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Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. I just hoped that the team would never bring back a black sweater. All black Sharks sweaters were ruined by the reverse sweep. However, I still like the pattern on the stripes and the lack of orange. I’ll wait until the full set comes out to pass judgement, if it’s more than a fashion jersey.
  2. Now that’s my kind of Islanders concept! Good work.
  3. Or the Padres with their outdated font with equally uninspired uniforms. At least Cleveland has a timeless font and non-white outlines.
  4. Didnt the league have everything digitized in the early-1990s? It can’t be that hard to trace the font from examples on auction websites/the Warriors’ personal archives (I think they have some).
  5. My angle was to engage with Louis Sockalexis’ tribe, the Penobscots. From a concepts thread I made: (Shameless) Link: Turn that apocryphal story, used to justify the old identity, into something productive.
  6. I don't. The lighthouse from the Fisherman set was a far better alternate logo. I too support the Islanders wearing navy/orange, to differentiate themselves from both the Oilers and Rangers. My only real complaint is that they should have used single-outlined instead of double-outlined numbers.
  7. I apologize for breaking thread rules. I got a little peeved. Anyway, here’s a fun idea for a different “C” logo: the fancy block “C” variants that the Negro League Cleveland Buckeyes used. The AL club used a similar logo from 1921-36 (and again in 1941). While I like the Block C, the Fancy Block C is a fantastic alternative.
  8. Thanks! I'm weaning myself off of Liebe's guides for A's-style Old English letters, as they're often messy. They're a good base, but they need expanding upon. As for the question of how I decide the eventual appearance of each team, I find myself looking to two things: 1. How the team looks now, as well as their successful periods in history (e.g., Minnesota Giants and Washington Sens/Nats). 2. What the team in the current location looks like, and how the history of the location and local owners may have shaped the look (e.g., Atlanta and San Diego Athletics). 3. What the team looked like when the move happened, and the initial reaction to said move. Most of the A's relocations I've done involved the Kansas City period's experimentation after Johnson's generic script set. Had the move happened with the Swingin' A's pullovers (albeit in their steep decline), a more radical alteration may be possible. Chicago would involve the eventual sale of the team to Reinsdorf, while Coangelo may have bought the Phoenix equivalent. Such moves will prove to markedly change the A's aesthetics by the 1990s. Throwbacks will happen, but we'll see when we get there (after some time away to deal with a few other teams). Anyway, it's time to put on your red shoes and dance the blues! KANSAS CITY BLUES, PART II A - Royally Blued When one thinks about Kansas City's musical history, one often turns to Jazz before the Blues. However, Kansas City has its own style of Blues music (which helped to found jump blues) that bred several of the genres' best performers (e.g., Pete Johnson, Jay McShann, and Big Joe Turner). Here are some examples of the style: Big Joe Turner - Shake, Rattle, & Roll Pete Johnson - Rocket Boogie Jay McShann - Hootie Street Blues It may not be as famous as the Blues from St. Louis, but it's still an influential school of composition that bled over into Jazz, R&B, and early Rock 'N Roll.1 It's an important part of the city's cultural influence. For further reading, here is the Wikipedia article on the style, as well as a link to the Kansas City Blues Society and an article from Experience Kansas City. Unrelated to this musical tradition, the American Association team in Kansas City adopted the Blues name. The Kansas City Blues were a Yankees affiliate, developing a few of the team's best players of the 1940s and '50s (e.g., Mickey Mantle for 40 games and Phil Rizzuto). Bleephead Arnold Johnson owned both Yankee Stadium and the Blues' stadium (Municipal Stadium), forcing the Blues to move to Denver once the A's relocated. While Johnson insisted on maintaining the Athletics name, let's assume that he decided to be way less subtle about his intentions for running the team, and renamed them the Blues. I reasoned that the name would have stuck around during Johnson's tenure, with Finley maintaining/experimenting with it (think early attempts at double blue, perhaps inspired by the AFL's Oilers' use of powder blue, alongside several universities and the White Sox's 1966 road uniform). Kauffman, seeing the absolute mess the franchise was in by the time of his purchase in the late-1960s, would commission a complete redesign to rejuvenate the club. New ownership would avoid falling back on the visual history of the Blues, as it was fairly conservative and Yankee-like: So, let's assume that much like the Royals, Kauffman turned to Hallmark to handle the new brand. Shannon Manning's designs (along with some other designers' influence) would win, with a guitar pick primary logo, an italicized cap logo, and cursive scripts. All of these elements would subtly incorporate music notes, similar to the "hidden letter" technique of the period (Expos, Canucks, Brewers, etc.). Much like the Royals, the brand would remain largely unchanged with the passage of time, only incorporating minor tweaks and maybe a navy-heavy phase (akin to the Royals' BFBS era). The team uses a double blue color scheme, with a dark royal (294 C, like the Dodgers) and a well-saturated light blue (299 C). The guitar pick primary logo features a baseball with the "KC" logo, the sock stripes, team script, and a music note. The cap logo (a modified version of the Royals' design) is the secondary, while an imitation of a record label is the tertiary. It features the "KC" logo, a music note, a trumpet (based on this reference), a baseball (in the place of the spindle opening), and references to the team's former and current names (the only bit of the A's left in the identity). Clarendon Condensed remains for the wordmarks. EDIT: I have updated the guitar pick logo to incorporate the updated sock stripes, while also moving the "Blues" script to the bottom (and turning it into a Clarendon Condensed wordmark, a la the 1969-78 Royals primary). The tertiary has been simplified, per @vtgco's suggestion. On the uniforms, I've shrunken the white stripes while providing better spacing, as suggested by @the admiral. Also, I flipped the color balance on the royal alternate to favor white with powder outlines (thanks, vtgco). Here are the original images: Logo Sheet, Home and Road, Alternates 1 and 2, and the primary dugout jacket. The home and road set further the multi-blue angle, with powder cap bills, lettering (with royal outlines), and sock bottoms. The sock tops feature the 6-string stripe, a bit of a 1967 Pittsburgh Penguins cue. MLB Block with Serifs is the number font, while Rawlings Block appears for the NOBs. Sleeves feature the primary and a truncated version of the sock stripes, while the road uniform uses a powder blue base (to homage them wearing powder road uniforms for most of their existence). The alternates play with the color scheme a bit. The powder jersey has the tertiary patch and a matching cap (not unlike what the Royals did for a while), while the royal outfit has the "KC" logo on the chest and a powder with white outlines color balance. The second set of alternates features both an alt cap pairing for the home uniform and a Monarchs throwback. Since the AA Blues' visual history was so tied to the Yankees, I reasoned that a Monarchs throwback would be better-received by fans. This is my attempt to recreate the 1924 home uniform of the team, from when they won the Colored World Series for the first time. It was the Monarchs uniform with the most blue on it (save for that season's all-navy road uniform), so it worked with the AL Club's identity. The primary dugout jacket has contrast-colored sleeves (with white shoulder inserts), while the throwback outfit uses the "Monarchs" script on the front. These Blues not only pay tribute to the history of Kansas City baseball, but they also illustrate how the former A's/future Royals' identities could have adopted a more local focus. Having another team named "Blues" does leave a question as to what the St. Louis hockey team would look like. I'd presume that they'd have adopted another local name, such as Crusaders (for the city's namesake, Louis IX) or Pioneers ("Gateway to the West"). C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, it's time for a coronation. 1Edward Komara, Encyclopedia Of The Blues, vol. 2, 2 vols. (New York, NY: Psychology Press, 2006), http://archive.org/details/EncyclopediaOfTheBlues.
  9. 1. I still wish the North Stars adopted that name upon moving to Dallas, as the one bit of the Seals left after the de-merger. 2. I like it, but it’s maybe not best to have to fight with the Stars, Sharks, and the NHL for the trademarks.
  10. Thanks! I implemented the updated “Old English C,” and it really improved the look! I’ve updated the original, and I’ve got a comparison here: Yeah, I can see where you’re coming from with that. I wanted to create an A’s/Royals hybrid with more elements from the team’s pre-relocation history (brighter blue shades, scripts, and that format of “KC” logo). I couldn’t really see the Athletics adopting too many hallmarks of the Monarchs, especially when the A’s had a successful history of their own to fall back on for their identity. Don’t worry, you’ll get a nice touch of Monarchs for both alternate takes! Thanks, I had a feeling you’d like the “I can’t believe it’s not Neutraface” road uniform! I’m definitely going to bring in a gold cap for a future update of the SD Athletics. The Blues will be up later today!
  11. Yeah, I hate the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (No Todd Rundgren? AYFKM?) and I don’t think it’s a good name. I think you can build a good identity off of the crappy name, but the “Minnesota Wild situation” is not one to emulate. I don’t think Cleveland BC is a good idea at all, especially because it doesn’t kill the old name as thoroughly as it should. Spiders, Guardians, Forestmen, or even Blues (provided they do something different from both the St. Louis Blues and the Blue Jays) are all better choices.
  12. Part of me is wondering if the whole “Rock ‘N Roll” theme of the All-Star Game was an attempt to experiment with a new direction/name for their identity, which may or may not involve ditching the name. The Dolans would be smart to assume that people will call for the name to go next. Cleveland Rockers (what I’d assume they’d go with) isn’t too bad, but I’d rather have Spiders or Guardians (after those cool statues that are within a few minutes’ walk of the stadium).
  13. Yeah, but when combined with the block C, it looks so bland and uninspired. I’d call it the worst road uniform in the majors. Cleveland doesn’t have the historical clout to pull it off. Besides, it doesn’t fit with their historical color balance (navy and red co-dominance, with a bit more red than the Red Sox): A cleaned-up version of the cursive “Cleveland” script (like the 1948 home script), or even a red with navy outline block “Cleveland” would go a long way to improving the look.
  14. The only big takeaway here is that the road uniform is even more devoid of personality. At the very least, a red bill on the cap and this script would spice it up: A bit of character goes a long way.
  15. Thanks! I've already done the Browns in several variations. I've also got an Expos concept from my previous thread, which I'll repost here when the time comes (chronological). I'll do a few further variants on them (e.g., one with the "elbM," one with something from the rejected name list, etc.) Thanks. This one (in this post) should be the last of the A's for a while. Before getting into the project, I had no idea about how thoroughly that asshat Charlie O. Finley pimped out the A's to literally every viable market that didn't have a team. I'm legitimately sick of doing A's concepts, as it gets hard to make this damn team look different for each location. Luckily, the 1970s/80s will only have three relocation destinations for them (New Orleans, Chicago, and Phoenix). After that, it's just San Jose and Portland (that last one based on hella loose rumors from our Portland MLB thread). Thanks! The primary logo was a joy to create. I did consider angled scripts, but I prefer the straight across. It looks more like a surfboard/surf shop graphic that way. Still, angled scripts look pretty good here. Yeah, that's not happening. I'm sorry, but unless there's verifiable evidence of a team attempting to move to a location, I won't put it in the series. It's a historical exercise that tries to remain grounded. Thanks! It's goofy, but I love a good dollop of goofy. Thank you! I'm contemplating how to handle the Expos' potential relocations, and I've decided to follow Stadium Page's listings of Portland, Norfolk, and Northern Virginia. I'll probably combine the two Virginia locales under the state name and go with something state-related. In the "modern age of branding," I doubt the Expos name would really work anywhere else. Ha! Thanks. I did think about light blue as a more prominent accent, but I don't like adding additional outlines that would muddle up a look/blur with the royal blue or background color. My early version of the A's had powder blue as the blue shade, but I rejected it for looking too washed-out. Thanks! Anyway, it's on to the least-beloved defunct team, the Kansas City Athletics! KANSAS CITY ATHLETICS, PT. I - Kauffman Coughs up a Modernized Classic When analyzing why the A's failed to gain traction in Kansas City and are the least well-remembered relocated team, there are two easy targets to blame. They are: Asshat Owner #1 - Arnold "Yankee Fetishist" Johnson As stated previously in the thread, the Athletics left Philadelphia as the result of family squabbles and financial problems within the Mack family, leaving them in the position for Arnold Johnson (owner of Yankee Stadium and Blues Stadium - home of the Yankee affiliate Kansas City Blues) to buy the team with the assistance of the Yankees' lobbying (also helped by squabbles within the various Philadelphia-based syndicates vying to buy the A's).1 While he sold his Yankee Stadium property, Johnson found other ways to benefit New York for his own gain. His ownership period of 1955-60 saw the team turn into an unofficial Yankees minor-league team, as the A's performing 16 trades with New York (including the infamous Roger Maris exchange).2 There were also rumors about him trying to move the team to Los Angeles, but that petered out around the time he died in 1960. Johnson was one of baseball greatest villains, crippling a team for the "greater good" of the Yankees. Hearing about these shenanigans/obvious collusion makes it all too apparent why baseball faced popularity problems outside of New York (the 1950s were anything but a golden age for the sport). Arnold Johnson/Yankee owners Del Webb and Dan Topping's actions make the Stanton trade look like child's play. After Johnson: Asshat Owner #2: Charlie "O Great this Pompous Chode" Finley (Source: a movie that sort of misses the point of the original book) While Johnson may put the Jeter group to shame, Charlie O. Finley makes guys like Stan Kroenke and Austin Precourt look tame by comparison. If this series has demonstrated anything, it's that Finley had very little confidence in the Kansas City market. He straight-up said this: While it was stated under duress (fighting with the AFL's Chiefs and Kansas City over his lease at Municipal Stadium), Charlie O. clearly had no intention on ever staying in the market.3 While he set the stage for successes in Oakland (rebuilding the minors - something Connie Mack never did, upgrading the identity by adopting the green/yellow color scheme, and doing silly promotions), he also sowed the seeds of instability under his watch (managerial shake-ups, exacting his abrasive personality on everybody around him, being cheap, etc.). He left after the Truman Sports Complex received approval, getting what he wanted all this time, for better or worse. However, what if a certain owner came in to stop the bleeding? Meet Ewing Kauffman, Kansas City-based pharmaceuticals magnate whose wife Muriel wanted him to find a hobby.4 Let's assume that his wife inquired about buying a team earlier, throwing a dump truck full of money at Charlie O. to f--k off. What if he and his people reshaped the team's visual (and competitive) identity? The Kauffman ownership would undo much of what Charlie O. did to the team's identity. Kelly would leave the identity in favor of royal blue (288 C), with yellow-gold remaining as an accent (to prevent the Midwest Dodgers look). Much like the Royals, the team would experiment with powder blue road uniforms, cursive scripts (modernizing the Johnson-era look - Old English + cursive - without the stigma of his crapulence), and asymmetrical stripes (a 1980s/90s development, reinstated during the '00s - with a placket variant), all while maintaining Mack-style traits (the white elephant, Old English insignias, and a home uniform with the "A" crest) and not veering far from their core look. The primary logo is a "royal" crest, featuring two baseballs, an Old English interlocking "KC," and the slightly-updated white elephant from my Louisville/Seattle concepts. The insignias are the secondary and tertiary logos. The wordmarks include both cursive and Clarendon Condensed marks. EDIT: I updated the Old English C, thanks to @coco1997's suggestion. Here are the original images: logo sheet, home and road, alternates one and two, and the dugout jacket. EDIT #2: I updated the Old English "KC" and the elephant in the primary logo. Here is a comparison, and here are the second set of images: Logo Sheet, Home and Road uniforms, Alternates set one and two (with throwback remaining the same), and the primary dugout jacket. The home and road set features asymmetrical stripes on the sleeves, trousers, and placket. I assumed that it would be a 1980s creation, as a means of modernizing a pullover/sansabelt-era look. The primary is on the sleeve, while the tri-stripe (from the '20s-'30s Philadelphia teams) is on the socks. The home set has the "A" insignia, while the powder blue-tinted road uniform displays an Old English/cursive "Kansas City" script. Wilson Varisty numbers pair well with Rawlings Block NOB's. The alternates include a powder blue top with the "Athletics" script. It's a little homage to the first KC A's team (the only honor Johnson was worthy of), paired with the 1970s "glory years" powder blue. There's no yellow-gold jersey, as I'm really sick of featuring them thought that management wouldn't want to indulge in a Charlie O.'s B R A N D of Fort Knox Gold. The "KC" cap has a gold bill, pairing well with the blue jersey. The second set of alternates include the "KC" cap on the home uniform and a 1942 Kansas City Monarchs throwback. The jackets are pretty simple, highlighting the sock striping pattern on the trim of each uniform. The Kansas City Athletics were not beyond redemption and could have turned their identity around to produce a fantastic look. C+C is appreciated, as always! For the first alternate take, put on your red shoes and dance the... 1Robert D. Warrington, “Departure Without Dignity: The Athletics Leave Philadelphia | Society for American Baseball Research,” Society for American Baseball Research, accessed June 25, 2018, https://sabr.org/research/departure-without-dignity-athletics-leave-philadelphia. 2David L. Fleitz, “Baseball Almanac - The Corner of the Dugout : The Yankees and the A’s,” Baseball Almanac, accessed September 7, 2018, http://www.baseball-almanac.com/corner/c042001b.shtml; Jeff Zimmerman, “Valuing Trades Between the Kansas City A’s and New York Yankees,” Royals Review, July 12, 2010, https://www.royalsreview.com/2010/7/12/1565414/valuing-trades-between-the-kansas. 3John E. Peterson, The Kansas City Athletics: A Baseball History, 1954–1967 (Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland, 2012), 179. 4Max Rieper, “Fifty Years Ago Today, Ewing Kauffman Became the First Owner in Royals History,” Royals Review, January 11, 2018, https://www.royalsreview.com/2018/1/11/16878996/fifty-years-ago-today-ewing-kauffman-became-the-first-owner-in-royals-history.
  16. Thanks! I don't think you'll be disappointed with the direction I've taken. Thanks, and thanks for the consult on the San Diego A's! Thank you. I like the kelly green Dodgers, and I wish they'd throw back to it during Spring Training (St. Patrick's Day). Thanks! I tried to drop the tail line, but the logo looked a little imbalanced. It also gives them a little separation from the White Sox (who'll find their way to Seattle in this series). Thank you! I'm glad I was able to make it more palatable. Given how Arnold Johnson ran the A's, that wouldn't be an out-of-place suggestion. I can see that sentiment, but I like green and white more as a Seattle-ified look. I mocked it up, but I like the script style a little more. The cursive/Old English fits more with Safeco Field's neo-retro aesthetic. At the very least, the A's stadium situation would be a lot better! ? Speaking of the San Diego Athletics, here they are! SAN DIEGO ATHLETICS - Surfin' Stomper At this point in the series, it should come as no surprise that good ol' Charlie O. was looking at nearly every viable market to move the A's. San Diego was on this list, with the PCL Padres' owner (C. Arnold Smith) planning to expand Westgate Park to 40,000 - 48,000 seats in 1961 (like with Sick's Stadium, good luck with that).1 This didn't really get beyond the speculation stage, but it does present an intriguing development. What if the expansion of the stadium went through, with the team moving to the Murph and Petco Park later in life? The first big change is that the team never adopts green, but sticks with the royal blue of the late-1920s/early-1930s Philadelphia A's (286 C - according to Colorwerx). I rationalized it with Smith insisting that Finley limit his "branding" in the team's appearance. Yellow still appears in the identity, as it fits with the whole "beach/surfer" look. Yellow (well, Athletic Gold) is co-dominant with royal, a unique look in the majors. Powder appears in the logos, as well as a lighter yellow. The team would adopt a bit of a surfer theme in the 1990s, which carried over to their move into Petco Park. The primary logo features my Swingin' Stomper (modified from the Milwaukee A's modification of the Leigh Valley Iron Pigs's mascot) logo on a surfboard, riding the waves. It's my way of doing an A's version of the Swingin' Friar, albeit more tied to the surfing theme. The sun is behind him, and the wordmark (Badger Light w/ outline) is above him. It's my take on the Padres' Swingin' Friar, albeit in a surfer context. The secondaries are both team and city insignias, while the tertiary is the elephant with a small wave. The scripts use a modified version of Seren Script by Type Faith Fonts, which I liked as a modern, flowing script style that conveyed the "surfer" aesthetic. The uniforms feature the cursive scripts at the forefront, with Red Sox/Brooklyn Dodgers-style trim. Having yellow on the stripes would distract from its dominant presence on the lettering, sock stripes (following tincture, as yellow doesn't touch white), and cap bills. White cleats remain, as they fit with the bright colors. The number font is the block with serifs variant I've used on pretty much every San Diego Padres concept I've done. Also like my previous Padres concepts, the road uniform uses the sand/khaki color to help the colors stand out. The primary logo is on the sleeves. The alternates are pretty simple, with the A's insignia on the chest and the "SD" cap for the blue alternate. The jacket features the "Athletics" script, with the insignias on each sleeve and the primary on the back. The A's identity would transition well to San Diego, allowing for a bright look that is in touch with both their history and their new setting. It's certainly better than the Padres' current bland offerings. C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, we finally touch upon the black sheep of the defunct teams. 1John E. Peterson, The Kansas City Athletics: A Baseball History, 1954–1967 (Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland, 2012), 148.
  17. Is it just me, or do all of the Angels’ FA decisions/International signings end with the mishandling of their players? It sucks especially in this case, as Ohtani is such a fantastic player as both a pitcher and DH.
  18. Hey, the Dead Wings didn’t ruin the Red Wings’ traditional look. The 1990s-‘00s Blackhawks didn’t trash their iconic set. No amount of terrible teams hurt the Rangers’ uniforms. The current Devils wouldn’t have ruined Brodeur’s uniforms (post-Lou management did).
  19. That makes sense. Still, the Oilers’ classic set didn’t really have the “bleeding” issue present on the current orange set: The orange separates well from the blue background. White outlines on the orange has the potential to “bleed” together.
  20. While I generally believe in it, I do have some notable exceptions: Of course, the light color isn’t the background in these ones.
  21. ...or this? Seriously, a Fisherman third would be perfect. It capitalizes on the 1990s nostalgia wave, is different from the main look, and has become an ironic favorite for many. It should have been a third originally, so it's best to make it a third now.
  22. Tell that to all of the Ducks fans who had to listen to Kings fans chant "This is our house!" during an elimination game (which happened to be Teemu Selanne's final game, BTW). Many Anaheim fans still don't want their teams associated with Los Angeles.
  23. That's an insanely low bar to clear. It may be their best alternate, but it's not particularly outstanding. I'd have rather had the Fisherman as a full-time alternate (which is what it should have been in the 1990s, BTW - it might have survived longer that way, too).
  24. Just wait, and the answers will make their way towards you without you even having to ask the questions. Again, READ, wait, and silently take in what info you have with the understanding that everybody is as much in the dark as you. Spamming with “soon” or “any day now” helps nobody.