Philsphan

With the talk of Big East basketball schools jumping ship, I was thinking about how smart it would have been for the ACC to grab Georgetown after Maryland left. Yes, G'town doesn't play FBS football but it secures the DC market again and adds to the overall brand of the ACC. Games against Syracuse, BC and Notre Dame would be great television. If the ACC wanted to go to an 18 team league, they could add Villanova and St. John's. That would give the ACC a basketball monopoly of the East Coast and they could play their conference tournament at MSG.

Jim Delany said the Big Ten wanted to make sure Penn State wouldn't leave the conference when they added Rutgers and Maryland. Does that mean more Northeast teams are on the way? http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=8724603

EDIT: I'll just say it this way, West Virginia fans aren't hillbillies.

Yeah. It's not too controversial. I guess I like it.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Hint: In this modern college landscape, every school is looking out for themselves. No one wants to be left behind in the also-ran conferences that will exist when the dust settles. Notre Dame is no different than any other school that's not tied down in this regard. To a point. If you're already in one of the safe power leagues, you are going to feel a decent amount of loyalty to the overall institution and marching to the same drummer. Unless you're Notre Dame that is. The Irish would want too many breaks for that to work out. Just curious -- what are the safe leagues? By my count, it's Big Ten and SEC, and maybe the Pac-##. If you're in the Big XII and ACC, it seems like there's a very good chance you're not feeling too confident of the long-term health of your league. Just those 3. (Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12) I'm not even sure the Pac 12's a safe league. They aren't going to be raided, but if the Big XII becomes stronger than it already is, who is the Pac 12 going to add to get to 16? I can never see the Pac 12 adding Boise State or even BYU.

Since I can't say anything right around here without sounding like an idiot, here is an intelligent article I found on the latest round of realignment and why the Big XII isn't making any moves soon. http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/11/28/big-12-football-louisville-we-hardly-knew-thee/ Also, could you see BYU getting a partial football membership (5 games like ND) for the Big XII. I don't think the Big XII should add them as full members but if BYU played half of the Big XII teams each year in football, I think that would be a win-win situation.

I feel bad for Southern Miss and UAB. They really don't belong in the C-USun Belt anymore. Both could be candidates for the Big East's 14th member.

Only if they suffer more defections. Another thought, why isn't the ACC going after West Virginia. Is WV locked in some kind of contract?

Sadly, each of those markets have a population which does not attend those games or is a fan of the home town team. There is a larger state university which is preferred at a much larger rate. #4- Philadelphia--Penn State #5-Dallas/SMU--> Texas, aTm, TxTech have larger local alumni bases #9- D.C.--> Hoops only. Navy is known nationally, but not that nice a pick up. #10-Houston (if still a member)--see Dallas #13-Tampa/USF: Both Florida and Florida State #20-Orlando/UCF--> See Tampa #34-Cincinnati--> Ohio State #48:Memphis--> University of Tennessee #50-Louisville: Not a football state #53-New Orleans/Tulane-->LSU San Diego (if still a member)--> USC territory I see what your saying, but, the Big East isn't trying to be a Super Conference. They know they can't beat the SEC or Big Ten in ratings but they can be the runners up. The Big East wants to a) survive make sure that they will be the best mid-major conference once super conferences arrive. Also, Big East schools are second or third in most of these markets. That's good enough!

Tulane is a much better addition for the Big East! They bring the New Orleans market!! East Carolina brings Greenville. Tulane has a reputation as a great university. East Carolina and Tulane to the Big East is equivalent to the Big Ten bringing in Boise State as opposed to say, UNC. UNC (Tulane) brings a market and a solid university to the conference as opposed to Boise State (ECU) brings a football program that has been good in the past 10 years, better than UNC (Tulane) and a non-existent market. Also, Tulane was a member of both the Metro Conference and Conference USA. Other current Big East schools with that description? Cincinnati, Memphis, USF and Louisville. The last of which is vital to the Big Conference USA's existence. OK. I'm ready to hear it...

Let's recap because a lot of good points have been made. 1. The Big East has officially become Conference USA. I actually do think Tulane is a good move though. They are in a major metropolitan area-like every current Big East school, except East Carolina and UConn. 2. Notre Dame will take control of the ACC. Suddenly, what Notre Dame wants to happen will start happening. I think Navy is a very realistic choice for football because it replaces the Baltimore market. The ACC is going to ask to ND to commit to the conference for football, possibly giving Notre Dame essentially, the right to chose their division. I think ND, seeing that the B1G might "give ND the finger" when SuperConferences form, will see that they need the ACC to survive and will commit for football. Notre Dame Navy Syracuse Boston College Pittsburgh Connecticut Georgia Tech Miami Florida State Clemson UNC Duke NC State Wake Forest Virginia Virginia Tech If Notre Dame becomes a full member, I also think that prevents FSU and Clemson from darting to the Big XII although it may not keep other teams from defecting to the B16 Ten or SEC. 3. Seeing ESTONES6's post above got me thinking about K-State. While KSU's academics are very sub-par compared to the snotty Big Ten, but their rise to relevance in football might make them a better candidate than scandal-stricken and bowl-banned UNC or 1-11 Kansas. We'll see!

Notre Dame is more vulnerable than ever though. In 2003 or 2012, the Big Ten was still an option for the Irish as was the ACC. Notre Dame has since joined the ACC leaving the Big East for dead. And we all know that ND to the ACC really ticked off the Big Ten. Notre Dame can't just fall back into the arms of the Big Ten now if SuperConferences were to form. I don't think ND is in the plans of the Big Ten anymore. They are going for large, public, AAU, research universities. Notre Dame needs the ACC to have a seat at the table when SuperConferences come and once that becomes clear to them, they should join the ACC for football to strengthen the conference. Whether they realize that, I don't know.

I think the ony way for the ACC to survive is for Notre Dame to become a football member. They could set up the divisions so ND could still play BC, Pitt, Miami, Wake Forest, etc. every year. I think if ND joins as the 14th football member, FSU and Clemson won't leave and the ACC will stay at 14 barring Big Ten or SEC expansion.

I see Texas as the next domino to fall. Texas and another solid academic school like Kansas would give the Big Ten 16 teams and plunge realignemnt into chaos for one final time. I just don't see Virginia and UNC going to the Big Ten. No huge TV market!

YES! Here's what happens once the ACC falls apart. (In a dream world!) Big East adds Syracuse, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Connecticut, Duke, Wake Forest and Notre Dame for a mega-basketball-conference that is just as good as the other super-conferences in basketball. The New York City Tournament is even cooler now! Big East schools sign an agreement that football will not be as important as basketball and forms a small football league. Syracuse BC Pittsburgh Connecticut Duke Wake Forest Notre Dame (plays a majority of these teams anyway and it only occupies 6 spots on the schedule for ND so they can still play Navy, Stanford, USC, Etc.)

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh How bout this? "The B16”

Very reasonable! The only thing I can think of is moving Florida State to the West and West Virginia to the East to 1) create an opportunity for an FSU Miami championship game 2) reunite WV with Pitt and Syracuse.

Same way I feel about Duke. Hopefully we can join up with Georgetown, Nova and the real Big East basketball schools after this is finished. We'll go Independent for football hopefully.

Rutgers has made a significant investment in the football program, and its starting show. Next years recruiting class would put Rutgers 3rd in the BIG 10 behind Michigan and Ohio State. I believe they have 5 bowl wins since 2006. Sure they may not be one of the big five bowls, but its bowl wins, its bonus money. As someone already said... the BIG 10 is going for footprint. As has been talked about before; The BTN contract stipulates something like $0.30 on the dollar for every TV set in a state that does NOT contain a BIG 10 college. The BIG 10 gets something like $0.70 on the dollar for every TV watching the BTN with in a state that contains a school in the conference. It's not so much that Rutgers is a power house in the New York market... its that the BIG 10 has multiple schools with large fan bases, i.e. Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska, Penn State, Indiana, etc. and many of their schools have extensive alumni networks the plunge into the Atlantic Coast, like New York, New Jersey, Baltimore and Washington DC. A big part of it is not New York watching Rutgers, but New York watching Penn State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Michigan, etc. Its all about the dollars. Its always about the dollars. That's why the SEC has made it clear that the primary focus of their expansion is to new states that don't already have an SEC member college in them. That's why NC State and Virginia Tech make more sense than Clemson and Florida State. It wouldn't be a permanent 13 team league. The Big Ten would never start a season with 13 teams. The Big Ten would invite Maryland and then go after Virginia, UNC and either Duke (becuase UNC wants to stay with Duke) or Georgia Tech-more likely. If all of those teams decline, then invite Rutgers. That would potentially put the Conference on the hook for $200 million. No, that's a non-starter. And Duke's not worth adding. Georgia Tech's likely not worth adding either. Virginia may be a bridge and North Carolina best fits the Big Ten profile (barring massive academic sanctions for their fraud issues) but even that's iffy for addition. And there is the possibility of everybody saying no too. Just avoid the risk and wait to announce until you have 14. Ok, you guys are right. Thank you for answering my question. Sorry for disturbing you.

I don't think Rutgers can bring in the NYC market and neither does an ESPN columnist. http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/2380/does-rutgers-really-bring-in-nyc-market It wouldn't be a permanent 13 team league. The Big Ten would never start a season with 13 teams. The Big Ten would invite Maryland and then go after Virginia, UNC and either Duke (becuase UNC wants to stay with Duke) or Georgia Tech-more likely. If all of those teams decline, then invite Rutgers. You're right. The Big Ten probably won't go into the Northeast. It was just a suggestion.

Here is my latest Super-Conference realignment. 1. Big Ten grabs UNC and UVA. Duke goes Independent to avoid the ensuing chaos in the ACC and remind themselves that they are a basketball schools. 2. Larry Scott, seeing the Big Ten at 16, asks for the Red River gang again. Texas says no again, but this time Scott convinces Kansas, an AAU research school to take Texas' place. It's not perfect, but Scott is desperate not to be left out of super conference realignment and be stuck at 12. Texas goes Independent. 3. SEC adds NC State and Virginia Tech to expand into more markets and get to 16. 4. The Metro Conference forms between all of the schools left out of realignment. Remaining ACC, Big East and Big Twelve Schools join. Florida State Clemson Georgia Tech Wake Forest Louisville Cincinnati Miami West Virginia Iowa State Texas Christian Baylor Kansas State Boston College Syracuse Connecticut Pittsburgh Old Conference USA schools reform minus Lousville and Cincy and the Mountain West stays the same as it is now +SDSU. Also remaining Independent are Notre Dame, Army, Navy and BYU. Lastly, in a desperate move to stay nationally relevant Boise State becomes a football Independent. Notre Dame Army Navy BYU Texas Duke Boise State Idaho New Mexico State

Also, if UNC and UVA go to the Big Ten, can you see Duke going Independent?

Does it occur to you guys that the Big Ten probably shouldn't have taken Rutgers. Then they could've had the oppurtunity topics three of the following, UVA, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech or if they wanted to go Northeast-BC, Pitt, Syracuse, Notre Dame. Rutgers seems like a bad place-filler for the Big Ten. They could've sat temptingly at 13 until they decided about if they wanted to go South or North. Now they are stuck with Rutgers.

I know Maryland takes away from the brand and strength of the ACC, but I don't think they are a terrible loss for the ACC. I repeat, I don't think FSU or GT will leave becuase the ACC is still strong. (They lose Maryland and get Notre Dame?!) The last time Maryland won an ACC football championship was 2001, Notre Dame is probably the most popular team in America and they are ranked #1.

Yeah! I suggested something like this back around page 170 of the Division 1 Realignment Thread last month. The football members of the Big East (in the south) should split off and revive the Metro. I don't think Georgia State or Charlotte are the right choices though. I'd go with Tulane and Southern Miss, both original Metro members. Louisville Cincinnati Houston SMU Memphis Tulane South Florida Central Florida Southern Miss UAB (Temple goes back to the MAC and Navy to Independent)