Report: NHL Expanding league, Adding 4 Teams by 2017

[worcat]

What's this guy got against Milwaukee?

Apparently, it's impossible for a city to like a football team and a hockey team at the same time.

Small market teams? Yes. Give me one example where a professional football team and hockey team have been successful in a small market. Yeah, thought so.

Buffalo seems to have made it work.

C... c... c'mon man! That was my thing! You stole my thunder!

Being successful on the field doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being a stable franchise. In fact, if you can keep the fanbase involved even when the team is in the dumps, it says even more about the strength of the franchise/fanbase/city.

The only group looking to move the Bills to Toronto has basically fallen apart; Bon Jovi is reportedly looking for another group to latch on to. Groups from LA reportedly stayed out of the bidding, because it would have been too hard to move the team. They're going to get either a new stadium or a super renovation (like Arrowhead or Lambeau), it's only a matter of time.

The Sabres were good from the early to mid 90s to the middle of the 2000s with only a couple of stinker seasons. Then, there was some mediocrity as they tried to cling to their remaining core from the good years. Now, they're rebuilding. In 2015, they'll start moving up the standings again. And after finishing 14 points behind 29th place, the Sabres had almost 10,000 show up to their rookie minicamp scrimmage. So things look OK there.

The Sabres have a solid young core and I can't wait to see how they grow, I'm not wishing anything against small market teams but DON'T tell me that small market teams - especially in an NHL and NFL market can occur - not that I wanted this to be a subject or discussion but since "they" brought it up, no one has confirmed anything besides myself with Tampa and that was over a two year period.

Small markets dont traditionally have both a NHL and NFL team. It's difficult to support both with the NHL being a native sport from Canada and NFL not transferring over the boarder. Yet people still wanna debate.

[Cosmic]

What's this guy got against Milwaukee?

Apparently, it's impossible for a city to like a football team and a hockey team at the same time.

Small market teams? Yes. Give me one example where a professional football team and hockey team have been successful in a small market. Yeah, thought so.

Buffalo seems to have made it work.

C... c... c'mon man! That was my thing! You stole my thunder!

Being successful on the field doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being a stable franchise. In fact, if you can keep the fanbase involved even when the team is in the dumps, it says even more about the strength of the franchise/fanbase/city.

The only group looking to move the Bills to Toronto has basically fallen apart; Bon Jovi is reportedly looking for another group to latch on to. Groups from LA reportedly stayed out of the bidding, because it would have been too hard to move the team. They're going to get either a new stadium or a super renovation (like Arrowhead or Lambeau), it's only a matter of time.

The Sabres were good from the early to mid 90s to the middle of the 2000s with only a couple of stinker seasons. Then, there was some mediocrity as they tried to cling to their remaining core from the good years. Now, they're rebuilding. In 2015, they'll start moving up the standings again. And after finishing 14 points behind 29th place, the Sabres had almost 10,000 show up to their rookie minicamp scrimmage. So things look OK there.

The Sabres have a solid young core and I can't wait to see how they grow, I'm not wishing anything against small market teams but DON'T tell me that small market teams - especially in an NHL and NFL market can occur - not that I wanted this to be a subject or discussion but since "they" brought it up, no one has confirmed anything besides myself with Tampa and that was over a two year period.

Small markets dont traditionally have both a NHL and NFL team. It's difficult to support both with the NHL being a native sport from Canada and NFL not transferring over the boarder. Yet people still wanna debate.

Whether the teams are good or not at the same time is basically luck of the draw. What matters is attendance, merchandise, sponsorships and ratings.

[worcat]

Which leads me back to my main debate. You dont think that Las Vegas won't fail a bit in attendance but excel in merchandise, sponsorship and ratings? Come on man... Def get more than Florida, Winnipeg, Tampa Bay etc

[ninersdd]

Winnipeg bleeds hockey. The majority of Las Vegas doesn't give a crap about the sport right now.

[worcat]

You can give Quebec their team back, you can give Winnipeg and Hartford their teams back, but it will never replace what could have been. Quebec should have stepped up and kept the Nords in town!

[Cosmic]

Which leads me back to my main debate. You dont think that Las Vegas won't fail a bit in attendance but excel in merchandise, sponsorship and ratings? Come on man... Def get more than Florida, Winnipeg, Tampa Bay etc

I think Vegas would be a lateral move from Florida or Phoenix. Maybe it would catch on. There are better places to put an NHL team, though. I'd roll the dice with Halifax before Vegas.

[worcat]

Which leads me back to my main debate. You dont think that Las Vegas won't fail a bit in attendance but excel in merchandise, sponsorship and ratings? Come on man... Def get more than Florida, Winnipeg, Tampa Bay etc

I think Vegas would be a lateral move from Florida or Phoenix. Maybe it would catch on. There are better places to put an NHL team, though. I'd roll the dice with Halifax before Vegas.

I like what you did there...roll the dice... ha.

I dunno, With the way the NHL and other major sports professions launching more toward fan experience at the stadium/arena, it's all about technology and entertainment. Vegas is where its at.

[Sodboy13]

Christ, this guy gives Blues fans a bad name.

[IceCap]

The NHL wants and needs to reach out for future larger markets. As technology grows, LV could be ground breaking for not only the NHL, but for all of the major sports brands.

This is the type of nonsensical thinking that got the NHL to the sad point it's at now. The mistakes that led to Phoenix getting a team shouldn't be repeated with Los Vegas.

Quebec should have stepped up and kept the Nords in town!

You do realize this was impossible, right? The Quebec government couldn't afford to keep hospitals open at the time, much less finance a stadium.

Which leads me back to my main debate. You dont think that Las Vegas won't fail a bit in attendance but excel in merchandise, sponsorship and ratings? Come on man... Def get more than Florida, Winnipeg, Tampa Bay etc

I garuntee you the Winnipeg Jets will be more financially stable and popular then a potential Los Vegas team.

[The_Admiral]

With the way the NHL and other major sports professions launching more toward fan experience at the stadium/arena, it's all about technology and entertainment. Vegas is where its at.

On the contrary, though it's still no replacement for the live experience, many teams are finally seeing strong television ratings with the advent of high-definition TV. Poor telecasts held hockey back for years. In addition to being able to see the puck with clarity, the timing of a hockey game (short breaks, long intermissions, you're in and out in 2.5 hrs) is looking more and more attractive vis-a-vis the interminable ad-fests that NFL games have become. As the World Cup ratings showed, casual sports fans are learning that it doesn't have to be the way the NFL is.

Also, I believe Winnipeg is in the top ten if not top five for overall viewership. Households, not share. That's impressive.

[IceCap]

I dunno, With the way the NHL and other major sports professions launching more toward fan experience at the stadium/arena, it's all about technology and entertainment. Vegas is where its at.

No, it's not. People go to a hockey game to go to a hockey game. Anything else you stick in the area, be it slot machines, poker tables, or a magic show, is just going to be an unwanted distraction for anyone that's there to see a game. If people are looking for those things they're not going to a hockey arena. They're going to a casino.

[SuperLeafsFan]

worcat, If you believe that Milwaukee cannot support a hockey team, what are your thoughts on The Maritimes (Halifax mainly), considering they'd be a small market according to you?

I dunno, With the way the NHL and other major sports professions launching more toward fan experience at the stadium/arena, it's all about technology and entertainment. Vegas is where its at.

No, it's not. People go to a hockey game to go to a hockey game. Anything else you stick in the area, be it slot machines, poker tables, or a magic show, is just going to be an unwanted distraction for anyone that's there to see a game. If people are looking for those things they're not going to a hockey arena. They're going to a casino.

Exactly. I feel a NHL team in Vegas would be wasted. Heck, the best thing about a team in Vegas would most likely be the dancers......

[Sanic]

worcat, If you believe that Milwaukee cannot support a hockey team, what are your thoughts on The Maritimes (Halifax mainly), considering they'd be a small market according to you?

I dunno, With the way the NHL and other major sports professions launching more toward fan experience at the stadium/arena, it's all about technology and entertainment. Vegas is where its at.

No, it's not. People go to a hockey game to go to a hockey game. Anything else you stick in the area, be it slot machines, poker tables, or a magic show, is just going to be an unwanted distraction for anyone that's there to see a game. If people are looking for those things they're not going to a hockey arena. They're going to a casino.

Exactly. I feel a NHL team in Vegas would be wasted. Heck, the best thing about a team in Vegas would most likely be the dancers......

That's the only reason that people would wanna go there, the dancers are more anticipated than a hockey team in a place like Vegas

[The_Admiral]

I love the idea of a Halifax team, but you encounter the same perils in the Maritimes as you do in Southern Ontario, only larger: you're relying on cobbling together a bunch of outlying cities and threatening to squeeze out major-junior teams, but the Maritimes have fewer people over more area, and the major-junior teams are in smaller cities that couldn't shoulder the competition the way Kitchener, Guelph, and London (if we're counting London) could. Also, their arena as it stands is about 5,000 seats short of what an NHL arena should have. If only Halifax were just a little bigger. It seems like such a cool, picturesque city, and you've gotta believe the natives would really rally behind a team of their own.

With Milwaukee, it's not four teams in the market that I'm concerned about. If any small market could handle that load, it's Milwaukee. Wisconsin loves sports: sometimes playing them, but always watching them. The whole state's a playground for winter sports: snowmobiling, ice fishing, skiing, and so pond hockey should slot right in. My concern is that hockey seems to have a big presence in most of the state, but not Milwaukee and Southeastern Wisconsin, where a team would play. College hockey is big in Madison, and high school/college are both strong to the north as an extension of Minnesota hockey culture. But it's the inner-ring suburbs, Waukesha County, and Racine County that really hit the sweet spot for NHL demographics, and I don't think hockey has made the cultural inroads there that it needs to make -- and really should be making with the disposable income available, the love for sports, and the ridiculous abundance of frozen bodies of water to skate on. There are quite a few Wisconsinites in the NHL, but I don't think many or any of them are from greater Milwaukee. Suter and Kessel are Madison kids, Pavelski is from Stevens Point, Drewiske is from the Wisconsin side of the Twin Cities sprawl, Adam Burish and Jack Skille are from Madison as well but they suck and I'm just mentioning them to fluff out the list. So there's no doubt that Wisconsin is hockey territory, just not where it absolutely needs to be. Given time, I'm confident that the population would rally around the game, but it's a shame that it would take any time to begin with when there should have been much better stewardship for years.

[illwauk]

I still stand against the idea of Milwaukee getting a hockey team ever. The Packers are the only franchise the state takes seriously, almost religiously - and I don't blame them, the Packers are great. The Brewers are perennial middle pack in the central and the Bucks are just....hopefully moving to Seattle.

No one takes the Brewers and UW football seriously? Yeah, okay....

You're clearly trolling at this point. And you still haven't shown me any proof that Indianapolis, a town that couldn't even keep a junior team together... after they won their league's championship, no less... is somehow more worthy of an NHL team than Milwaukee. Then again, expecting logic and reason from someone who keeps insisting that a team in Las Glendale would be anything but a terrible idea is probably a lost cause.

[illwauk]

With Milwaukee, it's not four teams in the market that I'm concerned about. If any small market could handle that load, it's Milwaukee. Wisconsin loves sports: sometimes playing them, but always watching them. The whole state's a playground for winter sports: snowmobiling, ice fishing, skiing, and so pond hockey should slot right in. My concern is that hockey seems to have a big presence in most of the state, but not Milwaukee and Southeastern Wisconsin, where a team would play. College hockey is big in Madison, and high school/college are both strong to the north as an extension of Minnesota hockey culture. But it's the inner-ring suburbs, Waukesha County, and Racine County that really hit the sweet spot for NHL demographics, and I don't think hockey has made the cultural inroads there that it needs to make -- and really should be making with the disposable income available, the love for sports, and the ridiculous abundance of frozen bodies of water to skate on. There are quite a few Wisconsinites in the NHL, but I don't think many or any of them are from greater Milwaukee. Suter and Kessel are Madison kids, Pavelski is from Stevens Point, Drewiske is from the Wisconsin side of the Twin Cities sprawl, Adam Burish and Jack Skille are from Madison as well but they suck and I'm just mentioning them to fluff out the list. So there's no doubt that Wisconsin is hockey territory, just not where it absolutely needs to be. Given time, I'm confident that the population would rally around the game, but it's a shame that it would take any time to begin with when there should have been much better stewardship for years.

I agree with most of this, but Milwaukee/SE Wisconsin definitely has its share of influence on the state's hockey culture. Maybe not to the degree Madison does, but Joel Rechlicz is from Brookfield, and Alex Galechenyuk was born here while his dad played for the Admirals.

At the high school level, hockey isn't quite as Madison-centric as it used to be. In fact, it's been since 2000(!) since a Madison school even played in the state final. Prep hockey has definitely grown on the North Shore over the past decade, which I'd argue is the biggest "demographic sweet spot" in SE Wisconsin. University School is probably the strongest program in the state right now, and Marquette and Arrowhead are up there too.

I also think people really overlook the fact that the Admirals have been around for over 40 years... that's ancient in the world of minor league hockey. For the sake of perspective, only two or three minor league hockey teams have been around longer (Hershey, Rochester, and Fort Wayne... depending on how you score their 1990s reboot). The Ads even used to sell out the Bradley Center on a somewhat regular basis in the IHL's heyday, and crowds of 10,000 were actually the norm for awhile.

I say that to say, the backing is here if and when the NHL decides to get its head out of its collective arse and do what they should've done 20 years ago.

[The_Admiral]

I don't know who Joel Rechlisz is, but I hope he's a safer driver than his name implies. And yeah, Galchenyuk was born in Milwaukee, but he lived all over the world and didn't really develop as a player in Wisconsin.

And yeah whoops, sorry for leaving out Milwaukee's North Shore. Anything north of like Whitefish Bay is a strange and foreign land to me. But it's good to hear that high school hockey is starting to develop in the Milwaukee area. And maybe the Ads would have better attendance if they could be something more than the future slugs and plugs of the execrable Perds.

[Sanic]

Worcat's Vegas piggybacking is the best logic I have ever seen.

[dbadefense1990]

You can give Quebec their team back, you can give Winnipeg and Hartford their teams back, but it will never replace what could have been. Quebec should have stepped up and kept the Nords in town!

Canadian politicians aren't as stupid, bribed and greedy as American politicians. If the Nordiques were playing in America, then the owner would have been successful in fleecing taxpayer-subsidies for a spanky-new arena, with no guarantee of an improved team performance. But Canadian politicians simply don't bend over and take a chode up the rear the way American politicians do from Wal-Mart, the tech and oil companies and the Kock Brothers.

Governments there simply don't comply to the demands of big, billionaire sports owners the way politicians here do. Given the situation it was in, the best the Nordiques could have done was to leave financially-bleeding Canada to a city ready to embrace hockey with open arms. And let's face it; Denver has been a helluva better alternative for the Nordiques than Phoenix has been for the Jets 1.0.

[Sodboy13]

Rob Ford.