IceCap

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IceCap last won the day on July 16

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About IceCap

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    local fruit stand

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    Tampa, FL
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    Toronto Blue Jays, Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors

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  1. FTR I'm 100% in favour of a Lukas Rule because the hate people throw at him is really, really petty and derailing. I'd be all for giving someone a mandatory month off for injecting Paul Lukas hate into a thread where he wasn't relevant. So Paul Lukas was the first journalist to cover uniform and logo news in a serious manner. Treating it like real news. And Paul Lukas- like every other human being on Earth- has his preferences, biases, and opinions. In Paul's case he's a fan of traditional uniforms and he's politically liberal. He's been very outspoken about stuff like Chief Wahoo and the Washington Football Team (Est. 1932)'s former name. Some people take GREAT offence to all of that and I have no time for them. Why you ask? Well...it's all so arbitrary. Lukas is like any of us- deeply interested in sports logo and uniform news, aesthetics, discussion. He's just the first guy to make it big talking about it. He was the right guy at the right place at the right time. People who and moan about his preferences and his stances being put on a pedestal fail to realize their blatant hypocrisy. They wouldn't be screaming about him being unable to "keep politics out" if he were a flag waving 'MURICA conservative. Yet because he's a progressive? They're foaming at the mouth. Ultimately Paul Lukas is just a guy with a platform he earned. Don't want to hear what he has to say? Don't visit his site and don't follow him on social media. It's that simple. And to repeat...I'm 100% on board with a month long suspension for anyone who insists on injecting Paul Lukas hate into a thread where he previously wasn't a factor.
  2. The Toronto Maple Leafs sell banners like this that include Cups won while they were known as the Arenas and St. Pats. It's not a big deal. @BringBackTheVet is right though, that officially lists will probably refer to the '82, '87, and '91 Super Bowl Champions as the "Washington Washington Football Team." Official records and fan merch are two different things entirely. Why do you still want to use a slur?
  3. All correct, and well said! The difference is that Sinterklass is himself an example of cultural drift from the legends of the very real Saint Nicolas of Myra. The drift from Saint Nicolas of Myra to Sinterklass is far less clear cut. It involves a great degree of cultural diffusion as the early Christian Church spread westward and northward out of the Mediterranean and into Germanic and Celtic Europe. Saint Nicolas got conflated with a number of European pagan figures, the most prominent being Odin. An old man with a beard who flies around in the sky with flying animals in late December. This mixture of Saint Nicolas of Myra and Odin (with a few other pagan elements tossed in) morphed into Sinterklass. Who, as you outlined, was picked up by Thomas Nast and reinvented as Santa Clause (Father Christmas was a separate syncretism of early Christian concepts and pagan beliefs who got folded into the Saint Nicolas/Odin fusion of Sinterklass later on). Nast drew on a lot of the traditional Sinterklass imagery (beard, red and white outfit, etc). While modern Santa is very much a result of his creation the elements he played with were arrived at by close to a thousand years of mythological drift. I admit this may be me splitting hairs, but it seems as if Nast just took Sinterklass and gave him a makeover to be more marketable He most certainly drew from a variety of sources (and made some other stuff up) but he was mostly rejiggering a concept that had evolved through centuries of mythological drift. The kraken, as a concept, never really got that. Partially as a result of early modern Scandinavia viewing their viking/Norse past with a sense of embarrassment. Studying this stuff was pretty rare in the centuries after Christianization, with a lot of it written off as "pagan barbarism." So a lot of the sagas we now consider classic Norse literature were just sitting in dusty libraries for centuries, neglected by historians and literary scholars alike. In short? Society wouldn't let the kraken properly drift A myth can't drift if no one is spreading it. The late 18th century saw the stirrings of what would becomes the Nordic revival movement, when academics began to study older Norse history seriously, no longer confined by the view that the "pagan" past should be written off as "barbaric." Enter Erik Pontoppidan, a Danish scholar and clergyman. He would have been aware of the kraken myth thanks to this revival. And he also wrote travel log literature. He came across unrelated tales of giant squids and slapped the "kraken" name on them. A few movies later and here we are re: what the kraken is in popular imagination. It may seem like splitting hairs but I see far less cultural drift in the case of the kraken. Whereas Santa Clause arrived to us, via Sinterklass, as a result of centuries of Christian and pagan cultural diffusion. Of course you could argue that the kraken myth entered the popular consciousness later and therefore the process was "sped up" as societal development tends to speed up the further along you are. That would be a very fair point to make. Ok. That's really interesting. Heh. Thanks. I know I'm in the nichiest of niches one this one but it's what it is. It's far easier to accept thanks to the excellent identity. I really do love how even something as basic as the number font gives me a salt-cracked seafaring vibe. It might bring me around in due time. Today isn't that day though. Anyhow that was a very interesting read. And again, my apologies for my earlier loss of composure.
  4. This league's number one draft pick is going to "Team TBD." Jerseys arriving on time was never happening.
  5. The thing is that we can pinpoint when all of this happened. Travel guide literature of the 18th century. Which became incredibly popular. And prominent authors in this genre ended up conflating the old Norse kraken legend with unrelated legends about giant squids. I made a post in the old thread where I sourced all of this stuff down to the first instance of it happening. So while you can point to Santa Clause and Sinterklass as being representations of Saint Nicholas of Myra evolving through cultural mythological drift (though the OG Saint Nic was very real by all accounts)? The kraken is a case where I can pinpoint the moment where that transition happened and go "Erik Pontoppidan just conflated two separate things in a book that became popular." Now does this have any effect whatsoever on the way most people view the kraken? No. Not really. Erik Pontoppidan conflated two things in a popular book and that set the public image of both as one in stone. It is what it is. Still, there's a reason I can enjoy Santa Clause as a jolly reminder of one of my favourite seasons whereas I can't get over my dislike of the Seattle Kraken leaning into the squid thing. And I know that's a niche group I fall into for not being able to get over that, but it is how I feel. And I do feel like I've arrived at that honestly
  6. The Leviathan is a Hebrew legend. Not Greek either
  7. Fanatics everything is awful. Have you handled one of their replica sweaters yet? The thing feels like it's going to fall apart in your hands. Baseball replicas decreased in quality too since Fanatics started making them. You're right. Got a bit heated. I accept your apology, and I apologize myself for my behaviour. I'm just gonna grab a Snickers.
  8. The kraken isn't from Greek mythology. It was originally a giant fish from Scandinavian folkore! This is what I'm talking about people! Kidding of course. Mostly.
  9. disingenuous They're selling merch with the actual text of the meme from the movie on it! It doesn't matter if it's for charity! It's being sold! They put it on there because they knew it would sell, because a huge part of the name's appeal is from the pop culture status of that scene in Clash of the Titans. Trying to deny that movie is at least partially why we're here is downright disingenuous. Do we need to wait for the team to play the clip on the jumbotron before we can all accept that? And of course it's real merch! You can buy it! I REALLY don't think you do. And it's a shame because I usually find myself if not agreeing with you then at least seeing your side of things. Here though? You're flat out dismissing the reasoned opinions of everyone you don't agree with. It sucks considering you re-entered the thread in an attempt to spread some positivity. Following that up with "your entire argument, and your personal reasons for disliking the name, are a strawman" is not really in that spirit.
  10. Hot take: Southern fans care way more than northern fans. They're the ones who get hyper-defensive about this crap. "I want the Nordiques to come back too!" "Ok. How about we relocate one of these struggling southern teams?" "You can't do that!"
  11. I'll be rather frank. If I can bring myself to admit that my own dislike of the name is a result of factors that puts me in a relatively niche group then surely you, a fan of the name, can admit that there are arguments as to why someone wouldn't like it that aren't "strawmen." No, it wasn't. You're claiming the team didn't base the name off of the popularity of the kraken meme from 2010's Clash of the Titans. It's a bold claim to make considering the team itself is selling RELEASE THE KRAKEN merch. https://www.releasethekrakenstore.com/Main/Default Nope. Not getting by from that movie's pop culture status at all.
  12. I mean do you REALLY get to go "you're playing with a false binary" when you say stuff like... ...this? I mean come on man. There have been plenty of people in this thread, myself included, who have explained in depth why they don't like the name. Not snarky internet "hot takes" but honest explanations as to why it doesn't work for them. You are under no obligation to agree with them, but to pretend they don't exist just so you can paint the "hot takes" as the only arguments against the name is poor form.
  13. I'll refer you to this post, as Brian sums it up better than I could...
  14. I'm going to echo @Brian in Boston here. Do you think the team will play up mentions of the kraken in Bruckheimer's Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest or the Clash of the Titans film with the "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!" line that Bruckheimer had no part in?