Before the Seahawks & Buccaneers

[The_Admiral]

People complain that my threads go too far afield and this guy lost his own plot halfway through the first post!

[Jungle Jim]

Does that actually happen?

That turtle looks like a guitar.

[leopard88]

One thing on the original post jumped out at me and that's a reminder of how awesome the below helmet was.

Absolutely. The new wings look so cartoony. I think the rest of the uniform is nearly perfect, but those wings... yeah.

Maybe if the inside was just silver and no white. Or maybe silver with white outline and just drop the black (it's in the facemask so the helmet would still work with the uniform.) Or just silver and black. Just make the inside of the wing a solid color.

Of course... I still advocate a silver helmet with green/black wing. Pair that with silver pants and I might have to masturbate right in the middle of the lower seating bowl the first time seeing it live.

"Cartoony" is a perfect description of it.

I remember as a youth Monday Night Football really seemed larger than life. Then again, when one is 5 or 6 years old, heck even 10 years old, many things seemed larger than life to me. It felt like such an event back then, when ABC still had it. Now it feels like "just another football game" with ESPN doing it.

Monday Night Football was an "event" back in the 70's and early 80's. It was "larger than life." Especially in the heyday of Frank Gifford, Don Meredith, and Howard Cosell. It was arguably the most popular show on television. Gifford, Cosell, and Meredith were practically rock stars. Hosting a MNF game back then was a major event for the team and host city. It was really something.

It amazes me that so many people fail to grasp that the NFL wants Sunday Night Football to be its showcase game now. Relatively speaking, MNF is more or less "just another football game" now . . . because the NFL has downgraded it relative to Sunday Night Football.

[Gothamite]

Indeed.

ESPN got the actual MNF game, but NBC got everything that once represented.

[leopard88]

Indeed.

ESPN got the actual MNF game, but NBC got everything that once represented.

Exactly!

[guest23]

One thing on the original post jumped out at me and that's a reminder of how awesome the below helmet was.

Absolutely. The new wings look so cartoony. I think the rest of the uniform is nearly perfect, but those wings... yeah.

Maybe if the inside was just silver and no white. Or maybe silver with white outline and just drop the black (it's in the facemask so the helmet would still work with the uniform.) Or just silver and black. Just make the inside of the wing a solid color.

Of course... I still advocate a silver helmet with green/black wing. Pair that with silver pants and I might have to masturbate right in the middle of the lower seating bowl the first time seeing it live.

"Cartoony" is a perfect description of it.

I remember as a youth Monday Night Football really seemed larger than life. Then again, when one is 5 or 6 years old, heck even 10 years old, many things seemed larger than life to me. It felt like such an event back then, when ABC still had it. Now it feels like "just another football game" with ESPN doing it.

Monday Night Football was an "event" back in the 70's and early 80's. It was "larger than life." Especially in the heyday of Frank Gifford, Don Meredith, and Howard Cosell. It was arguably the most popular show on television. Gifford, Cosell, and Meredith were practically rock stars. Hosting a MNF game back then was a major event for the team and host city. It was really something.

It amazes me that so many people fail to grasp that the NFL wants Sunday Night Football to be its showcase game now. Relatively speaking, MNF is more or less "just another football game" now . . . because the NFL has downgraded it relative to Sunday Night Football.

The league saw the changing viewership trends and they really had no choice in the matter as disney and the other networks basically said that the monday game was no longer viable on broadcast tv which by default meant espn at the time. Obviously the league then doubled down on the sunday game (basically promising top tie match ups to keep the interest high) and nbc was desperate to get back into the nfl business so they were willing to bid a premium and promote the hell out of the game. It appears that the strategy worked.

[oldschoolvikings]

Yeah, but I'd argue that the Sunday night game isn't, and can never be, the kind of showcase that the old ABC MNF was. By Sunday night you've watched games all day, including, most likely, your own personal favorite team. By the time the late game rolls around even die hard football fans might be getting a little burned out. Plus, if you've got a family or, you know, a life, you don't want to spend 10 hours straight watching football. I think NBC made a mistake moving that game to Sunday. Personally, I generally only catch the last half hour of it, after the rest of the house has gone to bed.

[BrianLion]

Unfortunately for NBC, Sunday Night has also become THE night for big marquee shows for the Cable nets, so it's regularly going up against the likes of The Walking Dead, Mad Men, Homeland, Game of Thrones, etc. and losing out in the ratings.

Although I personally will always watch the game live on the tv shows on On Demand. I cant watch non-live sporting events.

[guest23]

Yeah, but I'd argue that the Sunday night game isn't, and can never be, the kind of showcase that the old ABC MNF was. By Sunday night you've watched games all day, including, most likely, your own personal favorite team. By the time the late game rolls around even die hard football fans might be getting a little burned out. Plus, if you've got a family or, you know, a life, you don't want to spend 10 hours straight watching football. I think NBC made a mistake moving that game to Sunday. Personally, I generally only catch the last half hour of it, after the rest of the house has gone to bed.

Yeah you're talking about completely different eras. There's no way you can recreate the MNF mystique because that environment no longer exists. As far as moving the game to sunday, abc basically made public that broadcasting on the main network was no economic sense so why on earth would nbc choose to leave it there an potentially lose money on the deal?

I agree that cable sunday night viewing is a significant competitor but many of those shows have a significant share of audience that watches via dvr or other digital delivery which gives viewers of those particular shows flexibility to watch both. Like it or not live sports is one of the last outlets for traditional advertisers to reach a captive audience. SNF is the best vehicle for those advertisers to spend their money. Lastly just because you don't have as much time to dedicate to watching SNF as you like does not mean that nbc and its sponsors are still not taking the lion's share of their target demo.

[leopard88]

Yeah, but I'd argue that the Sunday night game isn't, and can never be, the kind of showcase that the old ABC MNF was. By Sunday night you've watched games all day, including, most likely, your own personal favorite team. By the time the late game rolls around even die hard football fans might be getting a little burned out. Plus, if you've got a family or, you know, a life, you don't want to spend 10 hours straight watching football. I think NBC made a mistake moving that game to Sunday. Personally, I generally only catch the last half hour of it, after the rest of the house has gone to bed.

Yeah you're talking about completely different eras. There's no way you can recreate the MNF mystique because that environment no longer exists.

Well stated. In the MNF heyday, there was no Sunday night game, no ESPN and no RedZone. Your Sunday football viewing was 2 games -- at the most -- and a few highlights on the local news. MNF was the only chance to see a marquee national game most of the time . . . and had the added benefit of people tuning in because they loved (or hated - no indifference allowed) Howard Cosell.

As for current Sunday habits, I usually watch the Ravens, a bit of RedZone in the other time slot and a decent amount of SNF, depending on the matchup. My son is 13, which is a little older than I was during the MNF heyday (if we say it peaked in the late 70s). He would easily watch 10 hours of football on Sunday if we let him. As it is, he watches for a good chunk of the day if he gets his homework done (which is fortunately a rare problem). I am quite confident I would have been exactly the same way if I had the same options.

[kewp80]

Didn't think of that - you're probably right. I might have thought the shell enough to break it as it grew but apparently not.

It could also be a soft-shelled turtle.

[Jungle Jim]

Yeah, but I'd argue that the Sunday night game isn't, and can never be, the kind of showcase that the old ABC MNF was. By Sunday night you've watched games all day, including, most likely, your own personal favorite team. By the time the late game rolls around even die hard football fans might be getting a little burned out. Plus, if you've got a family or, you know, a life, you don't want to spend 10 hours straight watching football. I think NBC made a mistake moving that game to Sunday. Personally, I generally only catch the last half hour of it, after the rest of the house has gone to bed.

You just described me. I watch the Bengals if they're on at 1:00, keep the 4:00 game on as background noise while doing something else, then shun the Sunday night game until the family has gone to bed. Sunday nights are AMC nights (Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Walking Dead, etc.) and/or the night we catch up on stuff we didn't have time to watch during the week.

[guest23]

Yeah, but I'd argue that the Sunday night game isn't, and can never be, the kind of showcase that the old ABC MNF was. By Sunday night you've watched games all day, including, most likely, your own personal favorite team. By the time the late game rolls around even die hard football fans might be getting a little burned out. Plus, if you've got a family or, you know, a life, you don't want to spend 10 hours straight watching football. I think NBC made a mistake moving that game to Sunday. Personally, I generally only catch the last half hour of it, after the rest of the house has gone to bed.

You just described me. I watch the Bengals if they're on at 1:00, keep the 4:00 game on as background noise while doing something else, then shun the Sunday night game until the family has gone to bed. Sunday nights are AMC nights (Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Walking Dead, etc.) and/or the night we catch up on stuff we didn't have time to watch during the week.

I'm going to guess you are a male over 40. Based on market research advertisers see you as set in your ways (i.e. your brand preferences and purchase patterns are predetermined) or you are not the primary spender in the household (i.e. married/some other domestic situation). chances are if you don't have time/desire to watch primetime football, the sponsors don't have anything to sell you.

As far as watching scripted cable tv (which is the best product out there imo), the business model is completely different. The content creators get their money up front from the networks who in turn charge a per subscriber fee to the network which you the viewer ultimately pay for via your monthly cable fees. Since everybody gets their money up front, commercials on basic cable are simply supplemental revenue. Broadcast tv is completely different and is much more desperate to attract viewers with disposable income who can afford to sit and watch live tv which are typically males 18-40 and females 18-50.

Basically the league and NBC opted to chase the disposable income and casual fan as opposed to rewarding you for your consistent loyalty.

[Guest]

Wasn't there a story published that ESPN tried to lowball the NFL because they thought there was no competition, one of the NFL execs called a friend at NBC, and NBC decided on the spot to get back in with the NFL? Then the NFL guy basically went back into the room and flipped the bird to ESPN? If not, that's how it should have happened.

[guest23]

Wasn't there a story published that ESPN tried to lowball the NFL because they thought there was no competition, one of the NFL execs called a friend at NBC, and NBC decided on the spot to get back in with the NFL? Then the NFL guy basically went back into the room and flipped the bird to ESPN? If not, that's how it should have happened.

MNF was covered quite a bit both by the media trade and sports business press leading up to the new tv negotiations. It's distinctly possible that it was a negotiating tactic but disney/abc had been very open with the press indicating that the MNF product was in significant decline and was no longer desirable for broadcast tv. There were a bunch of ideas floated to kick some life into MNF with the big one being the flex schedule but ultimately all of the tweaks were applied to SNF. I don't think abc even wanted the SNF game and there's no way that the league would give espn two cable primetime slots. From what I remember Turner may have been in the mix as well but did not submit high $$$ bids.

[CubsFanBudMan]

ABC/ESPN wanted to preserve the "Monday Night Football" brand, even if it meant moving their existing Sunday night cable deal to Mondays.

All this talk of a "decline," but don't broadcast NFL games still dwarf the competition in TV ratings?

[BrianLion]

except for The Walking Dead apparently

http://deadline.com/2014/11/walking-dead-ratings-top-sunday-night-football-third-week-season-5-1201286783/

[guest23]

except for The Walking Dead apparently

http://deadline.com/2014/11/walking-dead-ratings-top-sunday-night-football-third-week-season-5-1201286783/

This has been a bad season for snf but overall sponsors will stick with it for another season or two before they jump ship. TV is highly fragmented and for some advertisers cable continues to be perceived as niche marketing. What will likely happen is that they will renegotiate their ad rates and nbc will also go back and put some pressure on the league to ensure they they are scheduling top tier matchups.

[Jungle Jim]

All this talk of a "decline," but don't broadcast NFL games still dwarf the competition in TV ratings?

It does, but the numbers are not nearly as big, because viewership is spread out over many channels. Before cable, there were only three commercial broadcast networks, and at its peak, MNF would draw a 40-45% share (percent of households that have a TV turned on) and a 25-27 rating (percent of households with a TV, whether turned on or not). Today, thanks to scores of cable channels and Internet content, MNF draws a rating in the range of 7-11.

It's not just MNF, though. The audience is so spread out that we'll probably never see the days of any showing being an "event" again. Even with the most popular shows and sporting events, a very small percentage of the 300 million people in this country care and even fewer actually watch.