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FAKING IT: TSN documentary on counterfeiting


nash61

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Watched this really interesting TSN documentary on counterfeit autographs, tickets, and jerseys. Good for them for bringing this to the forefront.

PART 1: The Name Game (Autographs) http://www.tsn.ca/video/faking-it-the-name-game-1.200794

PART 2: Tickets to Nowhere (Tickets) http://www.tsn.ca/video/faking-it-tickets-to-nowhere-1.201661

PART 3: Jersey Ploys (Jerseys) http://www.tsn.ca/video/faking-it-jersey-ploys-1.202302

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Great documentary on that. I hadn't looked at an NHL jersey in about 15 years, I didn't realize that they were over 200 bucks now.

Yup, and that is for a replica. Authentics are $300+ and good luck finding one. Hence, why there is a market for knock-offs.

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Why is it that so many people are fine spending $40 on a knock-off because it's cheaper, (and allegedly looks perfect) yet not one of those people would buy a knock-off say iPhone for $100 when an authentic one will cost you $700? They'd likely call someone out on having a fake phone yet, the jersey is fine. Most phones are designed to break after 2 years and become obsolete within a year. I just don't get why clothing seems to be fine to bootleg, yet other things that are priced far worse are okay to spend money on?

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Why is it that so many people are fine spending $40 on a knock-off because it's cheaper, (and allegedly looks perfect) yet not one of those people would buy a knock-off say iPhone for $100 when an authentic one will cost you $700? They'd likely call someone out on having a fake phone yet, the jersey is fine. Most phones are designed to break after 2 years and become obsolete within a year. I just don't get why clothing seems to be fine to bootleg, yet other things that are price far worse are okay to spend money on?

Not a great comparison between clothing and personal electronic devices. An apple product has proprietary functions and features that cannot be easily counterfeited in addition they take very active measures to protect their IP. Sports leagues do not. The ecosystem compatibility is also a huge factor with something like an iPhone. Given apple's built in IP security and the availability of cost effective substitute there's effectively no market for counterfeit apple goods in North America. Now when it comes to China that's a different proposition simply due to their complete disregard for IP laws and the fact that you've got a much more impressionable and brand obsessed consumer that is completely unaware what an apple product is supposed to be,

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I tweeted to the reporter, Rick Winstead, that the Maple Leafs jersey shown in closeups in part 3 was a fake. The crest was in the wrong font. Something many of us here would notice right away, yet it was never mentioned at all that this particular jersey was a fake.

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Why is it that so many people are fine spending $40 on a knock-off because it's cheaper, (and allegedly looks perfect) yet not one of those people would buy a knock-off say iPhone for $100 when an authentic one will cost you $700? They'd likely call someone out on having a fake phone yet, the jersey is fine. Most phones are designed to break after 2 years and become obsolete within a year. I just don't get why clothing seems to be fine to bootleg, yet other things that are price far worse are okay to spend money on?

I'm not defending counterfeiting here, but I think people justify it because there's no intermediate step in the sports apparel market. I watched the documentary the other night with my wife, who is not a sports fan at all, and she said something to the effect of, "If they don't want counterfeit jerseys, then the real ones shouldn't be so expensive."

With phones, yes, there's the iPhone, but there are several authentic lower-priced options below that, whether that's another company or operating system. With sports apparel, there aren't as many options. You have authentic jerseys, replica jerseys, then maybe shirseys, then nothing. As long as there is that big a gap in the marketplace, someone is always going to try to fill that gap.

One thing I didn't realize before seeing the documentary was when the police officer mentioned that most of the proceeds from counterfeit jerseys goes to organized crime. Another weapon in the arsenal for those arguing against buying counterfeits, I suppose.

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Why is it that so many people are fine spending $40 on a knock-off because it's cheaper, (and allegedly looks perfect) yet not one of those people would buy a knock-off say iPhone for $100 when an authentic one will cost you $700? They'd likely call someone out on having a fake phone yet, the jersey is fine. Most phones are designed to break after 2 years and become obsolete within a year. I just don't get why clothing seems to be fine to bootleg, yet other things that are price far worse are okay to spend money on?

Not a great comparison between clothing and personal electronic devices. An apple product has proprietary functions and features that cannot be easily counterfeited in addition they take very active measures to protect their IP. Sports leagues do not. The ecosystem compatibility is also a huge factor with something like an iPhone. Given apple's built in IP security and the availability of cost effective substitute there's effectively no market for counterfeit apple goods in North America. Now when it comes to China that's a different proposition simply due to their complete disregard for IP laws and the fact that you've got a much more impressionable and brand obsessed consumer that is completely unaware what an apple product is supposed to be,

The point I was making was the difference in quality of a $40 jersey versus a Canadian made authentic (and most counterfeit clothes in general) is on par of that of a iPhone "clone" versus a real iPhone.

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Why is it that so many people are fine spending $40 on a knock-off because it's cheaper, (and allegedly looks perfect) yet not one of those people would buy a knock-off say iPhone for $100 when an authentic one will cost you $700? They'd likely call someone out on having a fake phone yet, the jersey is fine. Most phones are designed to break after 2 years and become obsolete within a year. I just don't get why clothing seems to be fine to bootleg, yet other things that are price far worse are okay to spend money on?

Not a great comparison between clothing and personal electronic devices. An apple product has proprietary functions and features that cannot be easily counterfeited in addition they take very active measures to protect their IP. Sports leagues do not. The ecosystem compatibility is also a huge factor with something like an iPhone. Given apple's built in IP security and the availability of cost effective substitute there's effectively no market for counterfeit apple goods in North America. Now when it comes to China that's a different proposition simply due to their complete disregard for IP laws and the fact that you've got a much more impressionable and brand obsessed consumer that is completely unaware what an apple product is supposed to be,

The point I was making was the difference in quality of a $40 jersey versus a Canadian made authentic (and most counterfeit clothes in general) is on par of that of a iPhone "clone" versus a real iPhone.

Yeah and I disagree with your comparison, they just aren't on par. The consumer perception gap of quality in clothing between counterfeit apparel and authentic is much narrower than consumer electronics. Electronics have very capable substitutes for those looking to shop price point and are not brand loyal. Logo/branded/licensed jerseys don't offer that lower priced substitute in the eyes of the consumer (walmart price point jerseys are about the only value option which are terrible) which makes the bootleg authentic a very attractive proposition.

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The comments on the articles on TSN read a lot of "They're good quality, look the same, who cares if it's fake?" or "It's so much cheaper and looks the same."

No people, they don't look the same and most of the ones I have seen are not good quality.

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One thing I didn't realize before seeing the documentary was when the police officer mentioned that most of the proceeds from counterfeit jerseys goes to organized crime. Another weapon in the arsenal for those arguing against buying counterfeits, I suppose.

Well technically, counterfeit jersey manufacturing IS organized crime. The term "organized crime" always makes me think of the mafia or something.

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The NHL has the most expensive jerseys. $200+ (Canadian) for a jersey with a name on it.

I can get a jersey with a name on it from any other league for less than $120 (at most).

There is a reason NHL jerseys are the most counter-fitted. NHL replica jerseys are still made with the old jersey material, just a different cut.

I would never buy a knock-off, but I really hope this forces prices to drop.

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There is a reason NHL jerseys are the most counter-fitted.

Counter-argument: a jersey is a luxury item, not an essential. You don't NEED one, so you aren't entitled to one at a "reasonable" price.

Don't get me wrong. The prices are, in my opinion, too high. That's why I've only bought one sweater since the EDGE changeover. The solution, though, isn't to support an illegal business. It's to just go "well I guess I won't get a jersey." If enough people do that then basic supply and demand will force the NHL to lower their prices.

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Why is it that so many people are fine spending $40 on a knock-off because it's cheaper, (and allegedly looks perfect) yet not one of those people would buy a knock-off say iPhone for $100 when an authentic one will cost you $700? They'd likely call someone out on having a fake phone yet, the jersey is fine. Most phones are designed to break after 2 years and become obsolete within a year. I just don't get why clothing seems to be fine to bootleg, yet other things that are price far worse are okay to spend money on?

Not a great comparison between clothing and personal electronic devices. An apple product has proprietary functions and features that cannot be easily counterfeited in addition they take very active measures to protect their IP. Sports leagues do not. The ecosystem compatibility is also a huge factor with something like an iPhone. Given apple's built in IP security and the availability of cost effective substitute there's effectively no market for counterfeit apple goods in North America. Now when it comes to China that's a different proposition simply due to their complete disregard for IP laws and the fact that you've got a much more impressionable and brand obsessed consumer that is completely unaware what an apple product is supposed to be,

The point I was making was the difference in quality of a $40 jersey versus a Canadian made authentic (and most counterfeit clothes in general) is on par of that of a iPhone "clone" versus a real iPhone.

Yeah and I disagree with your comparison, they just aren't on par. The consumer perception gap of quality in clothing between counterfeit apparel and authentic is much narrower than consumer electronics. Electronics have very capable substitutes for those looking to shop price point and are not brand loyal. Logo/branded/licensed jerseys don't offer that lower priced substitute in the eyes of the consumer (walmart price point jerseys are about the only value option which are terrible) which makes the bootleg authentic a very attractive proposition.

I'm not arguing about the consumer perception nor the lack of a value option though. I agree with everything you're saying. One of our points does not negate the other.

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Thanks for that.

Despite what you think counterfeit jerseys do not matter if the quality is on par with the officials, I having both official and bootleg jerseys. The difference is paying $60 or less for what is a solid replica by essentially chinese slaves or paying $100-400 for a $30 jersey made by essentially chinese slaves that the rich elite consider "authentic products". I don't feel moral either way.

I could not see paying more than $50 max on a jersey of any kind. It's something you just wear to support a team, why does it need to be "official"? And yes, you make it up through other purchases to support your team.

And they brought up that it sometimes goes into other illegal operations, the two choices for the same product are corrupt businessmen who ruin lives and those in illegal operations who ruins lives. They are honestly on the same level of scum to me, so I just choose to get most of my jerseys from thrift shops. At least i know the money is actually going to help people.

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