IceCap

A business? Depends. If I ran a minor league outfit sure I'd bring in uniform ads because the profit margins on those are incredibly thin. Ads, theme nights, whatever you gotta do to get people in the building. But if I was a billionaire who owned a team in a pro league where tv rights fees and profits from ticket, merch, and concession sales are constantly rising? No. I wouldn't bring ads in. It cheapens the aesthetic of what should be a top flight team and dirties a brand that's potentially over a hundred years old. If not a few decades old at least. @spartacat_12 brought up FIFA. They're the ultimate corporate whores but even they think there's value to be had in not putting ads on national football/soccer team uniforms. Which... look I'm not going to be on the same page as FIFA often... but I am here. You risk long term sullying of your brand chasing short term gain.

I would prefer grey facemasks for the Browns but white > brown

I told you earlier that projection isn't an admirable quality and this is what I meant. You go on and on and on and on about me wanting an echo chamber, not wanting discussion... but this back and forth between us was started by me calling out the attitude you displayed. I'm quite content to have a discussion. Even an argument. But you're the one playing victim because someone is actually challenging their point of view. You're the one asking the other guy to not respond. So stuff your accusations that I just want an echo chamber. It's clear to me you're the one bothered by an actual argument. I wouldn't say you're "making it up," no, but selectively choosing facts to suit a narrative. These aren't independent businesses. They're parts of larger corporations or the domain of independently wealthy billionaires. I'm from just outside of Toronto. I have seen first hand the sheer size and wealth that MLSE has at their disposal, much less the telecom duopoly that owns them. So forgive me if I balk at the idea that the Leafs and Raptors need jersey ads to help pay the bills. Which circles back to my main point re: the necessity of ads. TV rights fees are at all time highs. Merch sales and prices are both at all time highs. Ticket and concession prices are at all time highs. Broadcast ad fees are at their all time high while their frequency increases. And just in general, the gap between rich and poor is higher than its ever been since the end of WWII. All of which tells me the leagues, teams, and billionaires who own them are richer then ever. Which makes the idea that they suddenly need uni ads now when they didn't twenty years ago ridiculous to me. Yeah it does. A generous reading of your argument and intent behind it may mean you don't intend to come off like a shill for billionaires, but that's what you're doing. Part B isn't convincing me of Part A there. But you know what? If shilling for uniform ads is how you want to spend your time here, go for it. I'll continue to think it's a weird position at best and intentionally passive aggressive at worst, but you do you. I've said my peace.

The """have nots""" in baseball are teams still owned by billionaires and make more money as operations then you or I will see in a lifetime. No. I don't see any of that as justification for ads on uniforms. Oh lord... really? No. Not really. Not at all. Oh my good G-d. You don't get it. The need to play this holier than though/"Actually...." card is the problem I'm pointing out in the first place. If that's the attitude you're taking then I legitimately think you're on the wrong board. It's like when people say "I think Team X should change its look" and someone goes "lol uniforms don't matter, they don't affect the play on the field." Like... where do you think you are? If you want to be offended by that go ahead. It was meant as mild snark. But from where I stand your entire position is, at best, about a need to take a contrarian position to feel smarter than everyone else or at worst it's a case of you defending billionaires who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

Projection isn't an attractive quality. You're not getting my original point. I mean you said... "Ads suck, they're ugly, and I wish uniforms were the way they used to be..." Seem smile an "ads are bad" take to me! But I mentioned my original point. And how you don't get it. Maybe that's on me for not wording it properly, so I'll make it as clear as I can. This is a message board dedicated to sports uniform aesthetics. In a setting like this the position that "ads are bad," "ads are ugly," or "ads ruin team identities" shouldn't be surprising. That, in short, is my point. So the desire, the dare I say need, for some people to "well actually" and talk down to everyone else about the """necessity""" of ads is what is strange to me. This isn't about echo chambers, my guy. It's about the inherent need some people on the internet have to seeing a large group of people react in an expected, logical manner and taking up the contrarian position. And in terms of echo chambers... if you were so keen to avoid them you could have addressed my other points but you didn't. And that's no problem. You don't have to address them. But coming here to say "well I guess you just don't want to have a discussion" when avoiding points of discussion is... a choice. Anyhow... As a fan of sports logo and uniform aesthetics ads are ugly and intrusive. As a fan interested in the history of sport, these leagues, and these teams ads seem like an affront to the identities they wear. As a man with a pretty good memory, the ability to read and comprehend the world around me, and functional eyes and ears... I fail to see the practical needs of teams and leagues to add ads when 1) broadcast money is bigger than it ever was before 2) jersey sales (and prices!) are the highest they've ever been 3) tickets and in-game refreshments are as expensive as they've ever been 4) commercials are as prevalent as they've ever been, and 5) the gap between the haves and have-nots is bigger than it has ever been in the last sixty years. From my perspective as a lowly peasant leagues, teams, and the billionaires who own them have more money coming in now then they did twenty years ago. Which makes the """necessity""" of ads dubious at best.

Neither do I. I live in the real world where uniform ads weren't necessary for decades upon decades upon decades. See the above. Also... why else are they doing it? It's certainly not for the aesthetics. Try again. The thing is... this is a forum dedicated to sports aesthetics. Like... that's the main thing. So I find myself wondering why there's this attitude of "well actually..." from a segment of the posting population is surfacing.

Rational explanations are fine, but when it becomes "you don't understand why it's necessary" it's like... come the on. We're here to talk about uniform design. Setting aside the fact that the explanations aren't entirely convincing, "you should just accept it" isn't convincing on a site dedicated to aesthetics.

This is a community dedicated to sports aesthetics. And I just find the notion of both being into the design and aesthetics of sport and being ok with advertising creep very strange. The act of injecting ads into uniforms is itself an act that lessens the aesthetics of what we're all here to supposedly enjoy.

People attempting to justify ads here will always confuse me.

It would... but it might be infringing on the Wild's look a bit. The main thing that would separate the Wild's scheme and the Devils' hypothetical red, green, and white scheme would be the Wild's use of gold and wheat. I donno. Red, black, and white is a perfectly acceptable colour scheme for a team called the Devils. And they won three Cups in it. But there's something so odd and unique and charming about the red, green, and white scheme.

I hate to say it because I think the Cowboys with a standardized silver/blue combo would look amazing, but I think you're right. It's so strange. If the Cowboys standardized things 15-20 years ago I don't think anyone would complain, or miss the mismatch. But they've kept it so long, so deep into the era of HD tv, that I think it's crystallized as just part of the Cowboys' look for better or worse. For me it's like the Bruins and the black or gold sock debate. Sure the black socks look good! Probably better than the gold socks, objectively speaking. But they just look "wrong," and the gold socks look "right."

Did I ever say they couldn't?

Eh.... between the silver helmets for Houston and the Dallas Renegades' use of black I'd say that the XFL 2.0's Roughnecks were still more evocative of the Oilers. But these new Renegade uniforms... they don't use any black. And the road whites almost entirely use powder blue and red. It's pretty damn Oilers-y. Whereas the Roughnecks have doubled down on navy and red, gradients, and some helmet atrocity that makes me wanna cry. I'll agree with this though. The XFL 2.0's uniforms weren't great. They had their problems. The Renegades' black monochrome was one big one. But overall 2.0 looked better than 3.0. There isn't a single uniform set in this new batch that works.

The Sharks embracing their identity as the reborn Seals is beautiful.

Total trash from the XFL 3.0 Also lol at Dallas Arlington looking more like the Oilers than Houston.

That look is so stuffy.

Traditional purple, gold, green, and white with sky blue highlights is a good way forward for the Jazz. They've had so many disparate colour schemes already. Another one is probably going to do more harm than good, so might as well just mix the two most popular and call it a day.

"Most forgettable" Stanley Cup Finals is so subjective. Why would Tampa/Dallas or Tampa/Montreal be forgettable given the craziness around how we got there? And then you get into the "normal" seasons. What makes a Cup Final forgettable? Like I said it's so subjective. So maybe "I didn't like the uniform the winning team wore" isn't the best measuring stick to use when it comes to a Cup Final's memorability.

It's a fun "what if?" look about the Devils keeping their Scouts/Rockies colours. But the Devils were red, green, and white for ten years. And have been red, black, and white for thirty years and three Cups. So it might be too late to decide they're a red, white, blue, and gold team now

No people dislike you because you went into a soccer thread to :censored: about soccer. Do you not understand the concept of not pissing on someone else's parade?

Christian Pulisic saying "we deserve more." Shut the up. I hate that attitude across sports. You deserve whatever you were able to do.

The law of bat insane conspiracy theories says "soon"

Aaron Rodgers speedrunning a "what it means to be a dip in 2022" achievement. There's still time for him to blame everything on the Jews by the end of the year! https://www.mediaite.com/sports/former-nfl-qb-claims-aaron-rodgers-pushed-9-11-conspiracy-theories-he-told-me-i-should-read-up-on-them/