SFGiants58

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Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. I think you've hit into a winner here! Well done.
  2. That's much better! I also like the new purple and the sans-serif font on the "Tequilla Sunrise" alternate (anything is better than the bold variations of Kabel). However, I still have a few issues. First off, I'd credit Matt Malinoski for his work in updating the wordmarks. Second, I'd try to modify the primary logo and the H-star to get rid of any traces of the slab-serif font. The redesign would definitely feel more "complete" that way. Keep it up!
  3. I'm pretty sure the only reason the Orioles started wearing it was to declare themselves as "Maryland's team" and ward off their Maryland fans jumping ship to the Nationals. Heck, the year the flag patch debuted (2009), was the same year that the team brought back the "Baltimore" script on their road grays. Peter Angelos was always the most vocal opponent to the return of baseball to Washington, D.C. After realizing he couldn't keep a team away, the Orioles' marketing strategy shifted towards a Maryland/Baltimore-oriented approach to their identity.
  4. I love what you've done with your tweaks for the Tigers (outlines do help it out), and I'm a little blown away by your Astros concept. The purple (especially the blue-heavy shade you chose) and the side panels all look fantastic. I would suggest that you use the fourth option for your primary logo as a way to subtly incorporate the Tequila Sunrise pattern into the logo. A little goes a long way. My one gripe with the concept, which is a gripe I have with the Astros' current set, is the font. Slab-serif fonts don't jive well with the "space age" aesthetic. I'd suggest going for something along the lines of the original shooting star set (as updated by Matt Malinoski): ,,,or this overlooked concept made by @the admiral: A space age-styled font would really put this concept over the top. Also, if you're having trouble blending shades, I have a tool for you: Meyerweb's color blender! I've used it on concepts before, and I really like it. I hope this helps, and keep up the good work!
  5. So, Sharks with lighter teal, maybe? Even if the template doesn't change, a lighter teal will definitely be welcome. Maybe the team is slowly taking their brand in a renewed direction? I doubt it, but it's a good sign for the brand identity and the organizational culture.
  6. I get why people liked the SiR. It's part of an age when the aesthetic conventions of sports design leaned towards depicting equipment over nicknames, and worked with simple curves and color distributions. What I don't get is why people like the skate. The thing barely looks like a skate, is a messy blob from any considerable distance, and bears a strong resemblance to a 15 year-old's attempt to recreate the cover of Judas Priest's 1982 album Screaming for Vengeance (an album that came out after the redesign, but I think my point stands). Yeah, it's associated with two Stanley Cup runs, but it's so ugly. At least the bland SiR wasn't ugly.
  7. I'd rather the team wear the boring as all bleep "Stick-in-Rink" and the Orca than the Millionaires' V. Sure, it's associated with a pre-"NHL only" Stanley Cup, but it sacrifices anything related to the "Canucks" identity in favor of paying tribute to a team that hasn't existed for nearly a century. At least the Sens' barberpole was kept alive by junior teams, while the Millionaires got condemned to the dustbin of history. Part of me wishes that the team used the Skatin' Johnny from day one (with abstract and aggressive versions for the 1970's and 1990's redesigns, respectively), or that Orca Bay got their wish and went through with the name change. At least then, we'd have a better answer to their identity crisis.
  8. I'd love to see what our Rite of Spring threads would have looked like in the 1980's and 1990's. Who would SabresRule be pissed about? What funny things would Admiral say? Along what lines would we argue about fanbases and player movement?
  9. Thanks for the C+C guys! If you want to see the genesis of the Carolina Pilots, here you go! My first idea for the team was to name them the Carolina Aviators. I ran through several editions, including ones with a black/light blue/yellow color scheme, brown/light blue/Carolina Blue colorways, and a cursive script font (Fenway Park JF, a font that I've used with modifications in the past). The plane that would later become the Seattle Pilots' plane made its debut here, before some reworking/simplification. The whole process involves a lot of tinkering over time, playing with little ideas as they come to me and tweaking them to a presentable point. Now, the main attraction, and one of the most thoroughly-researched concepts I've made! CLEVELAND INDIANS, PT. I - Spokane-ifying the identity It's not surprising that the Cleveland baseball club has been having troubles with their branding for some time. While the organization has tried to stress the "block C" (which has been with the team since their days as the Cleveland Blues) over Chief "Little Red Sambo" Wahoo (it's racist, get over it), they seem hesitant to rip the band-aid off completely. Part of that would be the brand equity behind Wahoo, and the other part is that the "block C" is so bland. Some people want them to bring back the "caveman C" (an overpraised piece of 1970's kitsch that exhibits traits of "primitive cultures" lettering - which brings up troubling implications while looking terrible), while others want to adopt the "block C with feathers" route. The "block C with feathers" is my preferred course, but I decided to build upon it. One of the best examples of a Native American-themed identity in sports is the Spokane Indians of the Northwest League. They worked with the local Salish tribes to refine their logos, promote Native American causes and culture throughout the stadium, and even wear Salish language jerseys. I wanted to see what it would look like if the Cleveland Indians did the same (something @Lights Out hinted at in his series). While I initially wanted to pay tribute to tribes from Ohio, I decided (with some help from posters like @hawk36 and @Gothamite) that the best route would be to link the team to the "Indian" who played for the team and became their apocryphal namesake, Louis Sockalexis of the Maine Penobscots. The article mentioned above claimed the Penobscots' tribal council opposing Wahoo, so I'm not sure how receptive they would be to the team working with them to "refine" the brand. However, assuming there was cooperation between the Penobscots and the team, this is how I think it would play out. There would also be cultural awareness events at the stadium, financial contributions to the Penobscot Nation and other Native American groups, and other practices. The color scheme is still navy/red. They have worn navy since 1901 (going by the name "Blues" from 1901- and red since 1933, and changing the color scheme wholesale would alienate even more fans than deleting Wahoo. Instead, I got creative and shifted the color scheme to a red-dominant one (the other red-dominant teams in my AL are the Angels and Diamondbacks - you'll see) with powder blue as an accent color (an idea I floated in @Victormrey's excellent thread, along with the Penobscot seal link). That way, they can be separate from the other navy/red teams without sacrificing their color scheme. The red-dominant look also has precedence in their history, with the 1965-69 vest set, the 1994-2001 home uniforms, and the current home uniforms. The new "block C with feathers" uses a more abstract feather (inspired by a @raysox concept), which emerges from the insignia's outline. The secondary logo takes cues from the Penobscot seal, with the double curve motive (based on a plate from this book of Algonkian art) and the sun pattern.1 The logo features the Abenaki (the Penobscot's language family) word for Indians, "Alnōbak" (as sourced from Joseph Laurent's book and J. Dyneley Prince's article) - presented to the best of my interpretation.2 I used the TribeType font for the logo and wordmark text. As for the uniforms, they draw inspiration from several eras. The scripts are modernizations of the ones found on the 1946-49 (the tail) and the 1951-57 (the lettering) home uniforms. The update is similar to what the current home (and former road) script do, without the "uncanny valley" effect of the thick lettering and "perfect" alignment. I used Nike's Beaverton Script font as a base, with some drastic modifications (i.e. the connecting parts of the letters, the twist in the "C" - like Raysox's concept, and the bends in the letter tops) and the addition of tails. I added feathers to the scripts, to tie them in with the cap and sleeve logos. The red caps/undershirts/belts/socks are off of the 1965-69 vest set. The jersey, pants, and sock stripes all incorporate the new light blue color (with white highlighting it on gray and red backgrounds). The asymmetry on the jersey and pants stripes comes from the 1994-2001 set. I kept the block standard numbers/NOB's (without obsolete nameplates) because I like them and fewer teams use block standard in my series. There are ten double-curves on the uniforms, counting the ones in the logo and the one in the center of each sleeve's striping. The motif stands for the ten players on the team (including pitcher and DH) united together, while also not divorcing the double-curve from its cultural context. Per "The primary significance of the double-curve and scroll figures among the Penobscot was a sort of political symbolism. The double curves represented the bonds uniting the different members of the chief's family, the subdivisions of the tribe, or the officers of the council."3 This way, the symbolism doesn't come across as cultural appropriation (I use that term in its proper context, and not as a catch-all phrase - let's let this funny video sum up what I mean). The alternates also follow through with the design choices of the home/road set. The colored top is now red, paired with navy undershirts/belts/socks and a navy cap with a red bill. The navy accessories help to balance out the red jersey and tie the set to the team's long history of navy-crowned/red-billed caps and navy accessories. The second alternate is a script swap of the home uniform, featuring an "Alnōbak" script and the emblem of the Penobscot Nation (sourced from this website).4 While I don't like using flags on sports uniforms, I felt it fit in with the alternate's goal of promoting Penobscot cultural preservation efforts.5 The second set of alternates include a throwback for July 5, in honor of Larry Doby breaking the color barrier in the American League. A new patch graces this recreation of the 1947 home uniform, replacing the crummy proto-Wahoo of the original uniform (Larry Doby wasn't keen on Wahoo, according to apocryphal sources). The other alternate is a "clash kit" of sorts, for wearing against teams with red caps/undershirts/belts/socks. It's also my "lip service" to the navy-centric 1994-2001 road uniforms. While I doubt the Cleveland Indians will follow in Spokane's example, I do think this concept is a reasonable path for the team to follow should they communicate with the Penobscot Nation. They can have an identity that both honors Louis Sockalexis and the Penobscots while keeping connections to their historical branding and separating themselves from the other navy/red teams. Thank you for sticking with this long post, what with all of the links and citations. C+C is greatly appreciated, as always. Up next, a new identity for the Cleveland baseball club and it's "Guardian" spirits! Note: The numbers used for uniform modeling are #14 for Larry Doby, and #18 for my favorite Cleveland Indian (and Giants broadcaster), the legendary Duane Kuiper! Footnotes 1Frank Gouldsmith Speck, The Double-Curve Motive in Northeastern Algonkian Art (Ottawa : Government printing office, 1914), 27. http://archive.org/details/doublecurvemotiv00speciala.; “Tribal Flag,” accessed June 12, 2017, http://www.penobscotculture.com/index.php/tribal-flag., 2Joseph Laurent, New Familiar Abenakis and English Dialogues: The First Ever Published on the Grammatical System (L. Brousseau, 1884), 54.; J. Dyneley Prince, “The Penobscot Language of Maine,” American Anthropologist 12, no. 2 (1910): 189-90. 3Speck, The Double-Curve Motive in Northeastern Algonkian Art, 4-5. http://archive.org/details/doublecurvemotiv00speciala. 4Richard Fitchen, “Who Took More Scalps, Native Americans or European Colonists?,” Richard Fitchen, February 12, 2015, http://www.richardfitchen.com/2015/02/12/who-took-more-scalps-native-americans-or-european-colonists/. 5“Historic Preservation,” accessed June 13, 2017, http://www.penobscotculture.com/index.php/historic-preservation.
  10. Well, every once in a while, Vegeta has to win. Even though you're technically on his side, you often don't want to root for him. Maybe I'm feeling alienated by the post-2015 Warriors, but it doesn't feel nearly as good as the 2015 title did. I'm still happy and all for the victory and the rest of the old cadre of fans, but I still can't overcome the lack of connection. Ah well, it's baseball full-time now. P.S. That .gif is from Team Four Star's Abridged series. Once again, go watch it if you haven't already. It's arguably the best English localization of Dragon Ball Z.
  11. Thanks for the C+C and kind words guys, I really appreciate it! The more I've thought about it, the more I'm leaning towards basing them in Charlotte (despite the amount of money that the city invested in the probably non-expandable stadium for the Charlotte Knights). Since Charlotte is too far inland to really work with the "Pilots" name or the aviation history, I'd still go with the "Carolina" name. What I meant by "centering and scaling" was that the logo without the wordmark was a bit on the wide side, which made it a bit awkward to use alongside other logos in the leagues. With a wordmark, the "bounding box" of the whole logo is a bit more square, which makes it easier to center and scale (which is why roundels and shield shapes are so popular). I hope that answers your question. Anyway, onto the alternate take on a defunct team! CAROLINA/SEATTLE PILOTS, PT. II - Seattle-izing the Pilots Like the previous defunct team (and some future ones), this resurrection will also steer the team in a new direction. Let us presume that by the time the team moved to the Kingdome in the mid-1970's, the success of the aviation-themed Supersonics, presence of the blue/green/silver Seahawks, and/or new ownership that didn't like the naval theme changed up the imagery to reflect aviation and the Cascadian color scheme (the Doug flag). The other explanation would be the team following the early-1990's trend of darkening blues, emphasizing the "trendy" teal and metallic colors, and focus groups negating the naval connection to the name "Pilots." This is also an excuse to post a video about the significance of the word "pilot" as it relates to suburban SUV's and dad jokes. Think of it as an attempt to apply the 1993/94 redesigns of the Mariners and Brewers to their ancestor team. The teal has been lightened to better contrast with navy, and metallic gold is now an accent color. The primary logo uses a combination of the Mariners' 30th anniversary patch and my Sonics concept, as well as a profile of a Boeing-Stearman Model 75 (a WWII-era aircraft). Wings return from the Carolina concept. The fonts are Badger Light and Badger Heavy, which come from a modification of Aachen Bold (1990's/neo-retro combination). The secondary/cap logo uses a propeller in the same way that the Mariners' insignia uses a compass rose. The tertiary logo is a Seattle-ified version of the Carolina team's secondary logo. The home and road uniforms use the template of my Carolina concept, as it worked with the colors. The number font is also the modified Astros' number font, as it fit with the slab-serif lettering. The alternates are similar to the Mariners' home and road alternates, with the navy one getting a teal-centric overhaul and the home set using the tertiary logo as a patch. The teal-billed cap can be paired with the home uniform as an alternate. The home throwback is my best approximation of the Pilots' home uniforms (because they had a lot of little variations - often overlooked in reproductions). There's no "100th anniversary" patch, as I presumed the cash-strapped team would have kept their flannels until at least 1971. I also corrected a mistake made with the Mariners' current retro set by making the base white, not cream (I'm also using the original shades, and not the recreated ones). I've always been bugged that we never got to see the Pilots get the "Cascadian" treatment or paired with an aviation (not naval) theme. Now, my curiosity can be satisfied! C+C is greatly appreciated, as always. Up next, the Cleveland Indians!
  12. Several people on the concepts section think of it as a viable name because it's sorta plural. Here are the examples of it: I don't like the name, and I don't like that people like it. There are better New Orleans-centric names.
  13. RIP Junction Jack, you creepy jackrabbit and symbol of the regrettable "railmen" identity. You aren't really missed.
  14. Yeah, I should have said "blue." This is why you proofread after editing. Thanks for catching it.
  15. This is why I wish more teams had taken up Charlie O.'s initiative of changing color schemes in the 1960's. In an age of color TV's growth and before the large-scale merchandising of sports teams, long standing color schemes could be more flexible. Now, these traditional colors are too entrenched to really do anything with them without fan uproar. I wouldn't want most of the red/red teams changing their color schemes (with the occasional exceptions of the Angels, Rangers, and maybe the Braves). Still, it's fun to experiment and find teams that could break up the hegemony a little bit. Playing around with color distribution (and accent colors - yellow for the Braves, a metallic/yellow-gold for the Angels, and light blue for somebody), uniform templates, and fonts is one such way to "differentiate" without dumping navy/red. It makes for a more visually interesting league, while still remaining traditional.
  16. Hey, it's nice to see this pretty logo again! I like the basic idea behind it, but I think it still needs refinement. Off the top of my head, the leaves in the shield could lose their black lines (maybe go for the Pearson Pennant version of the tri-leaf design) and the outer leaves should be simplified a little (get rid of inner lines). A straight-on view of the tower would not only be better for consistent lines, but it would also help with displaying the logo in miniature applications (i.e. mobile apps, caps, etc.). Part of me would want to ditch the leaves altogether, because it brings them too close to the iconography of their opponents in the Battle for Ontario. I loved the original, and I'm looking forward to seeing how you can improve it.
  17. Totes! While I'm a little lukewarm about a team changing the color scheme they've had for the better part of a century, but black does make sense with the Braves. The tomahawk precedence, the red/black (with occasional gold accents) colorway of two other Atlanta teams, and the team's daliances away from navy (a variety of pre-tomahawk looks,1 royal in the 1970's-'80's,2 and the team's heritage with the "Boston Red Stockings") all lead me to consider the black/red/yellow-gold (for tomahawk accents) color scheme to be an acceptable one.3 As for the other navy/red teams, a few could use a change in color distribution to distinguish them. The Indians should go all-in on the late-1960's color balance (minus Wahoo and the wishbone C), the Twins can emphasize navy and reduce red to a minor accent, the Red Sox can do their whole "split the difference" thing, and the Angels can do whatever (red/gold with navy halos was one idea). In the NL, the Nationals could add some gold accents (either as drop shadow or the return of the bevels). Now, don't those teams look distinctive despite sharing the same basic color scheme? Olive green/black or brick/black/tan could also work for @the admiral's idea for the "Dallas Chaparrals"/"Fightin' Chaps" brand for the Rangers. Those colors are close to the coloring the the Greater Roadrunner (the "Chaparral" of the name). While I wouldn't change the Rangers' name now, it would have been a good name for the team had the actual Texas Rangers/the NHL's New York Rangers shot them down (and if the Spurs had moved to San Antonio a year earlier and sold their trademarks to the former Washington Senators Mk. II). 1Chris Creamer, “Boston Braves Logos,” Chris Creamer's SportsLogos.Net, accessed June 4, 2017, http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/81/Boston_Braves. 2Ibid, “Atlanta Braves Logos,” Chris Creamer's SportsLogos.Net, accessed June 4, 2017, http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/51/Atlanta_Braves. 3“The Story of the Braves | History,” The Official Site of the Atlanta Braves, accessed June 4, 2017, http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/atl/history/story_of_the_braves.jsp.
  18. Since you're wondering what the "action versions" might look like, here they are! I think it works on both templates (the first being a @jayjackson3 design, while the second is from @DAHOF). ...and now, the debut of the first of two expansion teams! CAROLINA PILOTS, PT. I - First in Flight In finding an expansion team for the American League, I settled upon the Carolinas. It would give the AL East a team in the South (parallel to the Braves), and maybe make travel easier for the Tampa Bay _____rays. I chose the name Pilots for several reasons. The first would be to reference the achievements of the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk, and the second would be to resurrect the name of the departed Seattle team (which is too good to have fallen out of use). I am not the first to think of this name for a Carolina expansion team (or the first to think of this color scheme for them), but I am the first to go all-in on the early aviation aesthetic for the team. The assumption would be that this team would play in either Charlotte or Raleigh, adopting a state name to both avoid alienation and acknowledge Kitty Hawk (about 371 away from Charlotte, and 206 miles away from Raleigh). The color scheme is a modified version of Tuft's beautiful brown/light blue (something I thought about for the Padres, but rejected). I adjusted the light blue to have a bit more separation (and to slightly differentiate it from UNC's blue - remember that this is a Carolina team, not a North Carolina team). Tan enters the color scheme to compliment the brown, mimicking an aviator jacket. The font is a modified version of Marthas (because of its resemblance to vintage aviation imagery), which is aligned upwards to reflect a plane taking off. The tail is from the Twins' road script, with a center contrail added (since I'm not using these tails for the Twins - and I wanted to use them somewhere). The logos are homages to pilots' insignias, with appropriate baseball touches. This is also why the secondary logo uses the word "squadron" instead of "club." The primary uses the wordmark as balance for centering/scaling, and would be absent on the uniforms. As mentioned before, an illustration of the Wright Flyer I graces the secondary logo. The uniforms have a bit of a neo-classical touch to them. They use a neo-retro number font (a modified version of what the Astros use - which should clue you in on my plans for them), the primary on the sleeve, contrast-colored bills, black cleats (brown shoes would be a little clog-ish), and sock stripes that reflect the sleeve striping. The Dallas Stars' NOB font, which is bolder than Block Standard, is the new NOB font. The alternates are basic recolors of the home and road uniforms. The light blue set features both an alternate cap and socks, to make more use out of that fantastic color. The brown shirt features a blue-heavy cap logo and scripts so that the jersey can work with both white and gray pants. The secondary logo graces its sleeve. The other alternates include a pairing of the home uniform with the blue cap and socks and a retro alternate based around the 1950's-'60s Charlotte Hornets of the South Atlantic League. This alternate, featuring Under Armour's Tiffany font, the secondary logo, and the team name, is an attempt to ground this new team into the baseball history of the state (mimicking the look that many of the 1960's Minnesota Twins wore in Charlotte). Also, with that color scheme, how could I pass up a cream alt? While I doubt that the majors would expand into the Carolinas, I still think that this is an excellent direction a team could take should expansion occur. I love the vintage aviation aesthetic, and I think I've presented it in a way that fits with major league-level identities while still being unique. C+C is greatly appreciated, as always (please comment, and don't just "like" this post, thanks). For my alternate take, we take a look at the Seattle namesake of these Pilots. P.S. If you're wondering why I chose #27 for the uniforms, it's in reference to North Carolina-born pitcher/Hall of Famer Jim "Catfish" Hunter.
  19. I maintain the perception that the Original Six shouldn't be called that. A term like "Oldest Surviving Six" or the "Heritage Six" might be more appropriate, given how only the Canadiens and maybe the Leafs were around at the founding of the NHL. Of course, that's being really nitpicky and ignores that the "Original Six" were the only teams in the league for about a quarter of a century before organized expansion began.
  20. This booby takes offense at the thought that a member of its species could be as incompetent as the NHL's bosses. You don't need to feel too bad about that one. I was kind of expecting the aging Sharks to get blasted at some point in those playoffs, but I didn't think it'd happen in the Stanley Cup Finals. It was a "happy to be there" moment, and it wasn't that much of a heart breaker. Losing the Stanley Cup Finals will never hurt as much as the 2014 reverse-sweep. I do feel sorry for the Predators. I've grown to like them, and I want to see what they can do with the other powers in the conference.
  21. The Sabres' best logo came out of that period. This logo in royal/yellow (with some simplified detailing) was the perfect primary crest for the team. Just because they're a Buffalo team doesn't mean they have to have a buffalo in their logo. Pair it with an updated B-sword, and you've got fantastic set.
  22. Well, let's look at the rest of the Giants' rotation and bullpen. The lack of quality players has rendered the team unable to get rid of anybody until Bumgarner comes back. If the team had more quality arms (as Strickland is sadly one of the better pitchers in that pen), I'd have wanted Strickland DFA'd for being a doofus who endangered his teammates for petty reasons. At least when Bumgarner gets into fights, he doesn't try to throw punches and have to be carried away by three players.
  23. I really wish the Hops were a Brewers affiliate, if only for the name connection.
  24. If we want to get into super splitting hairs territory, try discussing the "unmerger" that created the Sharks. The basic idea is that the Gund's Cleveland Barons and the Minnesota North Stars merged in the 1970's, only to "unmerge" when the Gunds sold the North Stars and founded the Sharks. The North Stars' participation in the expansion draft, along with the Gunds selecting many ex-North Stars in the draft, supports this idea. However, I'm not sure how much of the Sharks' fandom believes in the "unmerger" or even cares whether or not they "own" the Seals and Barons' records (given how both teams were mediocre to terrible in their short existence).
  25. Thanks for the C+C guys, I appreciate it! I've done some quality control fixes on the original images, as I'd misaligned the second O in the "Boston" scripts and neglected to recolor a few pieces of the green set. I like 627 C because of how dark it is, giving it the same contrast properties as navy. I used the same shade in one of my favorite concepts, the Timberwolves from NBA: Project 32: I figured I should show off what the alts looked like in opposite color schemes, so here you go!