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I mean, the NBA is now telling a Hornets fan who stuck with his team when they moved to New Orleans that they actually switched to a completely different franchise. And that's just not right.

How many 90s Hornets fans are still following the New Orleans franchise and not the one in Charlotte?
*Raises hand*

Born and raised in Louisiana, loved the original Charlotte Hornets, was ecstatic when they moved here. I've been to camps they've held here (got David Wesley's autograph), games, and All-Star games, and I own multiple jerseys (Baron Davis, Jamal Mashburn, and Chris Paul) and some gear. I loved the Hornets brand and colors, loved the fact that I finally had a home team that I actually liked (meh on the Saints and LSU football), and loved that a team I had once followed from afar was now in my state. Never gave much of a crap about the Bobcats or their players, and I feel a bit bummed that the Charlotte/NO Hornets brand has been slapped onto a team I have no connection to, and that the actual Charlotte/NO Hornets team now looks totally different, and is treated as such. As a result, I almost have to force myself to care about Hornets 2.0, and my fandom for the Pelicans has taken a big hit, as I'm not a big fan of the brand (the logo is the only thing I really like).

I know that I was a benefactor of the Hornets-to-New Orleans mess, being a Hornets fan in Louisiana, but still, the whole name change/history swap ordeal annoyed me when it went down, and it still does to this day. (The whole "give Charlotte their rightful name back, but "Jazz" is Utah's and should stay there!" attitude from some at the time didn't help matters either).

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I mean, the NBA is now telling a Hornets fan who stuck with his team when they moved to New Orleans that they actually switched to a completely different franchise. And that's just not right.

How many 90s Hornets fans are still following the New Orleans franchise and not the one in Charlotte?
I'm sure they're out there, honestly maybe a few more than in most case moved because some cheered for the team because of their branding, not the city, and I'm sure a number of them still stayed with the same franchise when they switched names. It doesn't matter how many, the fact of the matter is that anyone who stuck with this franchise got screwed.

I remember there being a guy on a forum I went to who'd stuck with the A's since they were in Philadelphia, so stuff like this does happen.

I know this happens some. I think it's particularly common with fans from no-team areas. For (a made up) example, a fan from New Mexico took on the North Stars as his hockey team and continued to follow them as they became the Dallas Stars. I know this happens. However, I don't know that the "fan emotion" angle is the one to play from the "pro-franchise-history" side, as I totally acknowledge there is a ton more fan emotion to draw from on the "pro-city-history" side. Regarding the North Stars example, there are a lot more people like me (North Stars fans sad to see them go) or Dallas Guy (Stars fan who does not care too much about the Minnesota history) than there are like my fake "followed the franise in both cities" guy.

Honestly it doesn't matter how many there are, that was only really a side point, the simple fact of the matter is you can't arbitrarily rewrite history. In 2002 NO ONE considered the New Orleans Hornets an expansion, and yet now that's what the NBA considers to have happened.

I believe things were at least already decided in the whole Browns/Ravens debacle, so people were at least told from the get go that the Ravens were an "expansion team", instead of it being 100% retroactive. Yet that doesn't make it right by any means.

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I would follow anyone of my teams to the new city if they moved, even if that city got a team back eventually. But cases like the Hornets muddle things up.

I think a name change would have a lot to do with it.

I think if I was a Charlotte Hornets fan I would've followed them to NO and not cared about the Bobcats, but now that there back in CHA I think I would go back to them even though the team I originally liked would be the Pelicans.

But if it's a Dallas/North Stars situation I'd probably be a Stars fan and wouldn't care about the Wild.

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Going back to the Bulls logo for a second, is that "Windy City" logo not an official mark?

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Here's a change that isn't happening, but that would be so nice: the Nets should swap out the thin, wispy numbers for some block numbers, as they have on their Summer League and practice jerseys:

markel.0.0.jpg

The Nets are surely the only team whose Summer League uniforms are better than their regular uniforms.

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^You mean a templated mess with Adidas branding running down the sides is better than their classy looking uniforms? Yeah right. Sure their uniforms aren't the best, but they are miles ahead of their practice jerseys. And the block numbers wouldn't really make sense as they would clash with the font style of the wordmarks.

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^You mean a templated mess with Adidas branding running down the sides is better than their classy looking uniforms? Yeah right. Sure their uniforms aren't the best, but they are miles ahead of their practice jerseys. And the block numbers wouldn't really make sense as they would clash with the font style of the wordmarks.

If I can live with the Adidas stripes on the Chelsea and NYCFC uniforms, I can live with them on the Nets' uniforms.

Also, the block numbers look great with the Celtics' thin-lettered wordmark. They look equally good with the Nets'.

This:

hi-res-451490901-kris-humphries-of-the-b

...is better than this:

1367866198_kris-humphries-lg.jpg

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^ The Celtics' wordmarks are still a block font, so it fits with the block numbers. The Nets' wordmarks are not a block font, and hence wouldn't fit with block numbers. And NBA game jerseys have never featured branding such as Adidas stripes (not counting All Star jerseys), as soccer kits have for 30-40 years, so a comparison between an NBA jersey and an Adidas soccer jersey is pretty off base IMO. NBA jerseys have always been unique to the specific teams, whereas the practice jerseys are templated and the Adidas branding is a focal point, instead of just the team branding, like Adidas soccer kits. Of course I respect your opinion, but I feel as if many other people would agree with me on the issue of the practice jerseys, as well as the block numbers not meshing with the Nets' wordmarks. Now I'm not saying block numbers couldn't work with the Nets, I'm just saying that the wordmarks would have to be adjusted in order to fit with the block numbers.

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^ The Celtics' wordmarks are still a block font, so it fits with the block numbers. The Nets' wordmarks are not a block font, and hence wouldn't fit with block numbers. And NBA game jerseys have never featured branding such as Adidas stripes (not counting All Star jerseys), as soccer kits have for 30-40 years, so a comparison between an NBA jersey and an Adidas soccer jersey is pretty off base IMO. NBA jerseys have always been unique to the specific teams, whereas the practice jerseys are templated and the Adidas branding is a focal point, instead of just the team branding, like Adidas soccer kits. Of course I respect your opinion, but I feel as if many other people would agree with me on the issue of the practice jerseys, as well as the block numbers not meshing with the Nets' wordmarks. Now I'm not saying block numbers couldn't work with the Nets, I'm just saying that the wordmarks would have to be adjusted in order to fit with the block numbers.

I am not saying that I necessarily want Adidas stripes on the Nets' uniforms. I am just saying that, aesthetically, the presence of those stripes (and even of the coloured shoulders) doesn't detract from the uniforms as much as the block numbers add to them.

Also, while I suppose that it's technically true that the Celtics' wordmark is a block font, in that the the C and the S (and the B and the O in the road "Boston" mark) have angles, you have to look pretty darn close to see them. From typical viewing distances, the Celtics' home and road wordmarks appear to be just as rounded as the Nets' "Brooklyn" mark is.

At any rate, there is no clash between a non-block wordmark and a block number, as demonstrated by the old Blazers and Sonics jerseys, which looked great with block numbers next to non-block wordmarks.

Clyde-Drexler-Blazers-e1327608780880.jpg

1374770010_QSgZOdQVyGM1LGFt0e2A_GPmid481

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^ The Celtics' wordmarks are still a block font, so it fits with the block numbers. The Nets' wordmarks are not a block font, and hence wouldn't fit with block numbers. And NBA game jerseys have never featured branding such as Adidas stripes (not counting All Star jerseys), as soccer kits have for 30-40 years, so a comparison between an NBA jersey and an Adidas soccer jersey is pretty off base IMO. NBA jerseys have always been unique to the specific teams, whereas the practice jerseys are templated and the Adidas branding is a focal point, instead of just the team branding, like Adidas soccer kits. Of course I respect your opinion, but I feel as if many other people would agree with me on the issue of the practice jerseys, as well as the block numbers not meshing with the Nets' wordmarks. Now I'm not saying block numbers couldn't work with the Nets, I'm just saying that the wordmarks would have to be adjusted in order to fit with the block numbers.

I am not saying that I necessarily want Adidas stripes on the Nets' uniforms. I am just saying that, aesthetically, the presence of those stripes (and even of the coloured shoulders) doesn't detract from the uniforms as much as the block numbers add to them.

Also, while I suppose that it's technically true that the Celtics' wordmark is a block font, in that the the C and the S (and the B and the O in the road "Boston" mark) have angles, you have to look pretty darn close to see them. From typical viewing distances, the Celtics' home and road wordmarks appear to be just as rounded as the Nets' "Brooklyn" mark is.

At any rate, there is no clash between a non-block wordmark and a block number, as demonstrated by the old Blazers and Sonics jerseys, which looked great with block numbers next to non-block wordmarks.

Clyde-Drexler-Blazers-e1327608780880.jpg

1374770010_QSgZOdQVyGM1LGFt0e2A_GPmid481

God, those were amazing uniform matchups. I hope those two were able to do black vs. green at least once.

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Those are two classic and beautiful uniforms, but pretty bad examples because neither of those fonts for the wordmarks would make for a decent or realistic number font. They kind of had to use block numbers because of that. The Nets' numbers aren't that bad, and fit the wordmarks a hell of a lot better than block numbers.

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The '90s Blazers set was far superior, and I feel they were one of the few teams for which a rounded font was appropriate. And no, the Blazer and Sonics probably didn't do black vs. green because it wasn't until recently that sports leagues started outfitting like junior high rec leagues that could only afford one set of uniforms.

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Those are two classic and beautiful uniforms, but pretty bad examples because neither of those fonts would make for a decent or realistic number font. The Nets' numbers aren't that bad, and fit the wordmarks a hell of a lot better than block numbers.

Well, having wordmark fonts that are ill-suited to numbers hasn't stopped the Brewers and Mariners from using such numbers.

mlb-milwaukee-brewers-colorado-rockies.j

Cano%20Mariners%20Latino.jpg

The point is that the Blazers and Sonics could have eschewed block fonts in a misguided attempt to avoid a "clash" with their non-block wordmark; but they wisely chose not to.

Now, you are right to suggest that there are some instances in which a matching number font is best. Sticking with the Mariners, their original uniform provides a good illustration of this.

(original)

92610-9726633Fr.jpg

(throwback)

Astros_Mariners_Baseball.jpg

Block numbers would not have been nearly as good on that uniform. And I think that we can all agree that the Blue Jays (original style and current style) are another great example of this.

Back to basketball, you have the early-80s Knicks:

sports-all-time-ugliest-uniforms-new-yor

But I don't think that the current Nets' set falls into that class where a non-standard matching number font is better than a block number font. The Nets' numbers are far too thin to work, in my opinion.

You know, when the Nets' uniforms first came out after the move, I more-or-less liked them. This was mainly a result of my being relieved that they weren't garish, which was a big fear of mine. As time has gone on, however, I have become more and more discontented with those unis. The thin numbers are one flaw; another is the lack of the team name on the home jersey. And then there's the problem of their using the secondary B-ball logo inappropriately, where the primary sheild logo should go, such as at centre court. So their whole set has really begun to bug me.

Maybe it's good that they have underperformed, so that a reworking of the uni style becomes just a little bit more likely. (And here I reveal my uni-fan secret: I care more about the uniforms than I do about the team's performance, except insofar as the performance impacts on the prospects for changing or keeping the current uniform style.)

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^ The Celtics' wordmarks are still a block font, so it fits with the block numbers. The Nets' wordmarks are not a block font, and hence wouldn't fit with block numbers. And NBA game jerseys have never featured branding such as Adidas stripes (not counting All Star jerseys), as soccer kits have for 30-40 years, so a comparison between an NBA jersey and an Adidas soccer jersey is pretty off base IMO. NBA jerseys have always been unique to the specific teams, whereas the practice jerseys are templated and the Adidas branding is a focal point, instead of just the team branding, like Adidas soccer kits. Of course I respect your opinion, but I feel as if many other people would agree with me on the issue of the practice jerseys, as well as the block numbers not meshing with the Nets' wordmarks. Now I'm not saying block numbers couldn't work with the Nets, I'm just saying that the wordmarks would have to be adjusted in order to fit with the block numbers.

I am not saying that I necessarily want Adidas stripes on the Nets' uniforms. I am just saying that, aesthetically, the presence of those stripes (and even of the coloured shoulders) doesn't detract from the uniforms as much as the block numbers add to them.

Also, while I suppose that it's technically true that the Celtics' wordmark is a block font, in that the the C and the S (and the B and the O in the road "Boston" mark) have angles, you have to look pretty darn close to see them. From typical viewing distances, the Celtics' home and road wordmarks appear to be just as rounded as the Nets' "Brooklyn" mark is.

At any rate, there is no clash between a non-block wordmark and a block number, as demonstrated by the old Blazers and Sonics jerseys, which looked great with block numbers next to non-block wordmarks.

Clyde-Drexler-Blazers-e1327608780880.jpg

1374770010_QSgZOdQVyGM1LGFt0e2A_GPmid481

God, those were amazing uniform matchups. I hope those two were able to do black vs. green at least once.

This was the closest they got ... this was Christmas 2007, I believe?

Man, I love color vs. color games.

blazers-jack-122507.jpg

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Not this topic again....eec256ee3f8b1e13774372233cc0beace99.gif

As long as the NBA is stupid with their history, people will continue to say how stupid they are with their history. The fact that it's been discussed before doesn't mean the NBA's stupidity is immune to anymore discussion.

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Going back to the Bulls logo for a second, is that "Windy City" logo not an official mark?

I would guess 499 of the last 500 times I've seen a bulls head logo on a hat it's been the "Windy City" one. I don't quite get why it's so prevalent on hats but not really elsewhere.

I really hate that logo, btw.

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As far as I know it somehow fells into the throwback category and thus can be used by Mitchell & Ness.

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The "Windy City" logo was used on the back of warmup shirts for a couple of seasons in the early 70s, but it was never really considered an "official" logo. I'm guessing it's become the Bulls' de facto "retro" logo in the absence of any other logos.

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