SFGiants58

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Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. Ah, a bunch of fruitcakes who don't get what it means to be a tough man who are out of touch with my outdated worldview! Going into your posting history provides a bit of a revelation: Ah, a guy who supported non-white groups, women's rights, and similar causes was a propagandist who clearly had depression? That's kind of a low blow to strike, and speaks to your worldview of "family values," "manliness," and "not changing for the sake of a few special little snowflakes." Just be transparent about it, OK? You see my username, and you probably had to resist the urge to call me a term I don't feel comfortable using (rhymes with "maggot"). Mods, if I went to far, please edit this post.
  2. The helmet is perfect, which excuses the design a tad. Matte or that weird flake effect takes away from the design’s beautiful simplicity (pissed-off jaguar emerging from the shadows). However, teal numbers would be a marked improvement. Khan is to black as Spanos is to navy. They both go against fan wishes to push “their” color on the team. While the Spanoses are sorta embracing powder, I don’t see Khan shying away from black-primary.
  3. You say that like it’s a bad thing. It is, in fact, a fantastic approach. Not a lot of people have a problem with multiple “cartoony” logos in baseball, so why should hockey be any different? Johnny could also work as a Senators or Robo-Pen style portrait of a burly lumberjack.
  4. It’s a beautiful piece of 1970s traah. I love it and the write-up!
  5. I've got a soft spot for it because it looks like the cover of one of my favorite Judas Priest albums (right behind Killing Machine/Hell Bent for Leather) : If the Canucks somehow inspired Doug Johnson's amazing design, then they get a mild thumbs up in my book. I do wonder what a 1970s minimalist Johnny Canuck would look like in those colors.
  6. Thanks! It was an easy translation. I'm shrinking the tail in an upcoming update. I attended Marquette for grad school for the past few years, so I'm familiar with the story. I would have voted Hilltoppers as well, if only to find out what the mascot would have been. Thanks! I can see where you're coming from with the "cursive M," but I thought that it looked downright awful compared to the "B" and the "A:" While it does sort of read as an "M" on its own, it doesn't carry the same heft as the cursive B or A. Also, the "block M" has the history of the American Association Brewers and the 1957 Braves behind it, so I felt like I had to use it (albeit with a slight modernization). Thanks, guys! Anyway, here's the next flavor! MILWAUKEE BREWERS, PT. II - Riverwest (several miles away) Stein For the next entry, let's suppose that the Br(aves)ewers went a bit further in changing up their identity. I originally wanted to use Blatz's brown/gold color scheme (a @NicDB suggestion), but I figured that it wouldn't have really fit with the AA Brewers or the Boston Braves' aesthetic. I assumed that the team would look to the different breweries in the area (County Stadium/Miller Park are in the Miller Valley, after all) for inspiration, building upon the different aspects of their graphic design. I know that the Lakefront Brewery image is far more modern than the others, but it exhibits a similar aesthetic: Shades of blue, red, and gold tie all of them together. So, the Milwaukee NL club would shake up their color balance, swapping red and yellow-gold for each other while further emphasizing navy. They would also change up the scripts to use Miller-like underlines (replacing the tomahawk), while featuring a Blatz (a sponsor of the Milwaukee Braves) -like extension on the "B" and the thick gold outlines/script use of the Schlitz rhombus. Pabst's influence would appear in the presence of red accents. This would all produce a classy identity for the now-Brewers, as they'd establish themselves as Milwaukee's team with a Milwaukee-an color scheme. The roundel is now a beer bottle cap, inspired by this graphic (and similar ones). It would be a modernization of an older design, like the Buffalo Bisons' bottle cap. Owgust remains (albeit recolored with an Athletic Gold "M" - the leaf would be impossible to render at that size), while the Project 32 "M-leaf" returns. This would be the result of a 1980s/90s modernization, trying to evade Michigan comparisons. TribeType remains as the block font for the roundel/lettermark. Edit (11/10/19): I have adjusted the Owgust design, per @Gothamite's suggestions. Also, per @MJD7's C+C, I promoted the athletic gold-billed cap to primary, removed the navy-only cap, and added an athletic gold front-paneled alternate cap for the yellow and Sunday alternates. Here are the originals: Logo sheet, home and road uniforms, home and road alternates, Sunday/Borchert Field alternates, main dugout jacket, and Borchert Field dugout jacket. The home and road uniforms are a bit of a "best of" for my different Brewers' concepts. I modified the Project 32 scripts to feature underlines instead of tails (still with the American Association-style left terminal), while also using extended strokes on the capital letters (the Blatz touch). The underlines feature a red streak, to both emulate the local breweries' use of the color and to add a little detail to the design, like the Braves' yellow tomahawk stitches. The number font is MLB Block with Serifs, featuring a "Packers-style notch on the "5." I kept the Braves' striping pattern, with the slight modification of a one-color Northwestern Stripe. The placket added some heft to the design. The alternates play a bit more with the color scheme. The Athletic Gold jersey features a gold-billed cap, while the Light Navy (282 C, like my Sens/Nats concept) top features the "M" logo. In order to add a dash of red back into the design (because it's not on the insignia), I used y/r/y trim. It's a bit of an old St. Louis Blues trick, but I think it works here (not having white and using navy helps). The primary is on the sleeve. Edit (11/10/19): The gold-billed cap is now a gold-paneled cap, with the all-navy cap removed. The next set of alts pairs the alternate cap with the home uniform, while also bringing back the "Borchert Field" set (based off of their 1948 American Association home uniforms). The primary jacket features the "Brewers" script, while also using shoulder inserts to emulate the streak. The primary logo is on the back. The Borchert Field jacket now features the "M" insignia, akin to the AA Brewers' vintage jackets (am I the only one who thinks that it's weird that I'm pairing the acronym "AA" with the Brewers so often?). While I normally don't like combining all three primary colors, doing so here allowed me to give a unique spin on the Brewers/former Braves. It pays tribute to both the club's history and city's baseball/aesthetic traditions. C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, we check in with Charlie O. on his quest to escape Kansas City!
  7. The New York Cosmos are poison to any league they join, and I wouldn't mind if the team stayed dead forever. NYCFC is a perfectly fine team name, given that they play in the city proper and their crest/colors are so fantastic. Once again, the Cosmos are POISONOUS. Do you really want to honor a team that played a big part in both of the NASL's failures? Atlanta United is A-OK, as is Inter Miami (it really works there, more than the bland "Strikers"). Real Salt Lake is iffy, but I don't mind it too much. That "history" of the NASL is one of a league over-estimating its abilities and crippling itself. Some identities survived, eventually finding their way to MLS, but many died and should stay dead.
  8. I get that sentiment, and let’s consider the other New York teams and their identities: Yankees: the NY(’s) and the hat-bat in the roundel. New York is the US’ most iconic city, so it makes sense to emphasize both the city and its place in the US (or the North, if we’re going historical). Mets: the city IS their identity. It’s in their primary, the name, and the colors. Heck, the baseball Giants would probably do something similar if they survived (the Giant skyscrapers of NYC). Rangers: the team had the Lady Liberty logo, and uses “US” colors to good effect. Islanders: royal/orange, acknowledging that the city is near/on an island, and the “NY-stick.” I’m a lighthouse fan, but there’s a way to work an “NY” into the design tastefully. Football Giants: the giant “ny” on the helmet does the trick. I’d prefer it if the “n” was a capital letter, but oh well. Knicks: royal/orange and “New York” on all uniforms. The Nets, Devils, and former Dodgers are outliers, due to not using the New York identifier (at the moment for the Nets - NY Nets would be a good change for them). The Jets should do a little something for their namesake, but the oval-NY would be the best primary mark. Again, modernize what the team looked like at their best without the past 20 years of dark-n-fade, poor adaptations to modern jersey templates, and butt fumbles.
  9. Thanks! I'd like to think that it compares well with the other Braves' road scripts and caps: Anyway, it's time to do the first flavor of the brewfest! MILWAUKEE BREWERS, PT. II - Easy Teasy This is one of the more obvious renaming concepts I've done. Let's assume that the renaming happened due to one of these reasons: 1. Fred Miller buys the team, wants to "local-ize" the identity by blending it with the American Association Brewers. 2. Assume the same as above, but sub in a later owner who wanted to remold the team in the image of the AA Brewers. 2. The team gets proactive with the "anti-Native American imagery without tribal consent" push in sports (during the 1980s/'90s - around the time the Atlanta Braves axed the Screaming Savage), and embraces the name of a historic club from the area. This is much the same thing that Marquette University did.1 So, the team would take their classic look and simply Brewer-ize it. Heck, the AA Brewers did just that in their final years in Milwaukee: So, my goal was to modernize this look while adding a few AA touches of my own. The roundel is off of my previous Brewers concept in this thread, as is the "Block M" and the Owgust logo. The most notable change comes from the color scheme, which is navy/red co-dominant with a few Athletic Gold accents. EDIT (1/25/2019): I've replaced the "M" in the "Milwaukee" script to match the latest update to the Braves concept, while also shortening the tail, per @Carolingian Steamroller's suggestion. The original is here. EDIT (11/8/2019): I've updated Owgust, per @Gothamite's suggestions. Here are the previous updates: Logo Sheet, Home and Road, and the dugout jacket. The home and road set doesn't have too much deviation from the Braves. The scripts gain tails that mimic the AA Brewers' classic script, while Owgust ousts the Screaming Savage (or would have back in the day). I used a powder blue-ish hue on the road uniform, if only to differentiate it a bit from the main set. The original image is here. The alternates feature both a regular navy jersey and a fauxback set. This guy merges the 1938-style cap (not exact), the 1936 home jersey's striping, and the "block M." It also features the 1914 Braves' sock stripes, for a small homage to the team's Boston heritage. The jacket is a bit of a logo swap of Braves jackets. The original image is here. While it's not all that different from what the Braves wear now, it's a demonstration of how the team could have changed things up with minimal effort. Next up, let's try a different flavor, one with a more local bent. 1Author's note: Marquette totally could have done what the Dubs did and just dump all of the Native American-themed logos. It's not like they were trotting out Willie F***ing Wampum at halftime (he'd since been succeeded by a blue muppet). Had they just shifted to an arrow/spear logo (not the Dubs' Thunder), it would've been fine. I still like Golden Eagles, while Gold is silly and Golden Avalanche doesn't pass the "will a 12 year-old laugh at it" test.
  10. But this is intentional. The Cowboys got that way through manufacturer changes and laziness.
  11. I’d argue for a jet plane alternate logo, for some use on the design. Other than that, the “NY oval” is in keeping with modernizing the look the Jets wore at their best (SB III). Who would you rather remember, Joe Namath or Rich Kotite? Let the jet-JETS stay dead.
  12. By your logic, what teams have “good” stripes?
  13. I’d never want the Giants to ressurect it as a primary, but it’d make a good Orange Friday road alternate:
  14. Agreed. A lot of it is about context. When the helmet is the focal point of the design, the other parts can take a back seat/be minimalist. My favorite example of this would be the Rams, whose best uniforms all used simple striping that drew attention towards the helmets. Like you said, Michigan also qualifies. Sometimes, the striping is the signature element. Look at the Packers, Bears, Chiefs, and Ohio State. They build their look around a standard striping pattern (with deviations drawing ire, FU Forrest Gregg). I’m sure daveindc would dismiss is as “tradition” (said pejoratively to get a rise out of some here), but it’s a credible way to build a football identity. The problem with the Jaguars is that they don’t have an overarching element that can justify plain jerseys. I love the helmet, but it’s just not enough. They’re fine uniforms that are utterly replaceable, which is all you can really expect from the Jaguars.
  15. It’s not dumb. The elephant symbol exists because John McGraw called the A’s a “white elephant” in the 1900s/‘10s. Connie Mack then turned it into a symbol of team pride. If the elephant isn’t white, then it misses the point. The current A’s have made the mistake of coloring it green, outside of a few BP caps.
  16. So, all stripes are bad? Is that really your argument?
  17. Thanks! I'm sure it'd be a much closer gap between the Braves and Packers than it is between the Brewers and Packers. Also, thank you for the corrections with the counties/freeways. Being a relatively recent transplant who rarely leaves Milwaukee proper, I'm still learning a lot of the local names. The star suggestion (included in the edited post) really improved the logo's look, as the all-white was a bit distracting. Thanks! Thanks, guys! Also, @CaptainKirkMN, that .gif was from October Sky (which I didn't realize at the time). I've never seen it, but the trailer made it look decent. Thanks! The reason I didn't include a 1957 throwback is that the primary set is just a modernized version of that look. Any throwback would be "too similar" for my tastes. Thanks. Aaron hitting #715 at County Stadium or playing for the Milwaukee team probably would have had even more of an impact than it did in Atlanta. He would have spent his whole career in one city (up to that point), so there may have been more fan connection. It would also mean that he'd have a block M on his Hall of Fame plaque, which he quite frankly should have on his real life plaque (that or the lowercase a). There are many cap redos I'd like to do for the Hall of Fame, such as Nolan Ryan with an Angels insignia, Early Wynn with a plain Wishbone C, and Jimmie Foxx with an A's logo. Thanks! I opted against creme home jerseys, if only because I prefer them as alternates/a Giants-only thing. I did try the BiG with a blue base color, but it didn't pop as much as did with a red base. The red base also has some historical basis, as the "715" cap logo was red with white and royal outlines. Thanks! I've redone the script to make it less jumbled by improving the kerning, further defining the letterforms, and adjusting the left vertical of the "M" and the middle vertical of the "w." Thanks again, @Carolingian Steamroller for work-shopping the update with me! Here is a comparison: I've updated the original post with the new images. Both parts of Part 2 will be up soon!
  18. Penn State football would look better by simply ceasing to exist, but I digress. Back on the Jaguars, I’m still underwhelmed by the overcorrection. It’s better than the old mess, but still misses out on interplay between the different colors in their color scheme. It’s fine. Not amazing or even good, just fine. Perfectly serviceable, which is good because the Jags will wind up wearing different uniforms in five years (hopefully keeping the gorgeous helmet), maybe with more ornamentation. This team is condemned to be trend-chasers.
  19. The Timberwolves kind of had a part in the North Stars moving, so it makes sense that people have eschewed them in favor of the team they drove out through arguments over concessions/adverts. There was also some stink about the arena having to be in St. Paul, but did the Twin Cities really need two arenas?
  20. Thome said it’s what he wanted. I’ll take his word that he didn’t want the vocal anti-Wahoo crowd on his case.
  21. I just want to see the Canucks’ old yellows playing the Sharks in green or light teal Seals-style throwbacks.
  22. I’d hardly say that it’s stupid. It’s the logo of the team most commonly identified with his career, and it removes any ambiguity about Wahoo “maybe” being on his cap. Doing something like a blank cap or a “can’t see the front” plaque could lead people to accuse him of being pro-Wahoo or anti-Cleveland for not acknowledging the team on his plaque. It’s also in Cleveland’s best interests to not have Wahoo in such a prominent place. It eases the phase-out. This also means that (maybe) Kenny Lofton and Omar Visquel will have blank caps or the “Cursive I.”
  23. Thanks! It took a while to get it "just right." I think I'm getting the hang of the "script construction" thing. The elephant doesn't look too bad on a green jersey: Thanks, guys! Indeed I am! They'll be the finale, because their "one and done" status means I can have a bit more fun with them. In their chronological place, I'll mock up the three Brewers prototypes from 1970. Thanks! I'm surprised Louisville didn't come up in expansion/relocation talks more often. I guess that part of is that having a team in Louisville would impact the radio/TV territory rights of the Reds, Cardinals, and both Chicago teams. I think that it might have been a success, but we can never really know. Thanks! While I put the elephant on the green (due to the red body cover on the elephant), it still makes for a fun jersey. I'm not really planning on doing any significant color changes for any A's relocations, especially since they will have all come after the "Swingin' A's" dynasty of the 1970s. The only real shift in colors I'll do is for Kansas City, if only because my scenario has Ewing Kauffman buying the team from Charlie O. Finley in the late-1960s and dropping Finley's trademark green/yellow. Anyway, it's time to join the Brave and the Bold! MILWAUKEE BRAVES, PT. I - Braving the Storm One of the more frustrating relocations in baseball history has to be the Braves vacating Milwaukee in favor of Atlanta. If one wonders why they left, here's the basic plot: 1. Lou Perini sells the team to a Chicago-based conglomerate, led by Bill Bartholomay, that pretty much intended to move the team to a bigger TV/population market. This was pretty much their intention from the start of buying the team. 2. Perini did some small things that were a bit off-putting, such as denying fans the ability to bring their own beer (mostly a BS reason, but a slight contributing factor) and raising ticket prices. 3. Perini and the Bartholomay group overreacted to attendance/profitability declines, which were in part due to trends throughout baseball and in part due to the team's perceived competitive decline (despite having a winning record in all of their Milwaukee seasons). In other words, ...except the Braves didn't really get that in Atlanta. Even with TBS giving them a big sphere of influence, Atlanta's f'ed up urban planning and other factors contributed to poor attendance, leading to their white flight to Cobb County. This information all comes from this excellent article by J. Gordon Hylton of the Marquette University Law School (the newer building on campus, right next to the interchange and behind Sensenbrenner Hall).1 The article and comments point out several way the relocation could have been averted, which include: 1. Perini sold the team to a Milwaukee group, with Bud Selig maybe being a member of an ownership consortium. 2. Perini keeps the now-unprofitable team, but manages to turn things around until the late-60s/early-70s run of contention. 3. Fred Miller doesn't die, and winds up buying the team. 4. The consortium stays in Milwaukee, bolstered by a piece of legislature. In his article, Hylton describes, "In 1965, as a last ditch effort, Wisconsin Senator William Proxmire introduced a bill in the Senate that would have required major league teams to pool all of their radio and television income in a way similar to the then current practice in the National Football League. The bill never got out of committee in the United States Senate, but such a requirement might have reduced the lure of relocating to new territory and perhaps kept the Braves in Milwaukee."2 If any one of these things happened, what would the modern Braves look like? This is pretty much a standard Braves concept (a slight tweak of their 1987 update), but with a few notable alterations. The primary logo is now the roundel, featuring the Wisconsin state outline, the "Block M," and a star pointing to Milwaukee's location. I figured that the team, like the Brewers, would use the Miller Valley location/I-43 proximity to lure people in throughout the state. People from places like Madison, Door County, Green Bay, and Shawano County would all be part of the team's net. A new "Block M' is the secondary, derived from the American Association Brewers' old monogram and given angled serifs akin to the Astros' slab-serif font. I figured that unlike the Atlanta Braves' 1987 update (which merged their last Boston/first Milwaukee uniforms with the cursive "A" cap), the Milwaukee Braves would have gone all-in on a logo similar to the 1957-style "Block M," (thanks @Gothamite, for championing the "correct Block M" cause) with a few adjustments to make it a bit more "modern." They did win a World Series in it, after all. The "Braves" script with a contrast-colored tomahawk is the tertiary. I did try to make a "Cursive M" for the team, but it really didn't look all that good from a distance. Unlike the "B" or the "A," it didn't read like an "M." Besides, I didn't want to throw out a link to the American Association Brewers/the '57 Braves that readily. EDIT: I added a gold star on the primary, per @NicDB's suggestion. It gives it a bit of a punch. Original Image is in the link, while the second image is here. The home and road uniforms feature all of my standard Braves trademarks, such as contrast-colored tomahawks and Northwestern Stripes on the socks. The road uniform bears a "Milwaukee" script with an extended tomahawk, inspired by @Ted Cunningham's work. It was a bit of a pain to get it to work, but I think it looks good. At the very least, it's a nice way to eliminate the team from the relocation roundelay. The Wilson Varsity font also receives a Packers-style "5," for that extra Wisconsin touch. EDIT: With the fantastic help of @Carolingian Steamroller, I've tweaked the "Milwaukee" script to feature better kerning and letter definition, while also adjusting the "M" to have a longer left stroke and bending the middle vertical on the "w" for better intra-letter spacing. Thanks, @Carolingian Steamroller! The original image is here. EDIT 2: With the additional help of @Gothamite, I've revised the "Milwaukee" script further to use the "M" from the American Association Brewers' road script. Here is a comparison between all three versions, as well as the second edition of the script. The alternates feature a red and a navy softball top, intended for limited use. Both use color swaps to preserve the contrast-colored tomahawk setup, and feature the primary on the sleeves. EDIT: Image tweaked to match the primary/road script improvements. The original image is in the link, along with the second rendering. The heritage alternates feature a "Cream City" uniform, with the "Block M" on its own. It's my little way of paying homage to the American Association Brewers' 1911-37 identity. The second one is a Milwaukee-ified version of the Braves' "715" set. I wanted to use a lowercase cursive "M" at first (which really didn't work), so I replaced it with (per @NicDB's inspired suggestion, thanks) the Ball-in-Glove. I double-outlined it and matched it to the coloration of the Braves' "lowercase a" insignia. EDIT: I fixed an outlining error on the creme uniform and updated the Milwaukee star to gold. The linked image is the first edition. The dugout jackets feature some notable tweaks from previous Braves concepts, such as the use of the primary as the back logo (a la a motorcycle jacket, and Milwaukee is the home of Harley-Davidson, a brand that is somehow both "the establishment" and "rebellious," an RCR observation). There is also a "715" jacket, which builds upon the period jacket (worn by Phil Niekro). EDIT: Both dugout jackets incorporate the graphics tweaks of the previous images. Here are the originals: Primary Jacket and 715 (715 Second Edition). The Braves wouldn't look all that different from their current counterparts, but there'd be a certain "Milwaukee-ifying" of their identity. Heck, had they stayed, they'd probably have more of an impact on the city's sporting culture than the Brewers. C+C is appreciated, as always! For the alternate take, lets brew up two distinct flavors of rebranding. 1J. Gordon Hylton, “Why Milwaukee Lost the Braves: Perspectives on Law and Culture From a Half-Century Later – Marquette University Law School Faculty Blog,” Academic Blog, Marquette University Law School Faculty Blog (blog), January 1, 2012, https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2012/01/01/why-milwaukee-lost-the-braves-perspectives-on-law-and-culture-from-a-half-century-later/comment-page-1/#comments. 2Ibid.
  24. Sure, it’s feeble, but I’m half-adding it. I also don’t believe in “kill football,” if you thought I did. Also, bringing up my home town’s name has a nice layer of passive-aggressiveness to it. There are are other outlets for physicality, like other sports, hiking/walking, etc.. Also, are you implying that I don’t understand the basic biological/physiological differences between genders? If so, I think I can see you angle.? You can learn that from any sport or academics. Sure, toxic masculinity happens in any sport, and the “bad ones” get media preference. Also, when you try to demean your “opposition” as “23 year old blogger in a cubicle” or “parent’s basement,” you’re just using poor rhetoric. I know I won’t change your mind, and that you won’t change mine or many of the other posters’ minds. Quite frankly, this has gotten boring.