Minor League Hockey Shake-up...coming

[AnPheitseog]

2 hours ago, rams80 said:

 

No arena worth sticking a team in.

Royal Farms Arena sits 11k, about the same, if not bigger, than some AHL arenas.

[dfwabel]

14 minutes ago, DiePerske said:

Royal Farms Arena sits 11k, about the same, if not bigger, than some AHL arenas.

But it's old as hell with little premium areas but for the stage on one end.

 

There has been talk of a new arena for over a decade and the latest plan was around 2010-11 with a green roof and a convention center hotel has hafbzero progress. 2022 is the earliest for any replacement and that clock keeps ticking.

The 2011 plan literally died with the 95 year old developer in 2014.

 

 

 

 

[Geoff]

Doesn't mean it worth putting a team there. There's more to it than capacity.

 

Also, I wouldn't hold my breath about Owensboro. Even if come back, Geary has made his bed with area hockey fans and SPHL Evansville will have a year up on them.

[rams80]

2 hours ago, dfwabel said:

But it's old as hell with little premium areas but for the stage on one end.

 

There has been talk of a new arena for over a decade and the latest plan was around 2010-11 with a green roof and a convention center hotel has hafbzero progress. 2022 is the earliest for any replacement and that clock keeps ticking.

The 2011 plan literally died with the 95 year old developer in 2014.

 

 

 

 

To add, Baltimore was one of the AHL's flagship markets for much of the 2nd half of the 20th century.  It's telling that said flagship market has been vacant for almost 20 years now.

[Sodboy13]

Didn't the Caps attempt a couple of preseason games in Baltimore, then say "Yeah, we can't afford to have our players die in September for thr sake of regional outreach"?

[Still MIGHTY]

6 hours ago, Geoff said:

Also, I wouldn't hold my breath about Owensboro. Even if come back, Geary has made his bed with area hockey fans and SPHL Evansville will have a year up on them.

 

And today was the day I first learned where Evansville and Owensboro were on a map.

[Still MIGHTY]

Tucson Roadrunners, it is

[JackieMoon]

Love the iconic look of the old Phoenix Roadrunners.

[BeerGuyJordan]

Not so sure I would call what they did iconic. I'm glad it emulates the WHA logo more than the ECHL one, but still a lot of issues with that logo. I would have preferred something more modern, rather than saving money by (poorly) updating a logo with your in-house people...er...I mean rather than resting on another city's hockey history, instead of your own.

 

This site has turned me into such a logo snob...a couple of years ago, I would have been fine with it.

[rams80]

54 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

Not so sure I would call what they did iconic. I'm glad it emulates the WHA logo more than the ECHL one, but still a lot of issues with that logo. I would have preferred something more modern, rather than saving money by (poorly) updating a logo with your in-house people...er...I mean rather than resting on another city's hockey history, instead of your own.

 

This site has turned me into such a logo snob...a couple of years ago, I would have been fine with it.

 

It's really the state's history.  Tucson's history is not great unless you want to be sued by the local university-they had a team in the original Central Hockey League for a single season and that is it aside from the University of Arizona's club team.

[BeerGuyJordan]

12 minutes ago, rams80 said:

 

It's really the state's history.  Tucson's history is not great unless you want to be sued by the local university-they had a team in the original Central Hockey League for a single season and that is it aside from the University of Arizona's club team.

I meant that they would be better doing something new, rather than honoring any former team, especially one from Phoenix. 

 

Aside from the IceCats, Tucson has actually had THREE minor league teams, the Mavericks (75-76 CHL), Rustlers (78-79 PHL) and Gila Monsters (97-99 WCHL). They also had a WPHL team planned that never took the ice: the Tucson Scorch.

 

Still, not exactly a long and storied history there. But honoring Phoenix's hockey history is just another example of Tucson kind of being expected to just be content with the scraps from Phoenix metro's table, a trend many have come to resent. Creating an identity that would be solely Tucson's would have been a better way to go.

[rams80]

3 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

I meant that they would be better doing something new, rather than honoring any former team, especially one from Phoenix. 

 

Aside from the IceCats, Tucson has actually had THREE minor league teams, the Mavericks (75-76 CHL), Rustlers (78-79 PHL) and Gila Monsters (97-99 WCHL). They also had a WPHL team planned that never took the ice: the Tucson Scorch.

 

Still, not exactly a long and storied history there. But honoring Phoenix's hockey history is just another example of Tucson kind of being expected to just be content with the scraps from Phoenix metro's table, a trend many have come to resent. Creating an identity that would be solely Tucson's would have been a better way to go.

 

1.  The West Coast AHL teams aren't run as moneymakers.

2.  You mentioned two other teams, both of which lost a lot (and one was the dreaded mid-season fold).  Left to its own devices, Tucson hockey does not have anything to point to aside from Arizona's club team.

[BeerGuyJordan]

7 minutes ago, rams80 said:

 

1.  The West Coast AHL teams aren't run as moneymakers.

2.  You mentioned two other teams, both of which lost a lot (and one was the dreaded mid-season fold).  Left to its own devices, Tucson hockey does not have anything to point to aside from Arizona's club team.

What does point #1 have to do with anything I just said? Besides that, if you think any non-San Jose pacific division team is just content to exist and isn't trying to turn a profit, you're delusional.

 

Again, I specifically said that Tucson doesn't have a wealth of history. I mentioned the other two teams because you said that they only had one prior team. I was correcting a false statement.

 

I was advocating creating an identity (with a modern logo) that let Tucson forge its own history, free of ties to old Phoenix teams.

[rams80]

Very rare is the NHL parent-owned team that is actually run with an idea towards maximizing profit.  If you think Calgary is trying to run Stockton as a moneymaker, good Lord you've never paid attention to the AHL, have you.  And Edmonton doesn't have that much of a better record.

 

So yeah, letting Tucson "forge its own history" is for more effort than it is worth for the Coyotes.

 

Granted pretending anything related to the Coyotes is permanent enough to try to build a lasting history is also an exercise in stupidity.

[Still MIGHTY]

Tucson should just be happy we haven't asked for a refund on the Gadsden Purchase.

[BeerGuyJordan]

6 hours ago, rams80 said:

Very rare is the NHL parent-owned team that is actually run with an idea towards maximizing profit.  If you think Calgary is trying to run Stockton as a moneymaker, good Lord you've never paid attention to the AHL, have you.  And Edmonton doesn't have that much of a better record.

 

So yeah, letting Tucson "forge its own history" is for more effort than it is worth for the Coyotes.

 

Granted pretending anything related to the Coyotes is permanent enough to try to build a lasting history is also an exercise in stupidity.

You never said maximiing profit before, I wouldn't say any team has that as the AHL franchise's goal. Development comes first, pretty much exclusively. For a lot of teams, brand growth & fan investment comes next. But no team is fine with not making a profit. There are some clubs that seem to run their farm team(s) like they aren't sweating the losses, but Profit is the only hockey god that matters to most owners. 

 

I think all the Pacific teams figured they could make their locations profitable. The notable exception being the Sharks. Unless they plan to move the Barracuda to Oakland after the Warriors leave, I don't think they have the slightest idea what to do with their affiliate. Stockton and maybe Bakersfield will likely be moving in a few years.

 

I know why the Coyotes made the move they did with Tucson, but I just hoped they might show more business sense than that. Tucson has the potential to really help the franchise out, if they handle it right, but with it being a non-traditional market, they have to make a lot of smart moves, and get a little bit of luck.. If they screw the pooch, it'll be one more problem for the club. I worry that this is just an early indicator that they don't understand the market they've gotten themselves into. The Old Pueblo is a little different than Phoenix (and they can't even handle that market).

[BeerGuyJordan]

7 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

Tucson should just be happy we haven't asked for a refund on the Gadsden Purchase.

I'll assume that was a joke, because the Gadsen Purchase portion has most likely been more profitable than the rest of the state, primarily due to mining.

[rams80]

Calgary has had a team in the following markets since 2000

 

Saint John, Nova Scotia,

Omaha, Nebraska

Moline, Illinois

Abbotsford, British Columbia

Glens Falls, New York

Stockton, California

 

This is not the run of an organization that is trying to make a profit at all.  Abbotsford stuck it out the longest during that time frame, and that took a Glendale deal on the part of the city.  Moline is particularly egregious, given the fact that it had been a successful minor league market prior to the Flames showing up.

 

The true success stories of this past season involve a major league market that did well for hockey but was vacant because of questions about the arena, and a former NHL team-owned ECHL organization that had been reasonably successful before making the jump.

 

[The_Admiral]

Calgary doesn't run their farm team to turn a profit or compete but their prospects always suck. The Rockford IceHogs only exist as a cheap and local pipeline, but at least they've reliably produced NHL talent.

[Cosmic]

This is a few years ago now, but the Sabres bought the Amerks for $5M. They weren't even for sale; $5M was the "can't walk away" price for a mid-drawing AHL team. That tells me there's probably not a ton of money to be made owning an AHL team, maybe with a few exceptions.