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Showing most liked content on 02/06/2013 in all areas

  1. 9 likes
    Wow, what the hell happened while I was gone? I'm going to try to address everything at once. Illustration drawing style in sports I've seen it mentioned that some don't like the new design because "it's too illustrative... It belongs in a children's book." (paraphrasing) Personally, I don't believe this at all. This is one of my all-time favorite logos, and its rendering is very similar to the Jags logo: Or, an even better and more fitting example: I like both of those designs very much (the animals, not so much the type and settings), and they are extremely "illustrative" and "cartoony." My problem with the new design goes into point 2... Not all that glitters Regardless of which design you prefer; valid criticisms can be made about each. On the old one, I would agree with those that say the jaw is off and the eye is depicted in a strange way. But I also agree with the critiques of the new one that say that it is drawn in a bizarre perspective and there are some questionable shading techniques (no need to rehash what Sterling so magnificently illustrated in the other thread). Everyone's personal design tastes vary, but please recognize that there is rarely a case of "this design is perfection, that design is terrible." However, this takes us to point #3... There is such a thing as good taste... ...or at least such a thing as an informed opinion. Take me for example. I love Kraft Mac & Cheese. I even prefer it over my grandmothers homemade M&C. I don't know why... maybe it's because the Kraft version reminds me of simpler times when I was 5 and all I had to worry about was coloring my NFL Huddles book inside the lines... who knows? Anyway, if I was in a debate with a gourmet chef and his custom macaroni recipe about why his preference is better than my own, I would have to respect his opinion on the matter. Why? Because he studied it, learned the finer points of how to mix ingredients and flavors, and the rules one should act within when cooking. Would the debate with the chef change my own personal opinion on the matter? Probably not. But I can at least recognize that my own choice is probably not as qualified as his. This principle applies to many aspects of life. The local 16 year old is going to have a different opinion on beer than the owner of a brewery. Is one opinion wrong? Not necessarily, but I would say one has more authority to speak on the topic. I enjoy the Nickelodeon show "Victorious" more than "Downton Abbey." I prefer listening to a local pop punk band over the worlds most talented opera singer. It's perfectly fine to enjoy seemingly "lesser" things. But if someone who is much more informed about music or drama comes along and explains to me why my choice is lesser based on the merits of both, I try not take it personally. Because this is technically a design forum, there will be "real" designers (I mean people who work in the industry or went through design school) who will comment on and critique designs, just like there will be hobbyists and enthusiasts who will do the same. This in no way suggests that we should only have a select few speak and silence the rest. Discussion is good. But if someone is using legitimate artistic concerns to reason with you on why something that you like is "bad," try not jump all over them. They took the time to try and help you expand your personal knowledge on the subject for your benefit, not theirs. Do you have to agree with them? No! Just remember that while opinions and preferences vary, there are people who do have better taste than others. Opinions are like ***holes... ...everyone has them. But don't let having an opinion turn you into an ***hole. Regardless of what side of the fence you fall on, keep it respectful. I think that just about covers it... Carry on.
  2. 3 likes
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    That's because the old logos lasted far longer than they should have, as two of the worst logos in the league. Even with all their flaws, the new ones deserve to stand far longer. The Carolina one yes I can agree had started to look very dated, and I'm not sure that the changes made last year will or have done anything to add longevity to it, but it did need looking at. But I'm sorry I dont agree on the Jags logo. It was imo one of the most original and creative logo's in the NFL. It's bold use of negative space being the key reason I loved it so much. In recent years, through gimmicks and people not understanding what it was that made the mark strong to begin with, that was undermined. The logo made no sense as soon as the pearlescent effect was added to the helmet, and I'm glad all the talk and rumour I have seen has that dying the death it so rightly deserves. The original Jags logo could easily have stood another 5 years or more without being touched if the original plain black helmets were reinstated. I dont believe the same is true of this incarnation, infact I doubt it will last 5 years before it's tweaked again! Between it's extraneous golds, it's inconsistencies, it's fiddly little details which wont translate to the majority of uses it'll be required for and it's rediculous proportions! Seriously it looks like it's been enlarged out of pro, at around 140% width to 100% height, which results in it looking more like a female house cat than a wild cat of any description I think the Jags have taken a serious backward step. Not to mention that no matter how flawed their previous logo was, and it had some, to my eye they have created more problems for themselves with this logo than they ever had with their previous one, which utterly defeats the purpose of updating a logo or rebranding. 9erssteve
  4. 3 likes
    For what it's worth, something like this would've been fine with me.
  5. 2 likes
    I saw this image on the Potomac Nationals Facebook feed via DC Sports Bog: Feel free to flame away!
  6. 2 likes
    With all due respect, it seems that the only difference between your post and the people who you are referring to above is that you merely preempted your own rather staunch opinion with an obvious comment about everyone being entitled to their own opinion. I honestly don't find YOUR stance any different than anyone else's. You seem just as set in your way as every opinion mentioned in this thread.
  7. 2 likes
    No. If anything they need to eliminate one and go back to 4 per league. This isn't the goddamn NHL where over half the league makes the post season.
  8. 2 likes
    So let's measure them. Because no matter how often that first sentence is repeated, it does not become any more true. Measurable way #1: Embroidery applications. How, exactly, are those spot details going to be embroidered onto any garment when reduced to a 3" area? Which line will you be removing/reworking/editing in order to achieve a logo that reproduces well at lower scales? The same holds true for the outer ear details and the tongue detail off to the side of the teeth. With the thicker/bolder lines on the former mark, the logo could shrink down and still maintain visual integrity. This is not the case on the new mark. Since it is functionally inferior, this makes the new mark inferior on the whole. Measurable way #2: With the new level of cartoonish detail - the illustrative style - when applying the new mark to playing surfaces, the fine detail work will be lost since blades of grass/synth turf are variable. When that fine detail is lost in the application of the logo, it changes the mark, and thus, makes it inconsistent. Inconsistent logos are inferior logos. These are but a few of the measurable, quantifiable ways the new mark is inferior. To Billy's point, the fact that a pro football team is implementing these logos doesn't automatically exonerate them from technical errors that will prove difficult for outside agencies/output houses/graphics companies/etc. to handle with consistency. Depending on where Khan went for this design, they may very well have not thought about each and every application of the mark. Or, he may have just really liked this Bugs Bunny style and ramrodded it through. I've dealt with similar phenomena throughout my time in sports logo and general logo design projects. Regardless of the reason, the outcome is the same: A new mark that has problems in a very measurable ways.
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  10. 2 likes
    I totally understand the point that there is a difference between an illustration and a logo. Granted, a logo generally is an illustration, but not all illustrations make good logos. We're talking about things like the "book cover" test, which IMO is an important thing, but maybe not to everyone. I prefer flat simple logos to detailed 3d pictures. Just personal preferance. This new logo certainly isn't bad, but it's not my cup of tea, especially when put up against the now former logo, which IMO looked just perfect on the black helmet. Will wait to see in context though before making full judgement.
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    "Hmm, this trace looks really good, Bob, but something's missing. It needs...SPEED, aggression, passion, ferocity. I trust you'll know how to add those elements in, Bob. We're trusting you with this. Don't let us down." CTRL+T and 30 seconds later "WOW BOB!!! Out of the PARK! Where do I sign?!"
  13. 2 likes
    While I don't necessarily think the term "clip art" applies, it does feel a lot like a piece of stock artwork to me. This is of course by no fault of the designer, but the same style (shadowing, and fine detail) is completely overused on sites like iStockphoto. And to put it frankly it's just not a style that I have ever enjoyed. Here's an example just to give everybody an idea of what I'm saying: There is not necessarily anything wrong with the way the logo has been drawn, in fact I think they've done a pretty good job. But I think this may be the reason some people are so turned off by it. It's for this reason, to me at least, that the new logo gives off a minor league, or high school feel. Not because of poor rendering, or messy line work, but simply because of the style it has been drawn in and the connotations that it has come to have.
  14. 2 likes
    Love all the talking about CJ's version. Step up to the plate folks! He did. His version is better than the old or the new Jag in my opinion.
  15. 2 likes
    CCSLC always has the better product. ALWAYS
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  17. 1 like
    I have family in Toronto. I'm well aware of the city's ethnically diverse makeup. I've visited it plenty. I still think Mongrels is a dumb name. Sorry. However you want to spin it you can't make Mongrels work. While the culturally diverse nature of the city is to be celebrated "mongrel" is only ever used in a negative manner. When it's applied to people it's usually used by xenophobes to describe people of mixed race or ethnicity. Toronto's diversity is part of what makes the city great, but I don't think this particular aspect of the city lends itself to naming a sports team. What else could you use? Toronto Melting Pots? It just doesn't work. Further I don't think Toronto's diverse nature means a name with ties to one ethnic community should not be considered. While Toronto's a better place because of its diverse nature there's no denying that certain groups have contributed to the city's history in significant ways. I don't see how honouring, say, the city's Irish community with a name like Shamrocks could be construed as disrespecting the city's other ethnic communities. I'm sure non-Irish Bostonians still root for the Celtics.
  18. 1 like
    It looks like Nosferatu as a koala bear.
  19. 1 like
    Yet, this game is NOT televised. What gives? Even weirder: Mexico's opener against Jamaica is on ESPN2... I know of the deal Mexico had with ESPN for it's games, but still. It's weird. It's on Bein Sport
  20. 1 like
    The Maloofs are quite clearly the worst owners in the history of sports. Not only have they wasted all their money, screwed over a great market and supportive fanbase, and run a completely dysfunctional low-budget mess of an organization, they've also strung other cities along in their desperate attempts to spite Sacramento while wasting other people's money in the process. Dolan, Sarver, and Sterling look like Mark Cuban, Jerry Buss, and Mickey Arison compared to this piece-of-trash family.
  21. 1 like
    BINGO!!! THIS truly and succinctly illustrates what is wrong with the proportions of the Jaguars' new logo as it exists. The "Altered aspect Ratio" version of the logo that shoresidejake has provided is much more representative of the true size of a jaguar's head. As a result, it looks 100% better. I still have a problem with the level of detail in the new logo, but simply tweaking the proportions as shoresidejake has here improves the logo exponentially.
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    Yes. To both. They're not going to box themselves in. Both are options they were pursuing. Obviously the former's ship seems to have sailed and the latter hasn't completely shaken out (ie: Seattle isn't ready yet and may not be ready for a long time thanks to Sacramento). But there is still Quebec who is ready to go now and possibly Markham.
  24. 1 like
    THAT is a great example of illustration vs. logo design.
  25. 1 like
    It looks SO much better when it's simplified and bolder. Nice tweak.
  26. 1 like
    So many possibilities...
  27. 1 like
    The Isles should've made their set untouchable after their cup wins. They'd be cemented right up there with the original six. Now everyone's on the fence because they've thrown so much crap in.
  28. 1 like
    Brand New has it up, Armin gave it a surprising review: http://www.undercons...acksonville.php some of the comments from readers . . .
  29. 1 like
    So let's measure them. Because no matter how often that first sentence is repeated, it does not become any more true.
  30. 1 like
    It literally looks like they put it in MS Paint and skewed it down vertically to 70 from 100. That's unbelieveable how bad the perspective is.
  31. 1 like
    Looks like the Jags have Big Truck Syndrome haha.
  32. 1 like
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  34. 1 like
    ramble_on: Words of advice from someone who taught himself virtually everything he knows about the field he now works in: learn to take criticism. You'll never get better unless you can take suggestions (harsh, passive aggressive, friendly, vague, helpful, what have you) in stride, and process those suggestions in a way that improves your process and final product. bigmike gave you good advice. Work on how you receive it.
  35. 1 like
    I am not putting myself on a high horse by any means. I am just telling you to put some more effort and time behind it. It is like vic furth was saying, do you think a guitar player that is just learning is gonna go out trying to play Crazy Train in a concert 3 days after he bought his guitar? It is great that you are starting to learn the program, but take some time to clean it up and and play around with it to understand it better. There are plenty of tutorials around here and things like that to help you get started. All I was basically trying to say is don't post something just for the sake of posting it, if you really want some good feedback, take some more time to learn your programs. You also need to be using a photoshop template or illustrator, whichever one it is you are actually using, that would help you tremendously, because it honestly looks like you made it in MS paint in about 5 minutes. I'm trying to help more than anything, go back and read my response without being so defensive. I actually like the helmet, it is the cleanest part of the concept and it looks good, the uniform though needs a lot of work IMO.
  36. 1 like
    I'm okay with the new logo, but its going to date quickly within the next 10 years. You can have it Jags fans, I'll stick to something with staying power
  37. 1 like
    I can't explain why, but I really liked this uniform for the Jaguars.
  38. 1 like
    I didnt know Cheech Marin owned the Jags
  39. 1 like
    That brings up the other problem with the Isles' current set, though: It's not a throwback to the franchise's glory years, it's a throwback to the franchise's "hastily-arranged WHA -block" years.
  40. 1 like
    That's because people almost always reject change and then turn around and "warm up to it" later on. This logo would be praised and applauded if a member on here created it. Once you put the new and old logo side by side, it is an obvious massive upgrade
  41. 1 like
    Amateur hour. Maybe the old logo looked like a cat coughing up a hairball but at least it was a well designed cat coughing up a hairball. This looks like a stock create-a-team logo you'd find on Madden or like something that would come up if you searched "jaguar clip art" on Google. I don't see that AT ALL. The old logo looked like a logo. The new one looks like an illustration you'd find in a colouring book designed to teach kids about animals.
  42. 1 like
    At this point, I'm thinking maybe the Islanders should just be one of those teams that doesn't have an alternate. Their default look is fine on its own, and clearly anything else this team tries ends up hit-or-miss at best. If they feel they absolutely need an alternate, an orange version of their home probably would be the best way to go IMO, although I'm still not sure if it'll turn out very well.
  43. 1 like
  44. 1 like
    They put the chest logo on the wrong side...
  45. 1 like
    I took a stab at that logo once...
  46. 1 like
    Haven't seen it yet. But I did just realize next year's Super Bowl takes place on groundhog's day.
  47. 1 like
    I agree, the pinstripe Pacers' look is far better than I ever gave it credit for. In comparison to the overly simplistic, characterless milquetoast sets they have now, you dang skippy they are. The yellow sidepanels really sey them off (on the primaries, anyway)...but that extra outline on the scripts and the numbers really muddied them up, almost to the point of being illegible especially when set up against those pinstripes. Overall, though, it was a good look—but it still wasn't better than the Flo-Jos.
  48. 1 like
    Legacy's a bit of a misnomer, considering this would be an expansion team that has none.
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