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MC Buffalo

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  1. I apologize if this was already brought up earlier in this thread. I started reading every page, so I didn't send a duplicate message, but after about page 10 I just couldn't continue... Also, I am not trying to start a discussion about whether teams should or shouldn't have to move away from a name deemed insensitive either, but I did have the following thought... Isn't there a way for the Cleveland Baseball team to close the door on the Indians era by changing the name, logo etc... but still keep an association with Native American heritage while beginning a new era? Something as simple as the Cleveland Tribe, which seems to work for William & Mary College athletics and has often been a moniker used to reference the team in the past. I know when the Buffalo Bisons were the AAA affiliate of the Indians, the parent club was often referred to as "The Tribe" when talking about player callups/demotions. OR Like Florida State has done with the Seminole Tribe in Florida, Cleveland could work with the leadership of any still existing Nation that used to be native to Northeast Ohio. From a website that is maintained by the University of Akron, regarding Native American nations that lived in the Northeast Ohio area... The Mingos were an Iroquoian group which consisted of mostly of former Seneca as well as Cayuga, Mohawks, Oneidas, Onondagas, Tuscarawas, and a few non-Iroquoian Mohicans. So you could have the Cleveland Mingos or Cleveland Iroquois, etc. No cartoonish characterization like Chief Wahoo, but just mutually approved identities and logos that both the Native Leadership and Team Leadership can agree on.
  2. Being a lifelong Buffalonian who is old enough to remember watching the team live, even went to a few games at the Aud. I LOVED these jerseys best, but they were very short lived. I think two seasons. No idea why they went away from the style and colors. The Baby Blue set was actually very sharp as well when I think about the Braves of old, Bob McAdoo, Randy Smith, Ernie D. it's the baby blue that come to mind. As far as stepping on the Trail Blazers toes, the Braves Orange/Black diagonals were long gone before the Trailblazers went diagonal. They are definitely the team most associated with diagonal striping over the years now, but there is "pre-Portland" precedence if the Clippers wanted to go back to that template. It's been a little bitter sweet seeing the Clippers embrace their Braves days the past few years. I was 13 and so very PISSED off when they left town for San Diego. The first few years I rooted against the Clippers to the point of it didn't matter who they played, it could be the Celtics or Bullets who as a Braves Fan were the teams that I hated because they had beaten on us the most during playoffs etc. As long as I could check the Buffalo Evening News each night and see the Clippers lost, I was happy. My interest in the NBA waned over the years along with my hatred for the Clippers, but I still find it hard to root for the team that broke my Middle School heart all those many years ago. I have plenty of teams still in town who break my heart every year to root for (thank you Bills and Sabres)..
  3. Not to be a stickler (who are we kidding the whole CCSL Community is a bunch of guys who obsess on details), The Bills kept the Blue Facemask with the Red Helmet through the 96 Season. They didn't switch to White until 1997, if you look at any pics of Jim Kelly's rookie season you will see the facemasks were still Blue.
  4. I feel like you can't lump the New Era and Nike logos now being on the hats/uniforms together with each team selling ad space to another partner. In the NFL, you have been able to see the mfr of the Jerseys clearly since at least the late 70's, and I believe you can always see the mfr of the helmets clearly called out, that one I'm not as sure about from memory. The NHL jerseys have the adidas logo, when each team could hae their own manufacturer, you would see CCM, and other mfrs as well. To me if they are the manufacturing and supplying the uniforms/hats it only makes sense that their logos would be visible. Just about any Knit Pullover (what we affectionately call a Polo or Golf Shirt) that you purchase from any retail or online store is going to have the mfr logo (example, the Nike swoosh) proudly displayed. It's very unusual to not have a brand of sneaker easily identifiable when looking at it based on the mfr's logo being proudly displayed. I certainly don't have any contracts in place, and have never received a check, from any of these companies to display their logos.
  5. OK, I'm gonna take back the phrase "true fan" HOWEVER, I'm replying to this reply, because I don't think that was the best "TEAM" in franchise history. They absolutely had the best goalie ever and if he wasn't on his game, and by that I mean give up more than 1 goal we were likely to lose. The 1974-75 team was better overall, but did not have the goal-tending they needed and then ran into a Flyers team who wasn't really playing Hockey during those championship seasons it was more like UFC on Ice. To be honest I think the best Sabres team in history was actually the 1979-80 tean, Scotty Bowman at the helm Danny Gare led the league in Goals (tied at the top) Jim Schoenfeld led the league in +/- Bob Sauve/Don Edwards won the Vezina, they were number 1 and 3 in the league in Goals Against AVG. (it was a team award at that time) This team then ran into the Buzzsaw that was the Islanders in the Semi-Finals as they were beginning their dynasty of four cups in a row. I would even put the 1992-93 team ahead of 98/99. Alex Mogilny with 76 Goals Pat Lafontaine with 148 Points Unfortunately it was Hasek's first year with the team and no one knew yet what they had. He appeared in 28 games and his stats where anything but impressive. The following year he played 58 games had a sub 2 GAA and won the first of his 7 Vezina trophies. That Hasek in net with Mogilny/Lafontaine of 92/93 puts them over the top. 93/94 Lafontaine plays in just 16 games and his concussions issues remained for the rest of his career.
  6. OK, see now we are getting closer to meeting on some middle ground. My objection to bring back the Goat Head era was going back to Red/Black. Now if you can show me an updated look with just the Goat Head and a new Blue/Gold template we can talk. But honestly as much as some people do like the Goat Head, I think if you put it to a vote and you could somehow take nostalgia and per-ordained bias out of it, I think the Current Sabres Logo is much more aesthetically pleasing than the Goat Head. C'mon, it's one of the few logos that is Phonetic. Buffalo on top of Sabres.
  7. If the Red and Black era was brought about for honest reasons to truly try and re-brand the Buffalo Sabres for a new era, then I could look back at it and say 'not my cup of tea, but appreciate those who did (or do) like it..." In Pittsburgh the owners of the Penguins, at the time, tried to capitalize on the tradition of winning that the Pirates and Steelers of the 70's had established and rebranded and changed their colors to Black/Yellow, completely understandable. The owners of the Sabres had no other reason to change their colors to Red/Black than a corporate tie in with the Cable Company owned by the new owners. This is what I objected to then and why I still object to reusing as a "throwback identity" now. The owner turning out to literally be a criminal who is living out the rest of his days in a Federal Prison just taints the Red/Black era even more. Scandalous History is often expunged from Sports. I don't foresee the Buffalo Bills holding an O.J. Simpson day at the Stadium any time soon and I don't think the current Sabres ownership should embrace that era's identity when The Sabres were born Blue/Gold and are now back to Blue/Gold. I have no problem with the Sabres embracing the actual teams that were on the ice and all their accomplishments. Yes they had some really good seasons in Red/Black, those memories should be held in high esteem. I just don't want to ever see the team take the ice in those Jerseys ever again. Call me what you wish, I could care less, I'll take all the hate and social media style outrage thrown this way. For THIS issue I stand firm. This team almost left this city because of what John Rigas and The Adelphia Communications group did, if it had just been misguided leadership, it could be forgiven, but when it comes from a place of pure vanity and greed, criminal even, then maybe we use the old adage "forgive maybe, forget never!" and we leave the Black and Red Jerseys where they belong on the scrap heap of history and the back of peoples closets. Yes "TRUE" fans of the Sabres should know the history of their team enough to know that the Rigas era was everything that can be wrong in sports ownership.
  8. I stand corrected on it being "official" but stand hard behind the statement... "Anyone who embraces the return of the Black and Red era is either under 30 or not a true fan..."
  9. I don't think this is an actual anniversary logo released by the team itself. I belief this is just a mockup someone did. The team has released two 50th Anniversary logos, one for the jersey and one for advertising etc... and both were based off current color scheme/logo. I personally hope they NEVER EVER bring back the red and black era of Buffalo Sabres, unless the team is gong to wear prison stripes. To Buffalo Fans old enough to remember the Knox ownership era, the Red and Black represents an era of corruption and fear that the team was going to have to be sold to out of town interests and leave. When John Rigas purchased the Sabres he changed their colors to Red and Black to match his Adelphia Cable Communications empire where he made most of his money. It made no sense to the fans of Buffalo and it wasn't all that well received, but this era coincided with a brief uptick in performance led single handedly by the goal-tending of Dominik Hasek. When a team is having some success, secondary irritants, like team colors logo tend to take a back seat to the fun (as it should). Lo and behold it turned out the Rigas family were using the Sabres organization as their personal "slush fund" to build Golf Courses, take Vacations etc.... Well John Rigas and I believe two of his sons were indicted, which set off a three year :censored: storm where I was convinced we were going to lose this team. Thanks to Rochester Businessman Tom Golisano the team's future in Buffalo was secured for a few more years. His interest in the Sabres was purely in the hopes of securing votes in Western NY for a run at the Governors Mansion in New York State. Once he lost that election, you could tell he had no more interest in owning the Hockey Team and once again things got a little dicey around here until Terry Pegula stepped up and purchased the team and truly did cement that the Buffalo Sabres would be staying put for the long haul (then he extended his empire and influence in the region and purchased the Buffalo Bills when Ralph Wilson died a few years later). My sons love the Red and Black Sabres era uniforms/logos, but simply because it's the first one's they can remember from when they were little. I would prefer they wear the Buffaslug logo/uniforms than the red/black Goat Head, and I think that statement clearly shows how much I hate the red/black if I am embracing the slug.
  10. I'm not sure what they are officially called (compression pants maybe), but those blue yoga pants these three are wearing under their uniform which seems to be all the rage right now look awful. It doesn't matter if they are white, which you see mostly or a color they just stick out so much that it hurts the aesthetic of any uniform. Don't get me wrong, I would imagine there is a good reason so many players have gone to wearing them, maybe they give the knee some additional stability or something, so I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to wear them. Just saying they are ugly.
  11. Was this the picture of your Little League team before heading off to Dairy Queen to celebrate their Under 10 Championship?
  12. Gogolak broke into Professional football with the Buffalo Bills in the AFL. He was their kicker for both their 1964 and 1965 AFL Championship Season. In 1965 he was 28 of 46 (60.9%), second in the AFL behind Gino Capelletti of the Patriots. 60.9% wouldn't keep you on an NFL Roster today for more than 3 weeks. The WORST percentage in the league in 2018 was 65% by Chris Boswell of the Steelers and he was a 92% kicker just one year earlier.
  13. But how do you pronounce Center Martin "St.Louis". I'm guessing we all agree it's Looey and not Loo-is
  14. Well you know the Florida State Motto.... "Florida - The Ontario of the South"
  15. This has instigated some discussion, mostly locally in Buffalo but somewhat nationwide. Thought I would bring it up here to get this communities reactions/opinion. Not a 2019 Draft Pick and his new number, but a new free agent and his number..... The Buffalo Bills have issued free agent signee RB Senorise Perry #32. This number has not been given out by the Buffalo Bills since they traded OJ Simpson to the San Francisco 49ers after the 1977 Season. OJ was the first Buffalo Bill ever enshrined in the NFL HOF and the first Buffalo Bill put up on the "Wall of Fame" at the Bills Stadium. Although the Bills have not issued #32 since 1977, they never officially "retired" the number. Though they had plenty of time to between 1981 when he retired from the 49ers and 1994 when his personal life became a crap show. The Bills have since retired #12 (Jim Kelly), #78 (Bruce Smith) and #34 (Thurman Thomas). You guys may have heard of a small off the field "incident" that many attribute to Mr. Simpson. Though officially and legally he was acquitted of said offenses. Despite what has happened in OJ's life outside of football the NFL has not removed him from the HOF and the Bills have not removed him from their WOF (though on the Bills Wall of Fame where his name used to sit in the "middle" very prominently, it has since been pushed to the "end of the line". I am old enough (53) to remember actually watching OJ in his prime, 2003 yds rushing in 1973 etc. As a 7 - 12 year old he was without a doubt my favorite Buffalo Bill and well loved everywhere even outside of Buffalo. When the murders happened, I remember hoping and praying that they had the wrong guy and he would be PROVEN innocent. Well we all know how it played out and I think we can all agree the word PROVEN doesn't fit. Regardless of the outcome of the trial and the ongoing drama after the trial, I was always adamant that the on field accomplishments and the off the field behavior could be kept separate enough that he needn't be removed from the HOF or WOF. I certainly wouldn't expect (nor would I want) the Bills to ever feature him as a team ambassador like they currently do with Kelly, Thomas and many other retired players. It was also obvious that there would never be a ceremony to "officially" retire his number though unofficially they had removed it from circulation. Now to today... I think it's mostly a clear divide. If your a local Buffalonian younger than mid 40's your thoughts are who cares he was a POS they shouldn't care about giving out #32, but if your around 50 years old or older, the initial reaction to the Bills giving out #32 is NO, that number is not supposed to be handed out ever again. I know when I heard that was my official gut reaction, but it didn't take long for me to get over how the 10 year old would feel and how it looks in 2019. I'm sorry this is a long post, but I wanted to get this communities reaction AND I wanted to float what I have thought the Team should have done regarding the #32. I feel like it should never be worn again, BUT the Bills should position it not that they are honoring OJ Simpson by not handing out #32, but that the #32 has such a stigma attached to it regarding the Buffalo Bills, that almost as if the number is cursed it's in the best interest of the Buffalo Bills to never issue this number again.
  16. With the shape of the ball and the single bar helmet, this looks like it could be the logo for the Rollerball League. I know I'm dating myself, how many on here remember the movie Rollerball starring James Caan? I know they made a remake a few years ago, but the helmet looks more like the old days.
  17. I see that Chris just posted information on the Buffalo Sabres 50th Anniversary commemorative logo. The Buffalo Bills are celebrating their 60th Anniversary this year...
  18. Bills fan here.... I am thrilled we ended up with Ed Oliver with the 9th pick in this years draft, but was just slightly hoping that Kentucky DE Josh Allen would be the Bills Pick. Just to see how they would differentiate the Nameplate for Josh Allen as opposed to Josh Allen! QB - OJ Allen (for Offensive Josh) DE - DJ Allen (for Defensive Josh) but alas, it was not to be.
  19. I stand corrected on the Creamsicle throwback theory, and I did kind of figure the One Helmet rule was a huge reason they hadn't done anything recently. I still believe, in my humble opinion, that when push comes to shove the vast majority of people would choose one of the post Bucco looks over the Creamsicles if a choice had to be made. Nostalgia is a strong motivator when "selling" something. it's why we have the current/retro Pepsi Cans back even if just temporarily. almost all if the General Mills Cereals have come out with retro box designs. If you want something to be popular, get ride of it, wait 15 years and re-release it. Sadly there is a whole generation of fans here in Buffalo who want the Black/Red "Goat Head" look to come back. For those of us not 20 something or younger that is sacrilege. The Black/Red was a corporate play to align the colors of the Owners at the time's main business (Adelphia Cable), with their new hockey team. That didn't end well, with Prison Time for the owners and Bankruptcy for the Sabres. Why would anyone want to relive that?
  20. Don't you all think that if there was a chance in Heck that the Bucs would ever go back to Creamsicle look they would have brought out a Creamsicle alternate by now. The Chargers teased the powder blues for years before finally wearing them in a game again. And now they added a Royal Blue Fouts/Coryell jersey to their lineup as well. I think an even larger contingent of fans nationwide were crying for the Powder Blue Chargers than cry out for the Creamsicle Buccaneers now. The Broncos wear their original Brown/Yellow, Jets wear original Titans Colors. The Eagles and Packers both still wear those abominations they like to call throwback uniforms. I think it's pretty clear no one associated with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers wants anything to do with turning the clock all the way back to the late 70's/80"s. Keep Bucco Bruce where he belongs, a choice when playing Madden.
  21. Please tell me that someone did a whole series of Concepts based off Pat Patriot and all the NFL teams. and If so, PLEASE post link. I've always been a much bigger fan of Pat the Center than Elvis. Would love to see a roid rage Buffalo and a few other teams in this.
  22. If you look at the Brand Guidelines they also released and read down a few pages, you get a better idea on what they were trying with the new "crown". It appears they are also alluding to a camera aperature, and you can see when they give the logo some depth and texture making it slightly 3D the crown works. It doesn't really improve what the final product is, but it makes a little more sense in context.
  23. OK. Let's Compromise. From this day forward, they shall be called the Syracuse Suburbans, but like the Metropolitans we shall shorten it to the Syracuse Subs Don't the people of NYC think pretty much the rest of New York State is just a Suburb of NYC anyway?
  24. I was thinking the same thing. The blue panel that contains the "10" especially looks like a leather purse or automobile interior. And it looks like their Jersey sponsorship will be VICE (Digital Media and Television Network) instead of TELUS which I believe is a Canadian cellular phone service provider.
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