Teams That Should Relocate/Relocation Destinations

[eibram]

I think the Clippers need to find a new home. They've just been doing so well in the past few years yet Lakers still get most of the press. In my opinion, they deserve a new home and a separate fan base. One thing that's annoyed me most is this whole, "we run LA" mentality. The Lakers will always be the first name to come up in basketball when talking about LA. It's just that there's been so much history associated with them already. All the names, the championships, the greatest moments, the broken records, everything they do will eventually be compared to the Lakers and I don't think that's fair to them.

On that note, I have no idea where they can possibly relocate.

[DS729]

I think the Clippers need to find a new home. They've just been doing so well in the past few years yet Lakers still get most of the press. In my opinion, they deserve a new home and a separate fan base. One thing that's annoyed me most is this whole, "we run LA" mentality. The Lakers will always be the first name to come up in basketball when talking about LA. It's just that there's been so much history associated with them already. All the names, the championships, the greatest moments, the broken records, everything they do will eventually be compared to the Lakers and I don't think that's fair to them.

On that note, I have no idea where they can possibly relocate.

That's the Clippers. They're in a niche market, and are pretty well-off compared to alot of teams. The Clippers will always be in the Lakers shadow, because they were there first, they have all the history and so forth. That's the price they pay. It's the same dilemma about putting a second hockey team in Toronto knowing they'll always be behind the Leafs. It's not a great market, it's not fun to be the backseat team even when you're clearly better. But the Clippers have a better spot than a lot of the teams we're talking about in this thread. And as BBTV said, they're really aren't that many slam-dunk markets out there, a lot teams are going to be a niche team in their market because there's nothing better. Which ties into your last point, there's nowhere to go. Seattle? I doubt it. And any other market has a really severe risk involved of failing miserably.

[IceCap]

I think the Clippers need to find a new home. They've just been doing so well in the past few years yet Lakers still get most of the press. In my opinion, they deserve a new home and a separate fan base. One thing that's annoyed me most is this whole, "we run LA" mentality. The Lakers will always be the first name to come up in basketball when talking about LA. It's just that there's been so much history associated with them already. All the names, the championships, the greatest moments, the broken records, everything they do will eventually be compared to the Lakers and I don't think that's fair to them.

On that note, I have no idea where they can possibly relocate.

The Clippers have a sweetheart deal that pays them handsomely simply for filling dates at the Staples Centre. There's no way they leave.

[monkeypower]

The Clippers aren't going to leave Staples soon. There was a vetoed deal that would have had the Clippers move to Anaheim in the late '90s.

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I've seen Montreal being thrown around in this thread for the Rays and I just don't think Montreal will be a viable option for a baseball team in the immediate future. No field, no plans for a field and last I had heard, no potential owners.

[CubsFanBudMan]

The more I think about it, the more I believe New York is the best market for any relocated MLB team.

We talk about L.A. and two football teams instead of just one. New York could easily find success with more than what they have.

Disappointed there aren't more obvious AAA locations ready to make the jump.

[pmoehrin]

I've seen Montreal being thrown around in this thread for the Rays and I just don't think Montreal will be a viable option for a baseball team in the immediate future. No field, no plans for a field and last I had heard, no potential owners.

I would like to see a team back in Montreal one day.

Again far from being the best market in baseball even at its peak. But I don't think Expos fans turned their back on the team so much as they turned their backs on the guy running the show.

As far as a stadium, maybe they could look into renovating Olympic Stadium somehow. That may or may not be feasible, but the place does have some history to it and for the amount of money it would cost to tear the thing down (at least $700 million by one estimate), you might as well try to get some use of it.

You would probably have to gut the entire interior and basically start from scratch almost, but what else are you going to do with it other then let it sit there and rot?

As far as NYC being able to support a third MLB team, I've read a couple of studies that pointed to Northern New Jersey being the most valuable market to move to. Any move though would have to be approved by both the Yankees and Mets, with the Phillies possibly even having some say as well. Just based on that I think your more likely to see the St. Louis Browns return then see a third NYC team.

It sucks to because logistically there's no reason it can't happen. It won't happen because its not in the best financial interest for at least 2 MLB teams for a team to be there.

[Gothamite]

Northern New Jersey seems very unlikely to me. You can pull NNJ in for a NYC team, but it doesn't run the other way. If the new baseball team isn't on the subway, you might as well put it in Hartford as Newark.

[Needschat]

The Florida Panthers, they need to relocate. Quebec City is the logical destination, but don't count out Hartford.

[pmoehrin]

Northern New Jersey seems very unlikely to me. You can pull NNJ in for a NYC team, but it doesn't run the other way. If the new baseball team isn't on the subway, you might as well put it in Hartford as Newark.

No you could not pull in fans from NYC for a NJ team.

But I look at a team like the New Jersey Devils and I think that's all the evidence you need to show that it can be done.

And unlike the Devils situation when they first came in, the sport is actually established.

Can go back and forth on it all day, but the bottom line is unless some really bullheaded owner comes in that is just flat out determined to get a team to Northern NJ, or the Wilpons or Steinbrenners get some wild hairs growing up their cracks, there is zero chance of another team coming to the NYC metro area.

[Mac the Knife]

What I will say is that there's no one looking at the Columbus Blue Jackets and saying "relocate them," "Columbus isn't a good hockey market," or whatever. Raleigh, however, because it's seen as part of Gary Bettman's "southern expansion" strategy, is viewed with a jaundiced eye - and despite that perception being refuted by the empirical evidence, there are still chuckleheads out there who when the topic arises will ignorantly claim, "Raleigh can go!"

This isn't entirely true. When the Blue Jackets were financially on the ropes a few years ago, there was plenty of talk about how the league could stand to sub out Columbus for a better market. Now that the Ohio government bailed them out and twinned their arena with Ohio State's near-identical arena down the street, they're not going anywhere, but Columbus is a perfect example of an NHL market that the league doesn't need but whatever you can get out of it is nice. Raleigh is the same way, Hartford would be the same way, but I'd give Columbus a higher ceiling than Raleigh, and Hartford a higher ceiling than both.

We've never gone beyond one of the three, but despite this the team draws well, no one disputes that it makes money

Are these true? The Hurricanes have had poor attendance in at least the last four years that I've had access to their telecasts. And given that there's nominally a dispute over whether the Chicago Blackhawks make money, I have trouble believing the Hurricanes are unarguably raking it in. In fact, Karmanos has been selling off pieces of the team recently and trying to sell even more (with the proviso that he doesn't give up any power, of course, because he's Peter Karmanos and he's a prick). Doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd do if you were satisfied with your cashflow.

I've gotten on board with your idea that Raleigh-Durham would be a very good spot for a big-league baseball team, but I don't believe in it as far as the NHL goes. It's neither a big city that "expands the footprint" nor is it a small but high-ceiling Hockey Town that strengthens the league in terms of undeniable passion for the game. It's thoroughly underwhelming and wouldn't be in the conversation but for the whims of Karmanos and his failure to move the Whalers to Auburn Hills.

Again, I'm not trying to be comparative, and we're in lock-step agreement that the market would've been much better suited for MLB than the NHL. Yes, the Hurricanes make money; portions of their financials require examination by local government here, and I think save the year immediately after winning the cup, they've made money every year since the team entered its current arena. Butts in the seats are okay but it's the corporate bigwig market that keeps the home fires burning. Why? I don't know. But it really doesn't matter much - for what they get every year in suites from the corporations, they could chop off the second-tier section of seats above it and probably not miss the revenue all that much.

According to something I read on RantSports, the Rays are likely relocating in the next couple seasons.

That got shot in the *** today. The Devil Rays aren't going anywhere until that lease of theirs expires.

The more I think about it, the more I believe New York is the best market for any relocated MLB team.

Disappointed there aren't more obvious AAA locations ready to make the jump.

Organized baseball is a weird animal. While every other major North American pro sports league will assign a franchise a 'radial territory' (a spot measuring 50, 75, or 100 miles in every direction from the center of the franchise's home city), baseball assigns territorial rights on an insanely far more detailed basis - often by county, and not necessarily taking into account the level of play involved. The Mets and Yankees essentially share their territory for example, but caveats exist for the Brooklyn Cyclones, Staten Island Yankees, and other teams operated within NYC's limits to operate.

Since moving here I've learned that the Raleigh market's ready to make the jump (you'd have to kill both the Durham Bulls and Carolina Mudcats to do it, but it'd work). That's true of some other markets as well - it could be done, but at the expense of two (or in some cases more) minor league franchises within what would be the territory of the MLB club.

[Gothamite]

But I look at a team like the New Jersey Devils and I think that's all the evidence you need to show that it can be done.

You are perhaps unaware that the New Jersey Devils have long struggled at the ticket gate? They've been no higher than 10th from the bottom in attendance going back a decade, usually lower than even that. They're a financial mess, and Forbes has them listed as the #21st most valuable team in the NHL. They're a cautionary tale, not an example to emulate.

If a Northern New Jersey team can't draw from NYC, then they might better be considered akin to Fort Wayne or Greensboro, North Carolina (cities of comparable population to Newark) than part of the NYC metro area.

[Gothamite]

While every other major North American pro sports league will assign a franchise a 'radial territory' (a spot measuring 50, 75, or 100 miles in every direction from the center of the franchise's home city), baseball assigns territorial rights on an insanely far more detailed basis - often by county, and not necessarily taking into account the level of play involved. The Mets and Yankees essentially share their territory for example, but caveats exist for the Brooklyn Cyclones, Staten Island Yankees, and other teams operated within NYC's limits to operate.

That's because the Mets and Yankees each own a team. The Brooklyn Cyclones would not have been allowed to exist if the Yankees weren't also granted one.

And there are no "other teams operated within NYC's limits".

[The_Admiral]

Butts in the seats are okay but it's the corporate bigwig market that keeps the home fires burning. Why? I don't know. But it really doesn't matter much - for what they get every year in suites from the corporations, they could chop off the second-tier section of seats above it and probably not miss the revenue all that much.

Do corporations buy the suites for NC State as well as the Hurricanes? A lot of arenas do that, most notably the Air Canada Centre, where you can't even buy season tickets for the Leafs without buying tickets to the Raptors.

[Viper]

MLB: At one point there was talk of the A's landing in Portland, OR; and I'll admit "Portland A's" does have almost as nice a ring to it as "Oakland A's".

NFL: Chargers, Raiders, Rams and Jaguars: Two of those teams to Los Angeles, one to London, the other can either stay where they are or go to someplace not on most people's radar at the moment. (San Antonio? Portland again? Mexico City?)

NBA: Pretty much every team north of the Mason-Dixon line other than the Knicks, Nets, Celitcs and Bulls might as well be based in Siberia as far as free agents are concerned (not just the T-Wolves, as one poster mentioned). Forget relocation (most of the big, sexy markets are already taken, and there aren't enough viable Sun Belt markets to go around); they should just be put out of their misery in an act of mass franchise euthanasia.

NHL: Coyotes to Seattle; Panthers to either Quebec City or, yet again, Portland, OR.

[dfwabel]

Butts in the seats are okay but it's the corporate bigwig market that keeps the home fires burning. Why? I don't know. But it really doesn't matter much - for what they get every year in suites from the corporations, they could chop off the second-tier section of seats above it and probably not miss the revenue all that much.

Do corporations buy the suites for NC State as well as the Hurricanes? A lot of arenas do that, most notably the Air Canada Centre, where you can't even buy season tickets for the Leafs without buying tickets to the Raptors.

Suites are controlled by the Hurricanes with NC State getting 15% of overall suite revenues. An annual suite contact for the Hurricanes also gives the leasee basketball tickets. Single game suites are available since last season, 1/3rd of there suites went unsold.

[Evil G]

MLB: At one point there was talk of the A's landing in Portland, OR; and I'll admit "Portland A's" does have almost as nice a ring to it as "Oakland A's".

Somehow I doubt the A's are going out of Northern California. The Rays would be a better choice if they could find a way to break that lease of theirs.

[The_Admiral]

Suites are controlled by the Hurricanes with NC State getting 15% of overall suite revenues. An annual suite contact for the Hurricanes also gives the leasee basketball tickets. Single game suites are available since last season, 1/3rd of there suites went unsold.

You'd really think it'd be the other way around. The arena is on NC State's campus. Weird. I guess suite revenue is how NC State lured them there in the first place.

[dfwabel]

Suites are controlled by the Hurricanes with NC State getting 15% of overall suite revenues. An annual suite contact for the Hurricanes also gives the leasee basketball tickets. Single game suites are available since last season, 1/3rd of there suites went unsold.

You'd really think it'd be the other way around. The arena is on NC State's campus. Weird. I guess suite revenue is how NC State lured them there in the first place.

Thing is that it and adjacent Carter-Finley Stadium are not considered a part of the campus (but by attending games there, I would disagree). Those plots of land are considered property of the fairgrounds. What is state, university, or fairground owned property, mixes it up so much more.

Plus, there was the naming rights battle between NC State and the Hurricanes (via Gale Force) as to who was to get the $$$.

NC State thought they had all naming rights since Reynolds was to be replaced regardless. So we got Stormy the Pig as a basic exchange..

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/1011/6409408s1.html

NC State received a higher percentage of future naming rights for the first ten years of any contracts.

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/print-edition/2013/06/07/per-contract-ncsus-pnc-rights-share.html?page=all

[HedleyLamarr]

Suites are controlled by the Hurricanes with NC State getting 15% of overall suite revenues. An annual suite contact for the Hurricanes also gives the leasee basketball tickets. Single game suites are available since last season, 1/3rd of there suites went unsold.

You'd really think it'd be the other way around. The arena is on NC State's campus. Weird. I guess suite revenue is how NC State lured them there in the first place.

Thing is that it and adjacent Carter-Finley Stadium are not considered a part of the campus (but by attending games there, I would disagree). Those plots of land are considered property of the fairgrounds). What is state, university, or fairground owned property, mixes it up so much more.

Yeah, I was gonna say, if that's considered campus property, their campus must be huge as there's not much around the arena and football stadium but parking lots and the fairgrounds. Perfect if you're intentions are to tailgate, but not so much if you're looking to make game day a lengthy destination spot (attending the game, hitting a local watering hole within walking distance to the arena before/after a game, other to-do's to keep the kids entertained, etc.).

Raleigh is like the anti-Nashville when it comes to entertaining yourself as an out-of-towner on game days. We very well could have stopped at a Snoopy's....driving around Raleigh and the area near the arena was pretty dull.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, can I say something about that whole Nashville entertainment thing, albeit a few weeks late? Perds fans, you don't get to have it both ways: you talk about how great your downtown is and what a party destination it is, and then when it is a destination for other people's partying, other people whose hockey teams beat yours, all of a sudden WAH WAH THESE DRUNKEN YANKEES ARE RAPING AND PILLAGING OUR FAIR VILLAGE AND AFTER ALL WE'VE DONE FOR YOU. News flash, hee-haws: you don't get to traffic in the abundant consumption of alcohol and cocaine (p.s.: enjoy the forthcoming Mike Ribeiro crash) and then complain about people's behavior under influence of said abundant alcohol and cocaine. No, I don't condone drunken misbehavior, either, but I also don't celebrate my area's capacity for enabling it. What a bunch of tenderfeet, though, really. Geez.