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Posts posted by andrewharrington

  1. 2 hours ago, Gothamite said:


    For just that reason, I don't mind contrast stitching. 


    I mind contrast stitching as a deliberate stylistic element.


    I generally don’t like it as a deliberate stylistic element, either, but I think that’s because of the way people have used it over the past several years.


    It became a popular decorative technique on mass market “technical” athletic clothing, and it looked sillly every time (still does). 




    The roots of it, however, are in workwear, where it was the exact opposite; completely utilitarian and decidedly non-decorative. From an efficiency standpoint, it was clothing designed to be beaten down, and there was no need for it to look good. Everything a factory made was sewn together with the same basic white or gold thread (most denim still holds onto this design element even though it often crosses the line from workwear to fashion). Functionally, making the stitching more visible also allowed people to easily see where repairs were needed.




    I commend the Browns and Nike for tapping into those roots when deciding to do it on their uniforms, but I think it really fell flat because 1. the new uniforms didn’t carry much, if any semblance of a classic, utilitarian vibe, and 2. the sheer volume of seam lines on the Elite 51 jersey gave the technique way too much ego, like a supporting actor trying to steal the show. It would be a much better concrptual fit on their old uniform design, and it would be much more subtle and palatable on the simpler Vapor Untouchable garment. Either way, it’s not necessary, but I do appreciate the thinking behind it. If the construction process makes the unintended presence of contrast stitching unavoidable, then making an attempt to use it in a deliberate way is smart and worth the exercise in my opinion, even if it didn’t work out very well.

  2. 2 hours ago, VancouverFan69 said:


    If I were the owner and wanted to keep the Orca, I would have used the same template as the Orca Bay uniforms but replace the dark blue with royal blue and burgundy with green. There would be no copy-and-paste look with the arched 'VANCOUVER' and weak Agency font. 


    Sorry, I'm not buying the significant amount of time part. There were legal and licensing issues here. 


    Every time you bring up their typography, you refer to it as “weak Agency font.” Can you describe what you mean?

  3. On 2/4/2019 at 5:37 AM, BJ Sands said:

    I never noticed it before, but it looked like there was a little extra yellow thread or fabric after the shoulder horns ended. Really bothered me.jared-goff.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=61

    I’m fine with these as a throwback, but they’re too dated to be a primary. Hopefully these are updated tastefully for 2020. 


    If you look closely at any jersey where different colored panels of fabric butt against each other, you will always see this because they have to pick a thread color to sew the pieces together. Basicallly, it’s a “would you rather have blue thread winding along the entire edge of the gold horn, or would you rather a couple inches of gold thread stick out the end” type of situation. You can’t efficiently change the thread color in the middle of a line of stitching.


    Everyone goes nuts at the mention of contrast stitching, but almost every jersey features contrast stitching somewhere, because most jerseys feature at least a few places where one color meets another. Here’s an example over stripes. If you zoom in, you can see the white stitching:




    Zoom into the player on the right and you can see they have the white stitching on one side, purple on the other, but the white stiching still has to come down and cross the purple “Jaws of Husky Stadium” spike.




    19 hours ago, guest23 said:


    Screen printing requires flat surfaces (e.g. torso or back) and typically does not print all the way to the edge of fabric which would make for a horrible application. Sublimation might be a decent option for shoulder and sleeve decorations.


    That’s only for printing on a garment that’s already constructed. Seam-to-seam printing is done before the fabric is cut, then it’s sewn together and voila; the print goes all the way to the edge. All sleeve stripes (Pittsburgh is definitely an exception, and I’m not sure if there are any others) are screen-printed and then sewn together in this manner.

  4. 12 hours ago, WavePunter said:

    Really great insight.. I like how you've really dissected the issue.. I'm just the opposite though.. the organic, "hand-written" feel almost always looks worse to me.. I prefer something a bit more "professional" looking.. I hate the Twins' squiggly-T throwback script and the Phillies' old semi-italic-P script.. they look like someone tried to make a baseball script without the proper resources.. I certainly understand the appreciation for them, but I just feel like teams at the highest level of their sport should look like they have the highest level of design and manufacturing technology.. 🤷‍♂️


    Edit: adding this-

    LOVE that "Fonzo" script btw!


    I think the goal is to have a balance. For me, you want a script that looks like it could have been hand-cut, but removes the “flaws” that don’t serve any purpose. For example, the Dodgers’ and Braves’ examples up there are both pretty good by that measure. The size of the O in relation to the bowls of the D and G is a little off, and the right side of the G is a little heavy, but the curves and connections aren’t too bad. 


    The Fonzo and Pounders scripts still look like baseball scripts (more than any typable font I’ve ever seen), but they’re full of weight issues from one letter to the next, clumsy connections, and bumpy curves. Those are the kinds of things you can eliminate but still retain the feel of a hand-cut baseball script. Normal script fonts don’t have the right look for baseball because there’s a major difference in writing letters with the stroke of a pen or brush versus cutting then out of an appliqué material, and you get a very stock, soulless look when you use one of those on a jersey (see Texas). Even fonts that bill themselves as “baseball scripts” like Michael Doret’s Metroscript look just slightly off when used on a jersey because they sit too close to the “pen stroke” side of the line.


    Long story short, creating a good typable font that replicates the look and feel of real baseball scripts is exceedingly difficult, and I’m not sure anyone’s nailed it yet. They simply work better when they’re custom-made, whether they’re traditional or modern.

  5. 18 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:


    Maybe sometimes.  But not in this case. 


    A game without one team in white invokes the look of teams that cannot afford multiple sets of uniforms.  That's why it is unprofessional-looking, and highly cheesy.


    Or it invokes the look of two clubs whose identities are deeply tied to the colors they’re wearing. Or two clubs who understand that colored garments are easier to clean and look better (excuse me, more professional 🙂for longer. Or any number of reasons that don’t rely on irrelevant shaming due to the perceived status of the club on an arbitrary socioeconomic ladder.


    There’s tradition in the color v. white format in American sports to make it moot in those leagues, so I understand wanting to see that remain. In soccer, however, there’s never been a big push for color v. white, and I’d much rather see, for example, Chelsea in blue and Brazil in yellow whenever possible, so long as their opponent is in a sufficiently contrasting color.

  6. On 2/2/2019 at 8:10 AM, GFB said:



    It’s not common to see a team brand designed with this type of approach. Take away the helmet, pennant, and other sports paraphernalia, and this could be a store, a fashion label, a restaurant/bar, an agency, etc. They might not be the first team to approach branding like this, but they might be the first to go all in on it, and I think there is a lot of success here. The uniforms are the most underwhelming piece compared to the rest of the work. I’m admittedly sad to see the iconic blue-white-red jersey design go away, but the brand extensions and the helmet are, in my opinion, the pieces that are going to live on and challenge the status quo of team branding into the future. The helmet, in particular, is really interesting in the way it gives you such a unique look from different angles (wings from the side, M from the front), while the logo itself straddles a nice line between monogram and bird. I hope they eventually get the perfect threads to complement the rest, but I’ve gotta hand it to the people who worked on this one; you’ve got the building blocks of something special here.

  7. 2 hours ago, Flames1fan said:

    Your not use to it, more other sports on that side of world does it. Its not bad at all tbh.


    Getting used to it doesn’t make it appealing. I’m used to ads on soccer jerseys, and the economics of it are very simple, but I definitely don’t like them.


    1 hour ago, Flames1fan said:

    Have you thought of it in this way, say if NHL has sponsor on a jersey. You could see jersey and ticket price go down. Which would be big help for some people. 


    Sure, but that’s not what happens. The prices stay the same or go up, based on the actual data.


    Conversely, when a company sponsors admission for MoMA on one night a week, everyone gets in for free, and I still don’t have to see a corporate logo on the side of MoMA. I support that, even though it’s crowded as F.

  8. 4 hours ago, skip88 said:

    They are allowed to do that when Nike has the uniform rights for the league? 


    Some teams use other jerseys, but why? (except for the shiny pants part, i get that one)


    Very few large brands own their manufacturing, outside of small scale or quick-turnaround type processes. They are essentially design agencies who work with contractors to manufacture the things they design.


    Think of it like this: Nike is the designer, and they present the Packers a uniform built on their proprietary garment designs. The Packers aren’t willing to sacrifice shiny pants for matte ones, and they prefer the old mesh/dazzle/rib construction to the new stretch-woven style, so Nike makes a concession and redesigns their Packers uniform to the old specs and has Ripon manufacture those pieces. Nike is still “creating” the Packers’ uniforms, they’re just using a different factory to manufacture them because that’s what the team wants. It’s not like the Packers are going behind Nike’s back and having their own uniforms made.

  9. 55 minutes ago, Gothamite said:


    [citation needed]


    I found this, but it’s from 2017 (using 2016 data) and it’s only online sales, for what that’s worth. Milwaukee was bottom five by this measure at this time, but it does reinforce the plainly obvious point that it’s not the team identity that drives sales for small market teams; it’s team success. I’d bet this same graph using last year’s data would show Milwaukee much higher after having a great season.





  10. 25 minutes ago, Digby said:

    See, this is the kind of insidery stuff I was hoping my snark would unearth! Thanks!


    i am surprised, though, that the uniform is designed wholly separately from the event identity. I figured it was a joint thing between the league and the licensee, especially given the way the league pushes the whole weekend as a whole big branded thing nowadays. We often hear on these boards that Nike doesn’t do anything a team doesn’t want them to do; in this case I’m surprised there isn’t a league czar bridging the stakeholders.


    I mean, the league would have input on everything, and there would likely be some, if not all the same people signing off on both the uniform and the event identity (just at different times), but it’s up to the league to get the two connected if they’re having different entities designing the two parts, and the early returns show that it’s not a huge priority to have them connected. I mean, even the difference in approach from the game jerseys to the rookie/sophomore uniforms is quite stark. It’s not the way I would do it, but it’s the way they do it, and they seem to like doing it that way. 🙂

  11. 3 hours ago, Digby said:

    Huh, so the court design team and the jersey design team should probably communicate a little more.


    The court is probably designed by the league (or an agency hired by the league). Typically, there’s no communication at all between the those who design the event identity and those who design the uniforms (unless the uniform licensee is designing the event identity, which has happened). Those two projects are also on different enough timelines that it would be difficult for one to affect the other and create a unified look across both.

  12. 7 hours ago, DC in Da House w/o a Doubt said:

    When I was like 6, it was the mid-90's when MJ was owning the NBA and it seemed like everyone was a Bulls fan.  MJ and the Bulls were everywhere.  Living in the DC area I also would hear about the Bullets.  I thought they were the same team with Bulls being short for Bullets and that the hands in the Bullets logo were bull horns.

    Washington Bullets (1988 - 1997)


    Before the advent of national media coverage and high resolution digital photography, I always thought they were wrenches.

  13. 11 hours ago, demondg1 said:


    Not gonna lie, I kind of want them to resucue the NHL from the brutal Adidas collars.  But Nike might just replace them with Flywire and toilet lid collars.


    Have you seen a Nike hockey jersey? 🙂 It definitely has the potential to look great if you color it right, but can you imagine every NHL teams’ designs being translated to this build?




    I mean, I appreciate it because it’s a clean design, interestingly different, and pushes the jersey build radically forward, but the potential for disaster is immense, and I don’t think many of you would like the result. We’ve already seen the evidence that if you leave it up to the teams to decide how to best translate their design to a new build, the results aren’t always successful.

  14. 2 hours ago, cheo25 said:


    I'm sorry, but I'm not a fan. There is almost no color from afar when white and gray/silver are paired together in whatever combo/order you want to pair it. I don't care if the helmet is silver and the pants are silver, I don't like it with a white jersey. Yes, you have to have a white jersey. No, you do not have to pair the white jersey with silver/gray pants just because it's symmetrical. I prefer the Lions' blue pants with the white jerseys because there is at least more of color. I can tolerate their road look because it's been a traditional look that I associate with the Lions. But it doesn't mean I like it.  


    I think the Patriots' current road uniform is bad because of the side panels, but I like the blue pants a whole lot better than when silver pants were paired with white jerseys in the previous uniform set. 


    And this is why teams should be allowed a second helmet. You could have a dark helmet for your road set that could be the same color as the pants. Then you get symmetry and you get some color.


    No color? There’s blue all over the place. This photo also conveniently crops out the socks, which is where you put the color with light colored pants.


    If you go with blue pants, then what do you do with the socks? Blue isn’t ideal (especially if the helmet is not blue). Grey looks odd. White works, but then it leaves the helmet as the sole silver element and tilts the balance off kilter. Dark pants against silver helmet with white jersey/socks is also challenging for me in terms of hierarchy; the pants just demand too much focus in that situation. The best option for silver helmeted teams is silver pants and colored socks, home and road.

  15. On 1/20/2019 at 12:18 PM, WavePunter said:

    I've kinda illustrated my point here, albeit crudely.. but it's not difficult to see how following the sleeve seam and running into the cuff could work pretty well..



    I don’t love the little curve into the armpit/cuff area, but that’s a pretty minute nitpick. I think it’s a nice look. My biggest concern would be how crowded the front looks with two full digits, especially on a team like the Colts, whose numbers are wider.


    4 hours ago, mbannon92 said:

    @andrewharrington is something like this what you're envisioning? Essentially what @WavePunter did in the LSU mockup above, but tapered at the bottom. I agree that this would be the most ideal solution for the UCLA stripe.




    Thats definitely on the right track, but I think I’d try to angle the stripes a little more in an effort to free up as much room as possible for the numbers. I’ll try to get a sketch together this week.

  16. 2 hours ago, oldschoolvikings said:

    So if all that's true, how is it the UCLA is currently pulling off what appears to be stripes that end in the arm pit and a on-sleeve TV number? IMO the Bruins current version of those stripes is by far the best looking one this century, and it's not even close. The Colts' and Jets' awkward cut-off versions have always looked embarrassingly half-assed. 







    Seriously?  This is a question?


    Honestly, if someone were to tell me they preferred the second picture to the first, part of me would be questioning if I was just being lied to.  It's incomprehensible to me.


    They’re constructed similarly. UCLA’s stripes are a little thinner, and because the inner edge of the stripe panel runs straight into the edge of the jersey’s side insert, you’re able to extend the stripe panel below the yoke seam. The stripe there is actually part of the side insert rather than part of the yoke panel. It’s essentially this with a side insert:




    Aesthetically, I still think it looks clunky where it starts to bunch and distort under the arm, and blocking it off farther down is still blocking it off. If I was going to argue it, I’d say that while UCLA’s jersey is more in tune with the spirit of the original design, the Colts’ jersey is a cleaner, more purposeful design because it effectively separates the design elements while maximizing efficiency and function in the build and fit. I think the solutions I’m trying to describe would be the best of both; clean design that also evokes the sprit of classic shoulder loops. I guess what I’m getting at is if I have to truncate the stripes by force, I’d choose to either do it as elegantly as possible (my suggestion) or just clean it up all the way (Colts). UCLA looks fine, but the in-between approach to solving the problem isn’t optimum to me.

  17. 9 hours ago, Old School Fool said:

    I don't mind the VICIS one but it looks too big on some players and the facemask options look weird.


    I personally think the Schutt Air XP Pro is the best one by far. It maintains the traditional helmet look while keeping it modern and safe.


    They definitely look big, but I’m getting used to it, and if that’s what it takes to change the way corporations think about and address impact protection, then that’s how it needs to be (though personally, I’d love to see the NFL more focused on the spectacular athleticism rather than the bone-jarring hits, becoming more of a 7-on-7 style of play but with 11 players and rugby headgear).


    Vicis’ side attachment bars do have an odd look to them, but again, it’s no different than when the Revolution and Speed(flex) first started showing up. Weird at first, but now the VSR4s look old to me :-). Other than the top two models, though, Vicis’ facemasks have always come across very simple and attractive to me, like modern versions of the classic styles.


    Vicis Facemasks

  18. 11 hours ago, JELKK said:

    I never thought they would use that logo outside of promotional material. I would still prefer a entirely seperate court design for the hickory color scheme.


    I don’t understand how they go as far as they do but don’t use the actual floor design. Mind-boggling.




    5 hours ago, Old School Fool said:


    I actually think the logo would be better at center court than the P logo which is not a good logo to have at center court and should be in a circle or something for it to really work.




    I definitely preferred the circle. It felt traditional and high school/collegiate in the right way; perfect for Indiana. It was also one of the few that not only bucked the trend of center court graphics growing to absurd sizes, but I think it was one of the only ones that actually kept to the regulation size of the center circle, which is exceedingly rare. R.I.P.




  19. Yeah. I mean, you could do a cuff stripe or just move the numbers up the shoulders as they do now, but I’m digging the idea of gold being limited to a small accent in only the sleeve and sock stripes and the rest being just red and white.