recording those histories correctly can provide insight on how capitalism and consumerism impact sports in more ways than people realize. Hell, we talk about that every single day here. We should preserve history as best we can, even if the matters seem trivial, because that's how future generations learn and adapt. Besides, isn't it easier to just pretend the new Hornets are the old hornets if it means that much to you than bending over backwards to rewrite history?
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    The inspiration for this topic is the Buffalo Sabres, who are NOT ignoring their 90s identity. Many teams wear throwbacks of identities they started using in the 80s or before, but sadly it seems a lot more rare for teams to wear throwbacks of identities they started using in the 90s.
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    That's the only time I read! FREE PIZZA!!
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    OK after reading the article about the Montreal people and the email from the Rays (thanks @Survival79 for posting) I think it's pretty clear that they do not actually intend to split seasons between Montreal and Tampa Bay but they have to act like they do in order to make one of the two cities bite on a stadium. I would be very interested to see how they reacted if neither city bites by 2027 or whenever and they actually have to go through with this.
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    Subtle tweaks for the New Jersey Rogues. 1966-67: New for 1968: C&C Welcome.
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    Up next we have the Hibbing-Chisholm Bluejackets. Hibbing High School and Chisholm High School Nickname: Bluejackets Enrollment: 975 combined Rival(s): Virginia Class: A State Titles: 2 (1952, 1973) State Tournament Appearances: 13 (1952, 1967, 1970, 1973, 1974,1982, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1994, 2003, 2004, 2011) Home: Hibbing's current home is ok, it is the Wild's pre Adidas green jerseys in white and blue with Hibbing on the front. I decided to use the three stripe style that they have used in the past because I think it gives a good vintage look while being colorful enough. I put the schools official logo on the front of the jersey. Away: The away is a blue version of the new jersey. It is replacing their current away which is actually very similar to the new jersey just with a new logo. Alternate: THROWBACK TIME!!! For the alternate I decided to use a throwback to what they used in the 80s. It features a lighter blue and the addition of red, it also uses a script "Hibbing" on the front. Next up will be the International Falls Broncos. Let me know what you think, comments are appreciated!
  10. 1 like
    I prefer all my history, even the inconsequential parts like SPORTS, to reflect what actually happened.
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    Millionaires being paid by Billionaires. They're all :censored:ing wealthy. Next.
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    There are a whole lot of snowflakes who complain about other people they think are snowflakes. We need a term for it.
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    You know the bengals got their original look from the browns right?
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    I noticed that and I actually tried a few of your suggestions but I ended up with a lot of gold-on-white which I'm trying to avoid. As much as I want to make it different from Boston I also felt like emphasizing gold threw off the color balance quite a bit.
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    And that’s totally fine.
  16. 1 like
    San Diego NFL fans punching air right now as I O W A got a football team. I O W A.
  17. 1 like
    The noses of Sternberg and everyone else involved with this email just grew 10 feet.
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    Next up is Golden State and LA! C&C appreciated!
  19. 1 like
    Don't call me that word. I don't like things that elevate me above the other people. I'm just like you! Oh, sure, I come later in the day, I get paid a lot more, and I take longer vacations, but I don't like the word "boss."
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    A bird expert sets out to update inaccurate bird logos. His journey is below. Might be worth a look in you're trying to kill 5-10 min at work. https://deadspin.com/lets-fix-all-the-bird-logos-in-pro-sports-1835815252
  21. 1 like
    I count records the way I think they should be counted, not the way someone (even the league) tells me to. The '01-'02 Orioles are part of the Yankees. The old Cleveland Browns are the Ravens, and the new Cleveland Browns are an expansion team. The records of the Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers, Brooklyn Nets and San Antonio Spurs count their ABA time as much as their NBA time, and indeed so do the records of defunct ABA teams. As do the BAA, the NBL, AAFC, the three earlier AFLs, the Federal League, and the National Association. As you said, it's just sports; I can count it the way I want. As the joke goes, If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? Four. Calling a tail a leg does not make it one.
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    It started with fans of the original logo. It was meant to be derogatory but it stuck and now pretty much everyone calls it that, even people who like the logo.
  23. 1 like
    The Athletics' colors were red and blue for the first 62 years of their history. It wasn't until Charlie Finley changed the colors in 1963 that green and gold appeared.
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    Even if it is a gambit (and it appears to be), it's still a very stupid gambit. Usually when teams try to demand a taxpayer-funded palace that 90% of the aforementioned taxpayers will never be able to afford to go to, they usually use a separate city exclusively as a proverbial gun to the head of local/state governments. This is the equivalent of painting a banana to look like a gun while pretending its a gun.
  25. 1 like
    The Giants fans I know all embrace the totality of the Giants history. But as you said, a lot of that probably has to do with the lack of titles during the SF run. Even with the 3 this decade, and honestly we should have 4 if Dusty doesnt blow it in Game 6, I still take pride in the fact that my team is one of the oldest in baseball history and has had 2 homes. NY and SF.
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    Not swirly enough. i always thought it looked like Barney Rubble’s
  27. 1 like
    I'm willing to bet that what lies under the surface here is memories of the people like Donald Sterling pulled, which might also be prompting the push.
  28. 1 like
    @Ark You see 90s nostalgia pop up where it was notable, I think. The Raptors embrace 90s throwbacks, as an example. As do the Hornets. And the Coyotes. The Canucks are throwing back to their early/mid 90s look this upcoming season. As are the Rockets. And the Sabres are, to an extent. The Ducks have as well. So I think it’s incorrect to say 90s throwbacks get no love. They certainly do.
  29. 1 like
    80s nostalgia is high right now. In about 5-10 years, I'm sure you'll start to see more 90s throwbacks. It hasn't been that long since the 90s, so just give it some time and then teams will start rolling them out.
  30. 1 like
    A’s jacked. Gotta admit, I admire the civic pride Vet’s showing, still salty about the A’s leaving Philly. That’s dedication.
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    Charlottesville Alliance FC Nickname: C'ville Alliance Home field: Charlottesville High School Stadium, Charlottesville, VA Founded: 2016 Titles: - Logo: I used their actual logo, as it looked fairly cool and unique Kit: The home kit is inspired by their logo and the clash kit is a darker take on the striped jersey. For reference the actual home kit
  34. 1 like
    The Athletics name and overall branding can fit with any city so changing it makes no sense to me
  35. 1 like
    I agree with this wholeheartedly! Problem is, ditching a brand as valuable as the A's brand (Which has survived several cities already) is, very much so, a bad take. No matter where you wanna put it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  36. 1 like
    Hockey should only have 4 types of banners: Presidents’ Trophy, Regular Season Division, Conference, and Stanley Cup. None of these “Eastern Conference Regular Season” or “Divisional Playoff”. Teams that hang those up are those that just want to give the illusion that they’ve accomplished a lot by hanging a lot of banners, when in reality, they’ve done absolutely nothing.
  37. 1 like
    That’s because the Ravens’ identity was so well-crafted and they had so much success within the first few years. It was locally-flavored, handled period design conventions well, and the team was winning not long into their run. Let’s not kid ourselves by suggesting that a lack of success on both the Charlotte and New Orleans ends played at least a partial role in the Hornicans/Horncats’ branding fiasco. Also, Indy didn’t rebrand upon moving. If Indy had done that (as they probably should have), we wouldn’t have this discussion. We’d have the Baltimore Colts back (but probably no records continuation) and Indianapolis would have their own locally-relevant identity. Honestly, I don’t want that in this scenario, as the Ravens’ identity runs laps around that of the Colts for a Baltimore team. But I digress. It’s making the best of a bad situation. I’d rather obviate the bad situation by adopting local names upon moving. San Francisco Seals, NL Los Angeles Angels, Oakland Oaks, Atlanta Firebirds/Phoenixes, and Kansas City Blues/Milwaukee Brewers MK I all sound good to me. How many people in Oakland genuinely give a damn about Jimmy Foxx and Lefty Grove? Do Giants fans, aside from a few (like me), really care about pre-1951 players and titles (especially now that the Giants have championships in San Francisco)? Are Atlanta Braves fans clamoring for statues of the 1914 team? Outside of Jackie Robinson and players that made the move from Brooklyn to LA, do Dodgers fans emphasize the importance of legendary Brooklyn players (e.g., Wilbert Robinson and Rube Marquand)? This even applies to other sports. Do Lakers fans really give a crap about George Mikan? Are Atlanta Hawks fans ecstatic about St. Louis throwbacks? Should Arizona Cardinals fans pretend to care about the pre-Super Bowl titles won in Chicago? Do the majority of Dallas Stars followers genuinely care about pre-Barons merger North Stars? Are Colts fans really going to care about Baltimore players outside of maybe Unitas (who wouldn’t reciprocate the attention)? If you stuck by my rhetorical rambling, you’d get the sense that pre-relocation history is often only relevant when the team needs it to be for marketing purposes. The Giants chose to emphasize their New York history because there was extensive roster carryover between NY and SF, but also because the team had won zero titles since 1954 and wanted to assert a “championship legacy.” The O’Malleys were reticent to acknowledge Brooklyn outside of retired numbers, only really emphasizing it after companies like Mitchell & Ness and artists like Spike Lee made it commercially viable to do so. The Braves had a fairly similar look and extensive roster sharing between all three locations (as well as a successful Milwaukee stint) that enabled them to market their past while still being “on brand.” The A’s turned to their history as part of the Haas family’s branding efforts, to re-establish the team as a legacy club after Finley’s brand rejected the team’s pre-Finley history (outside of the name and basic uniform template) and after the A’s were in non-contention. Note how the only times they’ve thrown back to the terrible Kansas City stint have been in green/gold uniforms that might as well be 1969-71 kits. It isn’t so much a noble commitment to history as it is a desire to optimally brand the team for merchandising and free agency purposes. A championship legacy sells tickets and gets free agents to sign.
  38. 1 like
    If the Cleveland Jaguars is all you can get, it's what you'll root for. Baltimore loved the Colts so much they named their CFL team after them and pretended to care about CFL, yet they still love the Ravens.
  39. 1 like
    Fans' loyalties and the record books are two different things. Obviously fans are going support their new home team, and see it as a continuation of the old team. But that is a separate issue from the official records. I don't know how much you are up on baseball history, but the event of a team moving away from a city and then being replaced by a new expansion team happened in baseball in 1961. Calvin Griffith moved the Washington Senators to Minnesota; and the American League put a new Senators expansion team in Washington. But Major League Baseball kept the records straight: the Senators/Twins were one franchise, and the new Senators (eventually to become the Texas Rangers) were another franchise. This is how the Cleveland Browns affair should have been handled. And that is probably how it would have been handled if the NFL had not felt the need to invent this cocamamie scheme of "leaving the history" in an effort to stave off litigation. (Indeed, at Modell's introductory press conference in Baltimore, the Maryland governor introduced Modell as "the owner of the Baltimore Browns". So there was no doubt that the franchise had gone to Baltimore, not into hiatus.) More recently, the NHL has kept its franchise lineages straight, affirming in its records that the original Jets franchise (now the Arizona Coyotes) is distinct from the current Jets franchise (the former Atlanta Thrashers). Again, this does not prevent the Winnipeg fans from rooting for their home team and connecting both Jets teams in their hearts. Baseball has not yet f-ed up the record books (apart from the Baltimore / New York thing from 1903). But the prospect of a new Montreal Expos (even more than a relocation of the A's) makes me nervous.
  40. 1 like
    The Browns, Hornets/Pelicans, the Quakes, and maybe the Thunder (if Seattle gets a new team) did, but they are outliers. That is, in a sense, exactly what they did. The Browns situation created the fantasy that the Browns went on hiatus for a few years, and that the Ravens were a new expansion team. And the San Jose Earthquakes copied that exact pattern when they moved to Houston, but somehow metaphysically "left their history" (which is emphatically not a thing) in San Jose. And we all know about the fiasco involving the 1988 Hornets/Pelicans franchise and the 2004 Bobcats/Hornets franchise, whereby the history books now show a continuous Hornets franchise dating back to 1988 (with a few years under the nickname Bobcats), and date the origin of the Hornets/Pelicans franchise to 2002 (when the original Hornets moved to New Orleans). In all of these cases, the history books literally contain fiction. This practice amounts to a cultural crime. The examples from the world of sports are certainly not as serious as the denial of war crimes or the perpetuation of Confederate myths, However, the sports examples compare quite directly to anti-Stratfordianism, in that they both involve cultural touchstones, and the way these gigantic cultural entities are to be understood. And I would say that this practice of rewriting sports history is even more destructive than a theory such as the Black Athena theory. The Black Athena theory is similar to the claim that Native Americans originated in the Americas, a non-scientific theory that contrasts with the proven fact that their anscestors migrated from Asia. The non-historic theories are not to be taken literally; but they can do some good in broadening the perspective of historians and in countering some Eurocentric biases. The Black Athena theory and the Native origin theory are fringe ideas; they are, in the end, harmless, because they do not derail serious historical study, as anyone studying either matter in the future will be able to learn the scientifically valid version of events. By contrast, the altered histories of the Browns, Earthquakes, and Hornets have now become the mainstream histories. Once these events pass from living memory, people who study the matter by looking back at the official records will have no way of knowing that the records are fake. Well, the team did wear a patch in honour of John McMullen that acknowledged its time in Colorado. (This happened after Lamoriello left; though I am not sure why that is significant.) Often, but not always. Twenty years ago, the Brewers became the first team to wear Pilots throwbacks. Maybe. Baseball has generally been far better than the other sports as far as preserving the integrity of its record books. The only example of a bad act in baseball's history is the practice of ignoring the 1903 franchise relocation of the Baltimore Orioles to New York. This is a fascinating history, in which the American League tried to capitalise on the National League's contraction of the Baltimore Orioles (among other teams) after the 1899 season by bringing in John McGraw and his rowdy Orioles players for a new Baltimore Orioles team starting in 1901. But AL founder/president Ban Johnson underestimated just how wild McGraw's bunch were, and in 1902 attempted to suspend McGraw for fighting and for arguing with umpires, In response, McGraw and several other players just quit the club, which had been in financial trouble and was now owned by the owners the National League's New York Giants; and the McGraw rowdies moved to that team. Before the 1902 season was out, the American League nullified the ownership by the Giants people, and took over the club, eventually finding buyers who would move it to New York for 1903. (Side note: McGraw's hatred for Ban Johnson and the American League accounts for the Giants' unwillingness to meet the AL champions in what would have been the second World Series in 1904.) In undue deference to the Yankees, Major League Baseball considers the Baltimore Orioles to have folded after 1902, and considers the 1903 New York team to be a new franchise. If I ever meet official Major League historian John Thorn, I plan to chew him out about this terrible ruling (after I praise him for his excellent mustache). This remains the only exception to baseball's good history of keeping franchise lineages straight. But we cannot take for granted that this will continue at a time during which the ethical values that led to this practice have come under under tremendous pressure. If/when a new team goes to Montreal and takes the name Expos, will Major League Baseball continue the practice reflected in its consideration of the two Washington Senators teams, the three Baltimore Orioles teams, and the two Milwaukee Brewers teams as belonging to different franchises? Or will we see a Hornets-style abomination? The decision that is ultimately taken will be a result mainly of prevailing trends. This is why the vigorous defence of franchise continuity is important (even if we can always conceive of things that are more important).
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    Greater Lowell Rough Diamonds Nickname: GL Diamonds Motto: Training and Character Home field: Tyngsboro Sport Center, Tyngsboro, MA Founded: 2016 Titles: - Logo: The idea was to incorporate a diamond on the center pentagonal panel of a soccer ball. GL and RD are used instead of the full name, to make the logo simpler and more clean. Kit: Both kits have sublimated diamond pattern and display the love and character of the club with their bold colors of canary and black. For reference the actual logo and kits
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    Hartford City FC Nickname: Colts Home field: Al-Marzook Field, Hartford, CT Founded: 2015 Titles: - Logo: The overall shape is based on the colts' factory dome, a peculiar structure of shiny tiles built on top of the factory. The star motif is also taken from the dome and the number of 12 stars was chosen to symbolise the 11 players plus the fans. Kit: It could be possible to make a star-studded jersey, but in the end more is less and just a row of stars has a greater impact than a shirt-ful. The away jersey is an homage to the long gone but never forgotten Hartford Whalers, with the iconic away striping. For reference the actual jerseys and logo
  44. 1 like
    You know, maybe (as a design note) it wasn't a good idea to put a big "N" over a black person.
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