BlueSky

And the Saints open the season on MNF at Minnesota. That should be interesting. Adrian has a good sense of humor too. "An orange peanut? For me?"

The very essence of this thread:

Same with the other half of a very prolific passing combination. I thought Niners/Raiders/Seahawks was the entirety of Jerry Rice's career arc until the episode of A Football Life I watched yesterday: Edit: Duh...obviously I missed the previous page of this thread. Oh well...I'll leave this for the next page-misser.

I'll see your Dawson and raise you a Unitas. Yep...the Steelers of yore cut them both. Ouch.

New Orleans store owner busted for selling fake Saints jerseys.

Most are missing the point if you're looking for refreshes that then failed. I didn't miss the point, I just don't think there are that many that fit the definition. I thought ValuJet did a version of this without the so-called "critter" (cartoon plane) after the Everglades crash but I couldn't find an example. For those unfamiliar with what happened to them, ValuJet was acquired by AirTran which has since been bought by Southwest.

I lived in the Bay Area when they tried to introduce those helmets. The fan reaction wasn't pretty.

Good find. Made me think of Aikman at Oklahoma: Live and learn. I had no idea. Here's one that's bothered me all season. Dallas Clark just doesn't look right in a Bucs uni.

Your points are valid but the hard truth is that the average person doesn't care. If the look is reasonably close - to them, not to uni geeks - and it's a fraction of the cost, what do you think they'll do? Besides, have you seen those jerseys Wal-Mart sells? They're licensed but some look worse than the knockoffs. My background is the airline industry and a semi-similar thing is people always howling for more legroom and better service but when it's time to book the ticket, guess what they go for? Yeah...the lowest fare.

Interesting comment from nfl.com. === Comments about NFL Sideline Reebok New Orleans Saints Customized Authentic Alternate Jersey (48-56): A number on back of the jersey has bubbles in it. Since this is a custom order I cannot return it for a refund. I will never buy anything custom from NFL Shop again. I have seen better quality knockoff jerseys at the Flea Market for $50. === Just sayin'...

I'm not a Seahawks fan and seldom even see them play but Hasselbeck as a Titan is still kinda weird...

Nobody on the Saints' old font? Here's a better pic.

Sorry but these are the best pics I could scrounge up. What's the tall, narrow NOB font the '80s/'90s Saints used called? Pretty good view here on the '94 throwbacks: Don't the letters look thicker on the black jersey? Or is it just that the spacing is different?

Frenchy Fuqua of Immaculate Reception collision fame with his original team: The Eagles' #21 with his low one-bar mask should be wearing a sign that says "Please forearm me in the face".

Assuming they wouldn't sell them at a loss businesses NEVER sell things at a loss to either (a) get rid of them quick or (b ) generate publicity/goodwill and thus repeat business A valid point but a reach in this debate. Do you really think it costs over $149 to produce an NFL authentic?

Assuming they wouldn't sell them at a loss, maybe we should all be "freaking out" about the price of authentics since this indicates just how huge the league's markup really is. At least $100 profit on a $250 product? Must be nice.

I usually hate when people post memes, usually because they are idiotic but this one made me laugh. Well done. See that guy in the poster? That's a knockoff suit, made in China.

What you're talking about is actually just fine. You forget that there are a few 'key' components missing. The NFL Equipment Shield, the Reebok logo on the sleeves and the NFL Equipment Jock Tag. The only way this would be illegal is if they were made with trademarked logos AND sold. Some people with the proper skills can actually make their own jerseys, which are thousands times better than the counterfeiters and isn't illegal because they're not being sold to anyone. You can actually buy team embroidered patches online and at stores that can be used in making the jerseys. I've used Equipment patches and jock tags from pulled apart jerseys to put on the ones I've made. But wouldn't it violate the spirit if not the letter of the law? I think that a team could argue that even if you're not ripping off any TMd logos or proprietary fonts, you are still intending to deceive a would-be purchaser by making them think that it is a Colts jersey (especially if you put Manning 18 on the back.) I don't know what the laws are about that, but I know that people have been busted for selling shirts with college slogans on them that used the school colors because they were clearly designed to look like something that came from the school itself. That being said, I think it'd be extremely unlikely that anyone would ever get busted for selling white jerseys with blue sleeve stripes and an 18, unless it had the NFL logo as well. This is one reason why you see teams putting their wordmarks under their collars, and logo patches on the front if there aren't any on the sleeves (Jets for example.) I was looking at this from the buyer's perspective, purchasing the jersey I described for personal use.

Here's a question...what about the classic, more generic looks? The Colts for example. You can buy a jersey with the UCLA-style shoulder stripe in Colts' colors from almost any uni supplier in the country. You can buy a blue jersey with a double-shoulder stripe in white, put 18 for the number and Manning on the back. The only thing missing is...nothing, because the Colts don't even use a wordmark below the collar. And the designer and Reebok and the NFL are left out in the financial cold just as they would be if you bought a China fake, right? What crime is being committed there? In that case, is the team's design just not protected?

No, you are stealing by knowingly purchasing stolen merchandise. And counterfeit jerseys are stolen in that they steal the identity from the teams and manufacturers. It is like buying a bootleg copy of Photoshop for $20 (albeit one which doesn't have all the features and crashes your system periodically). I mean, you wouldn't spend $1,000 to buy the software legitimately, so it isn't like Adobe is losing money, right? The NFL has money taken away from it because it has the right to X amount of dollars for every person wearing an NFL jersey. If you don't want to give them that money, don't wear the jersey. Disagree. Not stealing anything. Want to say the makers and sellers are stealing, I'll agree. I paid my money for an item. Like I said, I am not buying the knock-off instead of the licensed as I would not buy the licensed at their price if I couldn't find a good knock-off I wanted. I made a dead-on comparison which you completely ignored. If you bought a bootleg copy of Photoshop for $20, would it be stealing? Of course, you wouldn't have paid $1,000 for a legit copy, so you could argue you weren't stealing money from Adobe as you wouldn't have given it to them to begin with. Installing pirated software on your computer is a crime and so is knowingly purchasing a counterfeit jersey. No. We've pretty much established that it's not illegal to buy them. If you think it is, my challenge stands: show us one U.S. law or statute that says it. Nobody's done it yet. I suspect the lack of laws to this effect is because no proscecutor wants to take on proving "knowingly" beyond a reasonable doubt. In most cases that would range from difficult to impossible. I'm not defending this, as I've said, I'm conflicted on the whole mess. But it's annoying to read post after post saying "YOU'RE BREAKING THE LAW!!" when that's not the case. And why are you wasting your time with analogies? Those who see nothing wrong with it will never get it and will never agree with you. Ever see War Games? At the end the wayward computer concludes, "Interesting game. The only way to win is not to play." Same goes here with endless arguments like this one. Don't tell me that computer is smarter than we are.

How many pics of bad jerseys do we need? Can't we all just agree that some, maybe even most, counterfeits aren't very good and move on to the issue itself?

nope, it's not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work Yet I know of one major airline who considered going after a guy who made models of the proposed U.S. SST, the Boeing 2707, which was canceled and never flew, because he made them up in that airline's 1960s colors and sold them on eBay. How's that not a derivative work? This isn't the airline I'm talking about but it is the product in Pan Am's colors: Might want to revisit this bit of info from a shop owner in my town who "got jerseys" for other guys... http://www.justice.gov/usao/mn/press/apr022.pdf Hope that works out well for you I don't make any money off selling the jerseys, my friends pay what I pay. I just do the ordering. The case you referenced is irrelevant to me, I don't make a nickel off my friends, and I do not operate any sort of store. I am not doing anything illegal. Knowingly purchasing counterfeit merchandise is illegal; selling counterfeit merchandise is illegal. I asked this previously and have read most of this thread and don't recall anyone ever coming up with a link to an actual U.S. law or statute that states this. If buying it is illegal, there's a law somewhere that says so. The reason this just doesn't ring true is, how can there be such open buying and selling of obviously counterfeit goods on the streets of cities like New York? NYPD and the Feds don't seem as upset about that as you guys are about China jerseys. Before anyone throws me in with the Johnny-come-lately troll - and it amazes me that you guys let this guy toss a match in your gasoline - I've said before that I'm conflicted on the issue and see good points on both sides. Buying counterfeits seems wrong but so does making a killing on "authentic" jerseys by a $9 billion league whose on-field uniforms (which have been documented in this thread and elsewhere) show they couldn't care less about uniform integrity. If you're laughing at the China jersey guy in the stands, you better be laughing at Jermichael Finley too. His jersey looks like it came off the clearance rack at Big Lots (or from China maybe?).

Here's a serious question. I used to frequent an aviation-themed shop in the DFW area that made "original" artwork by filling a shallow shadowbox-style frame with stuff like pics, playing cards, bag tags, and silverware from whatever airline. Is that not copyright infringement?

This thread:

Do you honestly think that everyone who owns a piece of counterfeit merchandise ends up in jail? If the biggest crime someone commits in his life is owning a piece of counterfeit merchandise, I would say his parents did a pretty great job of raising him. Counterfeit jerseys are a gateway drug...next stops armed robbery, assault and battery, and then finally murder I'd wager that most people don't care about theoretical infractions of property law. Yeah it's technically against the law like jaywalking or not transferring your old CDs to MP3 format, but really...big deal. Everyone who gets all hot and bothered about this should direct their energy to helping the sick or poor instead of defending the Yankees or whomever. If I had PS skills I'd illustrate the unchallengeable truth of this by doing some famous serial killer decked out in a really bad counterfeit.