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Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. You know, I wouldn't mind the Warriors passing the torch to a new team. I'm more than satiated with what they have and I'd be thrilled to see a new team win the title.
  2. Thanks! Well, that's an option. I've been thinking about a few light blue inserts for a Portland Athletics teams, to go along with Forest Green/Athletic Gold. I'm definitely using that color scheme for when the Expos/Marlins' Portland relocation appears in a few posts. I have the feeling that you'll like it. Thanks! I've even mocked up a 1983-91 style set, with cues from the 1982-84 A's home alternate and the Royals' 1983-91 uniforms. It's a bit "Brewers south," but I still like it. Thanks! As of right now, here's what's left: Portland, Virginia Fury re-do (with the horse), Norfolk, and an alternate Washington name Expos (a repost of my Project 32 designs, an attempt at an "abstract" style - as suggested by @NicDB, and the Royaux) Marlins attempts to move to San Antonio, Oklahoma City, and Charlotte San Jose and Portland Athletics A grand finale of two designs for the Pilots updates sprinkled throughout Let's finish off the KC updates! KANSAS CITY MONARCH, M-phasize a better letter After updating the Milwaukee Braves to have a less awkward "M" in their cursive wordmark, I performed the same tweak to the Monarchs (my ideal Kansas City concept)! Logo Sheet Home and Road Alternates The other set of alternates and jackets are the same. Now, here's a compilation of all of the Kansas City squads! Up next, the Louisville, Seattle, Chicago, and Denver A's will get some tweaking. After that, Youppi's Lament will return!
  3. I’d settle for a 1980s design with the full stripes and the white facemask. Wear that outfit against the Bears in all-white (but with navy socks), and you’d have a fantastic pairing.
  4. Thanks! I too like the kelly/yellow for both Oakland and Los Angeles, as well as kelly/white for Seattle. It fits with those places pretty well (compared to Portland and Sacramento). The interlocking LA is a personal favorite design of mine, since it incorporates both the city and team initials while being distinct from the PCL Angels/Dodgers' "LA." Sweet! It's fascinating to see how relocation affected so many of us baseball fans. Heck, it's done that for me. 1. I'm a fan of a relocated team. Had the Giants stayed in New York or gone to Minnesota instead, I doubt I would ever have had that bond with them. 2. Had the A's moved to Louisville, my dad might have grown up a fan. I could have carried a Louisville Athletics fandom with me! 3. The Giants' potential moves to Toronto, Tampa Bay, and maybe San José might have kept me from being a fan. My baseball fandom would be very different had it been for a few relocations happening or not happening. Thanks. The red was definitely a fun experiment and I wouldn't mind revisiting it at some point. However, I still like the kelly/yellow a bit more. Thanks! I doubt it. Anyway, let's hop on over to Kansas City! KANSAS CITY ATHLETICS, REDUX - Housekeeping the Heraldry The Kansas City Athletics (whose story I wrote about here - TL;DR: it had potential, but poor ownership from Arnold "Yankee Toady" Johnson and Charlie O. "Horses--t Town" Finley screwed it up - Ewing Kauffman would probably have salvaged the club in KC) needed some tweaks. I upgraded the heraldry designs to match the Philadelphia redux, while adjusting the interlocking "KC" to be less messy. Logo Sheet Home and Road Alternates #1 Alternates #2 Jackets I've updated the original post to reflect these changes. Stay tuned for additional tweaks!
  5. I never said it was the majority opinion, just that you could "make that argument." I also disagree with you when you argue "exceedingly defined" as being a bad thing, since clarity is a desirable quality. If cultural qualities weren't an issue, a cleaned-up Wahoo with a better perspective and realistic skin tone would be fine (e.g., Blackhawks). Sure, abstract is fine. It's just that the Expos' logo has fundamental flaws and is an example of how not to execute an abstract design. Look at the Ball-in-Golve or these designs: The Stick-in-Rink may be a bad example, but at least it doesn't accidentally produce letters the original designer didn't intend. Heck, the local CFL has done it better: The M-blob, as @Gothamite, @B-Rich, and others have said, simply isn't a good design. It's the Expos, sure, but that doesn't mean you can't re-define the team. The Winnipeg Jets demonstrated that it was possible, as have the Washington Nationals, the Ottawa Senators, the MK II Washington Senators, and the Charlotte Hornets. A historical name shouldn't bind a team to the old imagery. Then again, to each their own. My opinion is not fact, but merely an opinion informed by observations and personal preferences. If you have good reasons to like it, then keep on liking it. It's ultimately aesthetics and personal connections.
  6. What's so hard to understand about my: "The logic used to defend the M-blob also applies to Wahoo. Both designs were outdated and flawed compared to illustrations and insignias from their respective schools of design. You can argue that both are 'iconic' and that the 'good outweighs the bad,' but that doesn't change the poor quality of the designs." argument? Sure, Wahoo has the added element of insensitivity (which is why the team was forced to disposed of it), but one can make the argument that it's aesthetics was also a good reason to drop it. Besides, fanbase embrace is immaterial to the argument I was trying to make.
  7. It's a baseball team logo, so I'd argue that it's applicable. Culturally unacceptable, yes. But I'd also argue that its aesthetic qualities left it in the dust. The linework and detailing is far less appealing and consistent when compared to modern designs. Look at compared to what the Vikings do (since 2013, at least): Note the consistent line weights, clean detailing, and proper perspective. Wahoo has none of those elements. Now look at more modern "cartoon"/graphical designs. They generally adhere to consistent line weights, well-defined detailing, and easily-re-sizable forms. Wahoo doesn't have that, which is why it is aesthetically inferior (like the M-blob). Nice of you to overlook how I disputed the "good outweighs the bad" and "iconic/know what it is" logic behind liking the M-blob. Like it or not, they're comparable and they're both terrible for aesthetic reasons (with Wahoo having an additional stink of MOD EDIT). No amount of "good times" or "iconic status" can outweigh a terrible design, especially when the "good times" weren't all that good. Like it or not, the "success" argument goes further with Wahoo than it ever would for the M-blob. I loathe Wahoo, but the same defenses for the M-blob apply to that outdated cartoon logo. Also, way to put all the blame on Loria when it can spread pretty far and wide (separatists, Olympic Stadium's construction, the Blue Jays claiming Southern Ontario and Ontario's growing population of former Quebecois, and a fairly sizable recession during the 1990s in Canada - one which was worse in Quebec than it was in Ontario, IIRC). I would never be a Loria apologist at all, but he gets too much credit for sabotaging the Expos. If anything, MLB sent him in to finish off the market. It's OK to let the Expos fade away into baseball history, like the St. Louis Browns, the Washington Senators MK I/AL Nationals, or the Seattle Pilots. Nobody can take away the fond memories of the fans or the great careers of their many hall-of-famers (who often went off to have more success on other teams). Just because there's a cultural clout attached to a design doesn't mean we can critique it and point out its numerous flaws. One can be both a formalist and a new historicist.
  8. The articles about how he CREEPS ON TEENAGE GIRLS do that for me. Even if only a small percentage of it is true, it's gross.
  9. Something being iconic or recognizable does not exclude it from being hideous. This is an "iconic" image: ...yet most people look beyond its brand recognition to see how fugly it is. You can cite all of the guys from the late-1940s/early-1950s, Major League, the 1994-2001 squads, 2007 and the recent run of success as the "positives outweighing the negatives" (never mind that Cleveland has had more success with Wahoo than the Expos had with the M-blob). There's no questioning what it is, how bold it is, and how recognizable it is. It has kept Cleveland relevant, even in periods of non-contention. Every praise you can sing of the Expos' logo, you can sing of Wahoo. However, none of that saved it. People saw it as a poorly-designed cartoon logo that should go away. While I'm probably making a false equivalence, I'm just illuminating how the logic used to defend the fugly M-blob can be used on Wahoo. Hey, you can critique that logo without bringing up MOD EDIT issues!
  10. Whatever. Soccer is soccer, no matter the league model. Following the rest of the world’s lead is a good thing for names (not as much for everything else - pro/rel is disgusting and should be avoided). It leads us away from the MLS 1.0 dark times. However, single-entity should go away once the strike inevitably hits and exposes this structure for how it suppresses player salaries.
  11. Really? There's plenty of "design" to them and they can look fantastic (as the Sens have shown). That didn't stop them before: Not really. The Millionaires' look has precedence and they can "Canuck" it up. Per @hockey week: Neither the WHL Canucks nor the Totems have that special "Stanley Cup" touch that the Millionaires and Metropolitans have. Besides, failed expansion rarely merits honoring, especially if said name is a Native American-based one. See @DastardlyRidleylash's post for more information. Totems and Kraken are the two worst options.
  12. The Gobbeldy (I am racially insensitive)ger was a terrible idea.
  13. Yeah, no. They're not cringe-worthy or inappropriate. They're dignified, effective, and fit with what the rest of the world does with Association Football. Sporting Kansas City, the FC/SC teams, and Inter Miami are all acceptable and work well for their teams. Even the "United" names are fine (uniting of ownership groups/fans/other associated individuals). Also, "organic-sounding" is just elitist gobbledy(I am racially insensitive) used by American-style name fans used to demean teams that follow the rest of the world's lead. It's also a fun statement used by "Class of '96" fans to insult supporters of newer teams (that have their crap together from founding). EDIT: I am sorry about that one, I had no idea that it was a racist term. What I meant to say was "nonsense."
  14. Creeping on teenage girls, maybe? Like this, which just reads as pervy.
  15. Thanks! I tried the double-outlined gold jersey, but I really didn't like it. However, I have used the original gold jersey concept to de-intensify the red (per @BellaSpurs and @kroywen's suggestions). Following the lead of my New Orleans A's concept, there are no double outlines. It's definitely cleaner! I still kind of prefer kelly/yellow. With the "Nintendo-ified" Mariners, I still have yet to find an idea that would really work with the concept. Besides, it would probably be its own thread. Thanks! Yeah, the Pirates' red vest comparison is fairly fitting. The red kind of distracts from the green/yellow/white setup, producing a busy mess. I've got a kelly/yellow version right here, which should clean the concept up considerably. I've also returned the "LA" insignia to the road alternate. I like it without the red, as the kelly shade I use (349 C, the same as the early-80s Philadelphia Eagles) is dark enough to contrast with the yellow-gold. Thanks for liking the Philadelphia A's updates! Doing these defunct restorations does make me a little curious about seeing how history would have played out had some of these teams stayed in place (e.g., the A's in Philly or the Giants/Dodgers in the New York Metropolitan Area). Thanks! I've also mocked up a simulation of what would have happened had Charlie O settled the team in Anaheim and opted for the Autry/Disney branding convention/what might have happened had Gene Autry bought the team off of Arnold Johnson. Up next, I get some "housecleaning" out of the way for Kansas City.
  16. Allegations surface? He is kind of a creep, after all.
  17. Again, the team should ask for tribal permission before even thinking about the Totems. I don't think that this is particularly gaudy: ...but your are right about the Metropolitans. This would be a PITA for any color-blind fan. Ottawa has made simplified barberpole designs look decent, so I assume Seattle can do the same. Also, your point about the Canadiens' barberpole is inaccurate. The Millionaires/Metropolitans never wore something that repugnant. The Totems' jersey is OK (but once again, needs tribal permission), but that Canucks jersey is exceptionally bland. If the Canucks want an appropriate third for the rivalry, why not this? They're decent enough, but I wouldn't put them "leagues above" the Millionaires/Mets.
  18. I really like what you’ve done here with the double-layered script, the primary logo, and the cap insignia. It all feels era-appropriate, especially with the limited use of yellow. If you want to incorporate more of it, I’d suggest adding it as a shadowing color (Brewers/Padres), dulling it for double outlines (Astros/Blue Jays), or incorporating it as an obnoxious bit of shading. I agree with @Htown1141 about the colors. If you want to use light blue, go the Memphis Grizzlies route by using a super-pale shade that might as well be bluish gray. My primary recommendation would be to use a display font for the numbers. The Phase 3 Padres, Astros, Brewers, and Blue Jays all used display fonts, to little success. Find something that’s rounded and simple (Astros) or bogged down with shadowing (Brewers/Blue Jays).
  19. Thanks and I'm sure you'll like it! Thanks, it's fab to have you back. You're right, I should apply these shades to one of my Brewers designs. The dark royal would work well for them. Thanks! I'm not keen on using the full keystone for the alternates, but it could work well on a BP design. Thanks! I'd assume that if the A's stayed, it'd be at the expense of the Phillies. I assumed that the Carpenter family would have bought the A's instead of the Phillies during the 1930s in my timeline, leaving the Phillies to move and/or fold due to monetary problems. Unless some ownership group (like one of the ones mentioned in "Departure Without Dignity" who tried to save the A's) stepped in, I see them moving somewhere like Kansas City (maybe Oakland as a subsequent destination) or becoming the New York Mets after the Giants/Dodgers leave. Thanks for digging up that article! I've been looking forward to doing a Salt Lake concept at some point. LOS ANGELES ATHLETICS, REDUX - Rojo Revival The Athletics' attempted move to Los Angeles, whose story I covered here, have long been one of my least favorite designs in the series. I felt that I didn't have much of an idea about their direction, what with the arched and script-style Old English wordmarks and the kelly/yellow color scheme. It was during this thread that @coco1997 recommended a kelly/red/yellow color scheme. While I initially was doubtful about how well that would work, I figured that I should give it a try. Building off of that initial idea (and experiences with the Monterrey Sultanes), I have employed my tweaked elephant designs to the task! The primary is the updated elephant, with the Los Angeles flag colors. The secondaries are the insignias, which include an interlocking "LA" and an updated "A's" design (with some inspiration from @mcrosby's work). We now have a tertiary logo that adopts a heraldry design, with the elephant on top and an alternating pattern of insignias and suns. Double outlines are the main drawing point of the uniforms, with green not touching red and yellow not bordering white. The caps have green crowns, gold insignias, and red bills/buttons. Home uniforms feature the "A's" insignia, while the road set uses the half-arched "Los Angeles" wordmark. The alternates include one set with a red jersey bearing the "Athletics" logo, red socks (with adjusted stripes), and a red cap containing the "LA" insignia. A green jersey also manifests itself with the tertiary on the sleeve. A yellow-gold jersey also appears (with white touching yellow, as a small exception to the rules), as well as the Arnold Johnson-style uniform from the original concept. The primary jacket has been upgraded to match the rest of the set. I'm markedly happier with this design than I was with the original. C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, two heraldry upgrades and few additional tweaks.
  20. This is the first of a big series of updates! Up first, the Philadelphia Athletics! When I first did the Athletics nearly a year ago, I opted for a straight mashup of my Oakland A's concept with the Philadelphia-appropriate colors. However, after doing a litany of A's concepts, I became acutely aware of how slip-shod the mashup was. The problems started with the A's Kansas City/Oakland elephant logo. I've been over this before, but this rendering is terrible. The line weights and details are all over the place, it doesn't shrink all that well, and has no real way to incorporate a "civic" identity. I have ameliorated this problem: The lines are thicker, with consistent weights and better detailing. The ball stitches have also been redone, with a civic logo on the roundel (in this case, the keystone with an Old English P). I've also tweaked the heraldry design from the Louisville/Kansas City/Denver concepts, incorporating details from the 1930 press pin in a more dynamic logo. The Old English wordmarks have also received clean-up, with italics replaced with a half-arch design. These tweaks have all been incorporated into the original designs. The keystone design of the original has become a tertiary, with the heraldry elephant and the "19 A 01" text. The road variants have also returned, with both "Phila" and "Philadelphia" half-arched wordmarks alongside radially-arched "PHILA" logos (both with and without placket trim). I think that it's a cleaner look, giving the classic designs a cleaner style. Up next, the LA A's get a big overhaul (per @coco1997's excellent suggestion)!
  21. Nah. They’re Memphis’ team now, with more success than they’ve ever had in Vancouver. Express is a terrible name.
  22. Royal/yellow/powder could be a fantastic design for Seattle. It would set them apart from the Blues and Sabres pretty effectively, especially with a light blue primary sweater.
  23. I’m not a fan of trying to recapture what Pittsburgh and half of the New York teams have done for their color schemes. It makes their synchronicity less special when other cities copy it. I would like a regionally-appropriate color scheme for the team that doesn’t copy the Mariners/Seahawks/Sonics. Maybe dark green/light blue would be nice?
  24. EDIT: I’m a moron who leapt to conclusions. Whoopsies! Sorry about that one. Anyway, I find it interesting that they cite 2005 as the founding date. It seems that nobody was really fooled by this: ...which is very good. They don’t need throwbacks to learn the history. Like @Gothamite put it, they can find these curiosities on their own.
  25. Yeah, that was a bad example. The old Sonics’ template is too specific, whereas the Senators MK II, Expos, and Thrashers’ uniform templates are common enough. I’d also like to add @Discrimihater‘s Pilots-Brewers and Braves-Brewers designs to the pile: Fauxbacks to pre-relocation or former teams in the area (when several decades removed or using a basic template) can be a fantastic idea. Heck, that’s basically the philosophy behind the Mets’ road uniform.