tigerslionspistonshabs

Alternate SPORTS! History Thread

Recommended Posts

What if there was no USFL?

If there wouldn't have been, there is a good chance that the NFL would have expanded again, and Phoenix's team today would be the Firebirds, not the Cardinals.

I don't think the USFL's existence had any role in NFL ownership or expansion timetables save two: first, it ensured that Donald Trump would never get ownership of a team while he could still afford one, and second it delayed Stephen Ross' acquisition of an NFL franchise (long-forgotten in the history of the USFL is that Ross was the majority owner of the Baltimore Stars in 1986, having bought the franchise from Myles Tanenbaum).

What if the Clippers had moved to Anaheim for good starting in the '96-97 season, as it almost happened if Donald Sterling hadn't changed his mind at the last minute?

Donald Sterling divorces Shelly soon thereafter, marries porn star Vanessa Blue, and has 6 kids: Roshanda, Uniqua, Umfufu, Eboni, Armani, and Ralph.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mine include

  • General
    • What if public funding of stadiums was simply not done anywhere.
  • MLB
    • What if the original "batting average" statistic would have included walks (essentially making it OBP)? Walks, at the time, were thought to be entirely the fault of the pitcher. How would that have impacted pre-SABR evaluation?
    • What if the Federal League would have made it?
    • What if the 1994 strike would not have happened (particularly the impact on the Expos)? I am sure this has been asked already.
    • What if the 2002 All Star Game would not have ended in a tie (I think we know that one)
  • NBA
    • What if some commissioner (early Stern?), way back whenever, would have said "we are not going to give star players preferential treatment" and it actually remained practice to just make calls based on merit?
    • What if someone with no "boxing" ties bought the T-wolves in the mid-1990s with intent of moving them to New Orleans instead of Bob Arum? (Easy: they move and Minnesota never sees the NBA again).
    • What if the 3-point shot is never implemented?
  • NFL
    • What if one of several other teams that had a shot at Aaron Rodgers would have drafted him?
  • NHL
    • What if Norm Green is not accused of sexual harassment (do the North Stars stay? If so, do they win the cup in 1999? No and No is my guess).
    • What if Mario Lemieux or Sidney Crosby end up somehow drafted by the Rangers? Does this help league exposure at all?
  • College
    • What if the South would have won the Civil War.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in 1950, seven schools(Boston College, The Citadel, Maryland, Villanova, Virginia, VMI and Virginia Tech) were found to be in severe violation of the Sanity Code. They were allowed to remain in the organization because the vote to expel them fell short of the ⅔ majority nedded to do so. So, what if the reqiurement for expulsion from the NCAA back then was a simple majority vote of the membership?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mine include

  • General
    • What if public funding of stadiums was simply not done anywhere.
  • MLB
    • What if the original "batting average" statistic would have included walks (essentially making it OBP)? Walks, at the time, were thought to be entirely the fault of the pitcher. How would that have impacted pre-SABR evaluation?
    • What if the Federal League would have made it?
    • What if the 1994 strike would not have happened (particularly the impact on the Expos)? I am sure this has been asked already.
    • What if the 2002 All Star Game would not have ended in a tie (I think we know that one)
  • NBA
    • What if some commissioner (early Stern?), way back whenever, would have said "we are not going to give star players preferential treatment" and it actually remained practice to just make calls based on merit?
    • What if someone with no "boxing" ties bought the T-wolves in the mid-1990s with intent of moving them to New Orleans instead of Bob Arum? (Easy: they move and Minnesota never sees the NBA again).
    • What if the 3-point shot is never implemented?
  • NFL
    • What if one of several other teams that had a shot at Aaron Rodgers would have drafted him?
  • NHL
    • What if Norm Green is not accused of sexual harassment (do the North Stars stay? If so, do they win the cup in 1999? No and No is my guess).
    • What if Mario Lemieux or Sidney Crosby end up somehow drafted by the Rangers? Does this help league exposure at all?
  • College
    • What if the South won the Civil War?

e31.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if the South would have won the Civil War.

Donald Sterling divorces Shelly soon thereafter, marries porn star Vanessa Blue Sojourner Truth, and has 6 kids: Roshanda, Uniqua, Umfufu, Eboni, Armani, and Ralph.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if the South would have won the Civil War.

Donald Sterling divorces Shelly soon thereafter, marries porn star Vanessa Blue Sojourner Truth, and has 6 kids: Roshanda, Uniqua, Umfufu, Eboni, Armani, and Ralph.

POTD?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got some:

1. The Lakers went 0-8 in NBA Finals series against the Boston Celtics prior to 1985. How would history judge the rivalry if it were the Lakers on top, or if the matchup was at even count? How would history judge Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Wilt Chamberlain differently, if the Lakers-Celtics Finals matchups weren't so one-sided to start with?

2. How would history be, concerning Michael Jordan? What if Portland didn't f#ck up and pick Sam Bowie the Bulls didn't get Jordan? What if Jordan didn't retire the 1st time because his father was murdered as a consequence of Jordan's gambling addiction he wasn't inspired to play anymore? What if he didn't play for the Wizards?

3. What if Hurricane Katrina never formed? New Orleans would have been left in tact, thus, Oklahoma City would have never been given the NBA spotlight in the mid-2000s, and therefore, the Sonics might have been saved from relocation (or at least, the relocation talks would have been harder than they actually went).

4. What if the Lakers never have any internal rifts? What if Chamberlain didn't fight with Butch Van Breda Kolff? What if the Laker players never had a rift with Pat Riley in 1990 which ended the "Showtime" era? What if Nick Van Exel didn't butt heads with Del Harris in 1998? What if Kobe, Shaq and Phil Jackson got along and avoided their 2004 split?

5. What if the San Francisco Giants did relocate to Tampa Bay in 1992?

6. What if the Wildcard system never came to fruition in MLB? The Marlins would have never made the postseason won the World Series, and thus, the Cubs and Indians would have won championships within the last 20 years.

7. What if NBC and ABC didn't lose MLB broadcasting rights to CBS in 1989? Do they ever bid on NBA rights if that happened (NBA on NBC would have never come to fruition)? Speaking of which, what would have happened if FOX Sports didn't grab the NFC rights away from CBS in 1993? Would they be as big and powerful as they are now?

8. What if the McCourts never got involved with the Dodgers? What if they did become the owners of the Red Sox? Would what did happened in Los Angeles actually happen in Boston? Would the Red Sox still haven't won the World Series since 1918?

9. The entire 1986 MLB postseason. What if Mike Scott pitches Game 7 of the NLCS? What if Dave Henderson doesn't connect with Donnie Moore's ball in Game 5 of the ALCS? What if Buckner doesn't allow the grounder between his legs the Red Sox don't implode in the bottom-10th of Game 6 of the World Series?

10. What if Dwight Clark doesn't score on "The Catch?" What if Elway doesn't complete "The Drive?" What if the Packers don't win the "Ice Bowl?" What if the 1st Super Bowl flopped as a football world championship game? What if Scott Norwood makes that field goal? What if David Tyree doesn't use his helmet? What if Santonio Holmes doesn't keep his toes in bound?

11. What if the Los Angeles Rams didn't swap ownerships in the early-1970s with the Baltimore Colts? What if Carroll Rosenbloom didn't die in a drowning accident; would the Rams continue to be in L.A. because Georgia Frontierre never comes to power?

12. What if the 1992 NHL strike never occurred? Would John Ziegler have remained in power, thus, saving the NHL from Gary Bettman, the Coyotes, Panthers and three lockouts?

13. What if Gretzky didn't pick the Kings in 1988? What if he heads to the Red Wings (he was a big Howe fan) or Maple Leafs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got some:

1. The Lakers went 0-8 in NBA Finals series against the Boston Celtics prior to 1985. How would history judge the rivalry if it were the Lakers on top, or if the matchup was at even count? How would history judge Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Wilt Chamberlain differently, if the Lakers-Celtics Finals matchups weren't so one-sided to start with?

3. What if Hurricane Katrina never formed? New Orleans would have been left in tact, thus, Oklahoma City would have never been given the NBA spotlight in the mid-2000s, and therefore, the Sonics might have been saved from relocation (or at least, the relocation talks would have been harder than they actually went).

5. What if the San Francisco Giants did relocate to Tampa Bay in 1992?

7. What if NBC and ABC didn't lose MLB broadcasting rights to CBS in 1989? Do they ever bid on NBA rights if that happened (NBA on NBC would have never come to fruition)? Speaking of which, what would have happened if FOX Sports didn't grab the NFC rights away from CBS in 1993? Would they be as big and powerful as they are now?

11. What if the Los Angeles Rams didn't swap ownerships in the early-1970s with the Baltimore Colts? What if Carroll Rosenbloom didn't die in a drowning accident; would the Rams continue to be in L.A. because Georgia Frontierre never comes to power?

1. I think the Celtics-Lakers rivarly would still be as strong if the number of championship matchups were more even. West and Baylor would have at least three rings each, Chamberlain adds at least one or two more to his resume. Probably a bigger "what-if" is what if Wilt would have beaten Russell and the Celtics more often in the playoffs/Finals...how many championships would he have?

3. The Hornets, pre-Katrina, were a bit on a shaky ground in New Orleans (low attendance, lack of corporate support, mediocre on-court play). If you think about it, as tragic and horrific that Katrina was, it was a blessing in disguise for New Orleans sports--the Superdome doesn't get renovated (as the Saints were looking at getting a brand new stadium built at that time, or possibly moving to another city), and there would probably be greater instability with the NBA in New Orleans. As far as the Sonics staying in Seattle, part of the problem, I believe, was that when KeyArena was rebuilt (in which the NBA had a hand in its design), it wasn't built with the NHL specs in mind, and perhaps with that extra revenue that a Seattle NHL team would have brought (and with a possible larger seating capacity), the Sonics would have still been in Seattle today.

5. A Tampa Bay Giants team probably doesn't get a crack at signing Barry Bonds, and Bonds ends up as a Dodger (and there were stories that Tommy Lasorda was recruiting Bonds hard to join the Dodgers). Just imagine a lineup of Karros-Piazza-Bonds (and later Raul Mondesi)...perhaps they contend for at least for the National League title at that time. And just like the present-day Rays are longing for a new stadium, the Giants would have been looking to get out of Tropicana Field as well.

7. With the second half of your question, Fox getting the NFC package that CBS had set-off a domino effect that changed the television landscape that we hadn't seen perhaps since the late '70s, when a number of longtime NBC affiliates (in places like San Diego, Minneapolis, Jacksonville, Atlanta, and Indianapolis) deciding to disaffiliate from the Peacock and go with ABC. Fox was able to up upgrade their affiliate base through the NFL acquistion, with a number of longtime CBS affiliates (Dallas, Atlanta, Phoenix, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Tampa, Austin), plus key ABC (Birmingham, New Orleans, and St. Louis) and NBC (Kansas City and Green Bay) stations joining Fox. CBS recovered in a few markets in the years since, but for awhile until they got the NFL back, they struggled in the ratings. If Fox didn't get the NFL in '94, they probably still have went after the NHL and MLB, and perhaps have got a shot at acquiring NBC's AFC package in 1998 (which would probably have set-off a chain of station affiliation swaps).

11. If Robert Irsay would have held on to the Rams, I think he still would have bolted the L.A. Coliseum for another new stadium (perhaps going to Anaheim anyway). Son Jim takes over the franchise, and they're probably still in Southern California to this day (most likely in a new-ish stadium somewhere in L.A. County proper), and the Colts probably relocate from Baltimore anyway under Georgia Frontiere. Another scenario--she probably does the franchise swap with Bill Bidwill, and ends up with the St. Louis (football) Cardinals; meanwhile, Bidwill most likely makes it a go in the Charm City (and gets his precious new stadium), and Phoenix (and maybe Indianapolis as well) eventually gets an expansion team.

Edited by MadmanLA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what if Ted Williams doesn't fight in WWII or Korea Do the Red Sox win a World Series during this time. what if Mickey Mantle didn't hurt his leg (?) or didn't drink as much. would he had been better (and pass Babe Ruth). also what if steroids were not used by many players in baseball (or if it was, baseball didn't start care until a later date).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what if Ted Williams doesn't fight in WWII or Korea Do the Red Sox win a World Series during this time. what if Mickey Mantle didn't hurt his leg (?) or didn't drink as much. would he had been better (and pass Babe Ruth). also what if steroids were not used by many players in baseball (or if it was, baseball didn't start care until a later date).

I think the greater question is what do Williams' career stats look like in this scenario?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13. What if Gretzky didn't pick the Kings in 1988? What if he heads to the Red Wings (he was a big Howe fan) or Maple Leafs?

I think we see Steve Yzerman in an Oilers uniform for at least a few years, as he would definitely be the centerpiece of the deal. As a result, I don't think we see the Red Wings dynasty come to form in the late 90s, there's no rivalry with the Avalanche (or at least, one that's as physical as it was), and #19 doesn't hang from the rafters of Joe Louis Arena. I also believe that while Gretzky as a Wing would create some initial excitement in Detroit, the trade would leave a sour taste in the mouth of Red Wings fans. Stevie Y was beloved in Detroit, even during a losing era in Detroit. I think Yzerman does still become the great leader he was meant to be, but this time he has Mark Messier along with him instead of Scotty Bowman. As a result, I don't think Messier leaves for New York, and the Rangers don't win the cup in 1994. Of course, I don't think the Sharks, Panthers, or Coyotes come into existence, as there is little or no interest in those markets. The Mighty Ducks movies may be still filmed and enjoyed by a young hockey fan-base, but the NHL Mighty Ducks play some where other than Anaheim (perhaps Minnesota, after the North Stars move). Winnipeg still moves, but to somewhere else. I think Quebec still moves to Colorado. I'm not sure what the fate of the Whalers would be in Hartford. The NHL doesn't have anywhere near the level of popularity it does today. On a side note, I'm not sure if I'm born, or at least the sports fanatic I am today, as my parents became Red Wings fans in the late 80s and early 90s during the building of Detroit's Cup-winning era. (Sorry for the long post, but this trade had some big consequences)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13. What if Gretzky didn't pick the Kings in 1988? What if he heads to the Red Wings (he was a big Howe fan) or Maple Leafs?

I think we see Steve Yzerman in an Oilers uniform for at least a few years, as he would definitely be the centerpiece of the deal. As a result, I don't think we see the Red Wings dynasty come to form in the late 90s, there's no rivalry with the Avalanche (or at least, one that's as physical as it was), and #19 doesn't hang from the rafters of Joe Louis Arena. I also believe that while Gretzky as a Wing would create some initial excitement in Detroit, the trade would leave a sour taste in the mouth of Red Wings fans. Stevie Y was beloved in Detroit, even during a losing era in Detroit. I think Yzerman does still become the great leader he was meant to be, but this time he has Mark Messier along with him instead of Scotty Bowman. As a result, I don't think Messier leaves for New York, and the Rangers don't win the cup in 1994. Of course, I don't think the Sharks, Panthers, or Coyotes come into existence, as there is little or no interest in those markets. The Mighty Ducks movies may be still filmed and enjoyed by a young hockey fan-base, but the NHL Mighty Ducks play some where other than Anaheim (perhaps Minnesota, after the North Stars move). Winnipeg still moves, but to somewhere else. I think Quebec still moves to Colorado. I'm not sure what the fate of the Whalers would be in Hartford. The NHL doesn't have anywhere near the level of popularity it does today. On a side note, I'm not sure if I'm born, or at least the sports fanatic I am today, as my parents became Red Wings fans in the late 80s and early 90s during the building of Detroit's Cup-winning era. (Sorry for the long post, but this trade had some big consequences)

Stevie Y was loved, but wasn't really at absolutely-over-the-moon-beloved status at that point. Yes he was starting to explode offensively, but his ridiculous 155 point season came in 1988-89. I think the majority of Wings fans would jump all over the opportunity to get Gretzky. I would also seeing the Wings giving up draft picks- which means Fedorov doesn't come to Detroit, among other role players vital to their late 90s juggernaut.

Messier definitely stays, as the Oilers remain good for another decade at least. I see the Penguins still winning their cups, but the Oilers win it in place of Montreal and New York. Detroit with Gretzky might win one earlier, say 1995. Colorado still wins in 96, Oilers win again in place of the Wings in 1997 and 1998, probably even 1999 and 2000.

It does have huge effects on the NHL landscape as you pointed out. Far less interest in the sunbelt. I don't see either Florida team, Phoenix, San Jose, Anaheim (the need for a second team in LA was 95% Gretzky). I think the Whalers were doomed regardless. I still see the Stars going to Dallas.

Also, the Oilers were very close to joining the Jets and Nordiques during the NHL Canadian exodus. In a completely different alternate universe, if Gretzky never played there at all, I think they'd be goners for sure.

Another one is the Eric Lindros deal. If he hadn't refused to play for Quebec, the Avalanche dynasty wouldn't exist. He gave them 2 cups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What if the Los Angeles Rams didn't swap ownerships in the early-1970s with the Baltimore Colts? What if Carroll Rosenbloom didn't die in a drowning accident; would the Rams continue to be in L.A. because Georgia Frontierre never comes to power?

I have another one: What if Carroll's son was allowed to keep the Colts as a gift after he took over the Rams from Dan Reeves? He would have the same problems, but is he the same a-hole drunk that Irsay was? And does he have the same smarts to get the Colts out of town (if they are still there that long) if they are seized by eminent domain?

Also, I have an NBA one: What if Maurice Stokes never has his head injury?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Stokes

Eventually, the Royals got players like Oscar Robertson and Jerry Lucas. With Stokes, that team may have won a title or two in the 60's, and that may have increased interest in the team enough in Cincy that there is less chance of them leaving by 1972.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what if Ted Williams doesn't fight in WWII or Korea Do the Red Sox win a World Series during this time. what if Mickey Mantle didn't hurt his leg (?) or didn't drink as much. would he had been better (and pass Babe Ruth). also what if steroids were not used by many players in baseball (or if it was, baseball didn't start care until a later date).

I think the greater question is what do Williams' career stats look like in this scenario?

He'd be frequently discussed as the greatest player ever. His numbers are already outstanding while missing key "prime" time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a few of my own.

  1. What if Michael Bush didn't get injured and Louisville football didn't lose to Rutgers in 2006?
  2. What if Louisville didn't meet Kentucky in the 1983 Elite 8?
  3. What if the 2008 World Series didn't rain out?
  4. What if Tropicana Field was built in Tampa rather than St. Petersburg?
  5. What if the dunk was still banned after 1976 in College Basketball?
  6. What if Landon Donovan didn't kick in the goal in the 2010 World Cup?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a few of my own.

  1. What if Tropicana Field was built in Tampa rather than St. Petersburg?

Can't answer the rest, but I think the Rays would be slightly better supported overall due to location alone, but they'd still be having attendance issues relative to the rest of the league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NASCAR:

- What if Dale Sr/Alan Kulwicki never died? Would they have won more championships? Or, if Kulwicki hadn't died, would Sr. have less titles than the seven he won?

- Piggybacking off of that, what about Adam Petty, son of Kyle Petty and grandson of Richard? Would he have been a "Jimmie Johnson" or like his dad, living off the family name?

- What if Brian France had never even thought of the Chase for the 2004 season? Would there still be a Chase later down the road, or would we still have the normal 36-race shootout rather than the 26-10 or 26-3-3-3-1 Chase Formats?

NFL

- What if the Patriots won both Super Bowls against the Giants?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

than the bills would be screwed by momentum.

well that would still happen...

it would stay the same

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if Buckner scooped up that ground ball?

That's an easy one: If he made it to the bag in time, the game goes into extra innings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.