2015 NCAA Football Thread

[TheRicSlick]

Without getting into how much I hate the "partnership" between ESPN & SEC... it absolutely disgusts me.

Eh, at least that's a whole conference, unlike Texas and their very own Longhorn Network.

[JayMac]

Without getting into how much I hate the "partnership" between ESPN & SEC... it absolutely disgusts me.

Me too. Then again, almost everything about the "world wide leader" disgusts me.

[MJWalker45]

The main thing that bugs me is that the SEC network has 3 spots on my cable channels constantly running. If it were like the Big Ten with one channel and the alternates only being used during football season I'd understand. The Pac-12 has 3 channels but they are broken up between LA, the Northwest and a national channel. With the SEC channels there's no regional designation that I'm aware of. I'm still surprised Fox hasn't gotten the Big 12 Network up and running. I know the Longhorn Channel causes them some butthurt but the rest of the conference should have figured out a way to make both channels work by now.

[4_tattoos]

@MJWalker45:

I doub't the NCAA would go to San Antonio. The FBS Championship is already in Arlington & the FCS Championship is in Frisco. I can't picture them going to Texas again. But you never know.

[dfwabel]

@MJWalker45:

I doub't the NCAA would go to San Antonio. The FBS Championship is already in Arlington & the FCS Championship is in Frisco. I can't picture them going to Texas again. But you never know.

There is no NCAA "FBS Championship" as the NCAA does not sponsor it as a championship sport. The NCAA will go where they will get the biggest tax breaks. Kansas City will host at least through 2017.

The College Football Playoff does and Arlington was only the location for year one and won't be back until 2021 at the earliest.

This year it will be held in Glendale, AZ and the following year, Tampa. Then the bids for 2018-2020 were due in May and Arlington, Indianapolis, and Pasadena did not bid.

2018: Atlanta, Houston, Miami, Santa Clara

2019: Charlotte, Detroit, Houston, New Orleans, San Antonio, Santa Clara

2020: Charlotte, Houston, Minneapolis, New Orleans, San Antonio, Santa Clara

Credit: SB Nation

[HedleyLamarr]

FSU, like all schools, has a suspension until the legal process runs its course policy. They also have a habit of standing by their athletes when they believe them to be innocent. Thus why Jimbo stood by Jameis so firmly who, despite ignorant public perception, was never charged with anything even in the Code of Conduct hearing where all the accuser had to do was be 51% believable but she couldn't do that.

And we're not just talking a little weed, this was felony amounts and possession of other paraphernalia with intent to sell. But he was never actually arrested. A Bama player caught in Tuscaloosa with felony amounts of weed in a state with strict weed laws ... it's no surprise he was never actually arrested.

http://deadspin.com/alabama-tight-end-busted-with-a-quarter-pound-of-weed-i-1645926818

Now yeah, SEC schools have their bad eggs, but there aren't many instances of domestic abuse by the schools' athletes and them staying in school and on the team. Ton of marijuana charges, some dumb cases involving serial numbers scratched off guns or stealing laptops, a slew of DUI's, etc., but not much in the way of hitting/raping women. Spurrier's quipped about loving to play Georgia early in the season because they're bound to have some good players suspended early on.

The fact that Cook is still on the roster today and how Jameis escaped all his allegations was that there was no video tape of his alleged actions. Remember how the sports world got outraged once the Ray Rice video surfaced? Same exact thing. That DeAndre guy only got cut from the team because there's video of what happened. Florida State isn't acting any differently from how the Ravens, and by extension the NFL, handled their punishing of players. It also doesn't hurt that DeAndre wasn't a starter or planned on being a big contributor to the 2015 season. Releasing him doesn't hurt the team's chances of winning.

Jimbo can hide behind that policy because he knows where his bread's being buttered. He's in Tallahassee: the south's equivalent to Penn State. Their fans are rabid enough to where they can convince victims to change their story or drop the charges so that the football team doesn't suffer. The school and local police force have a history of giving the football team a bit more leeway than Average Joe. The local attorneys certainly favor the football team, too.

[the_grateful_ted]

Without getting into how much I hate the "partnership" between ESPN & SEC... it absolutely disgusts me.

Eh, at least that's a whole conference, unlike Texas and their very own Longhorn Network.

That pisses me off so much, just another reason to hate the longhorns

[Geoff]

FSU, like all schools, has a suspension until the legal process runs its course policy. They also have a habit of standing by their athletes when they believe them to be innocent. Thus why Jimbo stood by Jameis so firmly who, despite ignorant public perception, was never charged with anything even in the Code of Conduct hearing where all the accuser had to do was be 51% believable but she couldn't do that.

And we're not just talking a little weed, this was felony amounts and possession of other paraphernalia with intent to sell. But he was never actually arrested. A Bama player caught in Tuscaloosa with felony amounts of weed in a state with strict weed laws ... it's no surprise he was never actually arrested.

http://deadspin.com/alabama-tight-end-busted-with-a-quarter-pound-of-weed-i-1645926818

Now yeah, SEC schools have their bad eggs, but there aren't many instances of domestic abuse by the schools' athletes and them staying in school and on the team. Ton of marijuana charges, some dumb cases involving serial numbers scratched off guns or stealing laptops, a slew of DUI's, etc., but not much in the way of hitting/raping women. Spurrier's quipped about loving to play Georgia early in the season because they're bound to have some good players suspended early on.

The fact that Cook is still on the roster today and how Jameis escaped all his allegations was that there was no video tape of his alleged actions. Remember how the sports world got outraged once the Ray Rice video surfaced? Same exact thing. That DeAndre guy only got cut from the team because there's video of what happened. Florida State isn't acting any differently from how the Ravens, and by extension the NFL, handled their punishing of players. It also doesn't hurt that DeAndre wasn't a starter or planned on being a big contributor to the 2015 season. Releasing him doesn't hurt the team's chances of winning.

Jimbo can hide behind that policy because he knows where his bread's being buttered. He's in Tallahassee: the south's equivalent to Penn State. Their fans are rabid enough to where they can convince victims to change their story or drop the charges so that the football team doesn't suffer. The school and local police force have a history of giving the football team a bit more leeway than Average Joe. The local attorneys certainly favor the football team, too.

Or maybe in Jameis' case it was his accusers SEVEN different stories which contradicted themselves and were contradicted by evidence such as toxicology tests.

Cook would still be on roster at any other school in the nation because they're waiting for the legal system to do its thing. Cook will be gone, I have no doubt, he just isn't yet. They didn't feel the need to wait for the legal system in the case of Johnson because that video was damning enough.

Next time you want to discuss Florida State football with me, at least know what the :censored: you're talking about. I may be a fan but go look through my history on here the last 11+ years, I'm a realistic fan when it comes to any of my teams.

With regards to the Tallahassee PD, have you lived in Tallahassee? I've had plenty of non-football playing friends get a :censored: ton of leeway from the PD. Friends clearly drunk underage? "Go home." Friends caught with weed? "Go home." Hell, I've been at multiple parties that were broken up and the cops COUNTED TO 30 and gave all the underagers a chance to run away. I've been buying beer in Publix when the cops asked my friend and I if we had enough beer. Didn't stop us to ID us despite my baby face, but wanted to make sure we had enough beer.

There's a bias towards not doing paperwork and dealing with college kids in general more than there's a bias towards football players. But what do I know? I only lived in the city and saw how the city operated on a day-to-day basis.

[HedleyLamarr]

The Florida State football team has been Boys Town since the 90's, dude. I know what the hell I'm talking about.

At least you're willing to admit that it took a video to warrant kicking a player off a team. But again, an insignificant player. Winston definitely committed multiple acts of theft, being a public nuisance, and sexually assault and/or raped a woman...but since he was winning football games, he had the backing of the Tallahassee PD to cover that little rape thing up until TMZ came calling. Had Winston been the 3rd-string RB for a 7-5 FSU team, he'd been kicked off the team long ago. Not a chance in hell the starting QB for an undefeated team and a winner of the Heisman Trophy isn't going to get assistance in keeping his name clear from the local police. Hell, even Winston's attorney tweeted the name of the accused victim...and to my knowledge, didn't suffer any punishment for doing so.

Jimbo's not an idiot. He knows he's the most powerful man in town. The local police know it's in the best interests of the city to not have pivotal football players getting into trouble.

[See Red]

There was a report recently that disproves your thought that FSU football players don't get better treatment from the police than do regular college students, Geoff. Unfortunately Gainesville wasn't a whole lot better than Tallahassee in that regard as per the report. It seems like the cases involving FSU players seem considerably worse, though -- but, I mean, Dalvin Cook was a former Florida commit and they likely recruited all of these same kids, so it's not like UF is placing character above talent either. Regardless of whether you think Jameis raped a girl or not though, you can't possibly argue the local police didn't botch the investigation to the point where a conviction was an impossibility. And to UFs credit, when Treon Harris was accused of sexual assault, he was in definetely suspended the next day until the case was dropped -- and he still missed more games than Winston did for his alleged rape.

Also, I'll add that last season, FSU allowed their starting RB (name's slipping my mind -- Karlos Williams, I think?) to play in a game despite actively being investigated for allegedly assaulting his pregnant ex-girlfriend.

[Geoff]

The Florida State football team has been Boys Town since the 90's, dude. I know what the hell I'm talking about.

At least you're willing to admit that it took a video to warrant kicking a player off a team. But again, an insignificant player. Winston definitely committed multiple acts of theft, being a public nuisance, and sexually assault and/or raped a woman...but since he was winning football games, he had the backing of the Tallahassee PD to cover that little rape thing up until TMZ came calling. Had Winston been the 3rd-string RB for a 7-5 FSU team, he'd been kicked off the team long ago. Not a chance in hell the starting QB for an undefeated team and a winner of the Heisman Trophy isn't going to get assistance in keeping his name clear from the local police. Hell, even Winston's attorney tweeted the name of the accused victim...and to my knowledge, didn't suffer any punishment for doing so.

Jimbo's not an idiot. He knows he's the most powerful man in town. The local police know it's in the best interests of the city to not have pivotal football players getting into trouble.

By all accounts (even multiple of the accuser's), the female was on top. And her own sorority sisters said she left the bar with Jameis willingly. And your point about why it was swept under the rug isn't just dumb, it's flat out wrong. When the alleged sexual assault happened, Jameis was a redshirt freshman sitting on the bench. It wasn't until it became clear he'd be the starter that the accuser's aunt started dragging the case up again. You know who else was going to be a redshirt QB on the bench? Johnson and if memory serves correctly, he's gone. Also, let's look in the past a little bit. Greg Reid, not the best CB but the best option we had. Gone after failing too many drug tests. He was helping us win but was let go ... WHAT?! Hedley said that doesn't happen. Or let's look at Preston Parker, talented WR/RB/CB/whatever the hell we needed him to do. He was drunk and high in the drive through on McDonalds and was let go. I thought we didn't get rid of players who actually help us win. Reid must not have been a ballhawk and Parker must not have ever learned RB in a week and then put up 133 yards on 20 carries.

You want to come to UF's defense but a ton of people I saw immediately said UF overreacted, especially given the lack of charges. Then when the truth came out, even more people realized they overreacted. It's easy to allege someone did something and in the world we live in, you're automatically given benefit of the doubt with regards to rape and sexual assault. That can be both a positive and negative. If any charges had actually come, Jameis would have been suspended.

You want to go after TPD again but I'll again refer you to the COC hearing which was based off of testimony from the accuser and Jameis. Even then, the accuser couldn't be even the slightest bit more believable.

If you want to get down off your damn high horse and look into the details of the Jameis case, I'll gladly wait to hear back from you.

=====

To be clear, I'm not saying TPD are perfect. Not sure why I even need to say that when I admitted to seeing their laziness in person multiple times, it just isn't limited to the football team. They definitely get the benefit of the doubt but not really major stuff like rape or GTA (look up Arrington Jenkins, good LB prospect who stood to play the season he was let go).

I'm just arguing the idiocy of Hedley's claims about Jameis. If Johnson was dismissed due to being a player who wasn't helping the team win this season, why would Jameis be protected when the alleged rape occurred during his redshirt season?

[Cujo]

Jim McElwain clearly not missing Ft. Collins.

[the_grateful_ted]

Jim McElwain clearly not missing Ft. Collins.

Oh. My. God. Those are some great goggles he has there

[See Red]

The Florida State football team has been Boys Town since the 90's, dude. I know what the hell I'm talking about.

At least you're willing to admit that it took a video to warrant kicking a player off a team. But again, an insignificant player. Winston definitely committed multiple acts of theft, being a public nuisance, and sexually assault and/or raped a woman...but since he was winning football games, he had the backing of the Tallahassee PD to cover that little rape thing up until TMZ came calling. Had Winston been the 3rd-string RB for a 7-5 FSU team, he'd been kicked off the team long ago. Not a chance in hell the starting QB for an undefeated team and a winner of the Heisman Trophy isn't going to get assistance in keeping his name clear from the local police. Hell, even Winston's attorney tweeted the name of the accused victim...and to my knowledge, didn't suffer any punishment for doing so.

Jimbo's not an idiot. He knows he's the most powerful man in town. The local police know it's in the best interests of the city to not have pivotal football players getting into trouble.

By all accounts (even multiple of the accuser's), the female was on top. And her own sorority sisters said she left the bar with Jameis willingly. And your point about why it was swept under the rug isn't just dumb, it's flat out wrong. When the alleged sexual assault happened, Jameis was a redshirt freshman sitting on the bench. It wasn't until it became clear he'd be the starter that the accuser's aunt started dragging the case up again. You know who else was going to be a redshirt QB on the bench? Johnson and if memory serves correctly, he's gone. Also, let's look in the past a little bit. Greg Reid, not the best CB but the best option we had. Gone after failing too many drug tests. He was helping us win but was let go ... WHAT?! Hedley said that doesn't happen. Or let's look at Preston Parker, talented WR/RB/CB/whatever the hell we needed him to do. He was drunk and high in the drive through on McDonalds and was let go. I thought we didn't get rid of players who actually help us win. Reid must not have been a ballhawk and Parker must not have ever learned RB in a week and then put up 133 yards on 20 carries.

You want to come to UF's defense but a ton of people I saw immediately said UF overreacted, especially given the lack of charges. Then when the truth came out, even more people realized they overreacted. It's easy to allege someone did something and in the world we live in, you're automatically given benefit of the doubt with regards to rape and sexual assault. That can be both a positive and negative. If any charges had actually come, Jameis would have been suspended.

You want to go after TPD again but I'll again refer you to the COC hearing which was based off of testimony from the accuser and Jameis. Even then, the accuser couldn't be even the slightest bit more believable.

If you want to get down off your damn high horse and look into the details of the Jameis case, I'll gladly wait to hear back from you.

=====

To be clear, I'm not saying TPD are perfect. Not sure why I even need to say that when I admitted to seeing their laziness in person multiple times, it just isn't limited to the football team. They definitely get the benefit of the doubt but not really major stuff like rape or GTA (look up Arrington Jenkins, good LB prospect who stood to play the season he was let go).

Have you read the transcript of the conduct hearing? The judge (and others) had a general misunderstanding of the basic procedures of the hearing and nobody present on the night of the alleged incident even answered questions aside from the accuser, Winston included. As far as her story changing, as I understand it, the basic details of her story did not change -- an investigator with the state attorney's office confirmed this in the hearing. Fluctuations in stories are to be expected -- it's how the human brain works; it's why eye witness testimony is so unreliable. Winston, on the other hand, had an opportunity to formulate a story, likely with a lawyer due to the original investigation being the show that it was -- his first contact with investigators was two weeks after the incident, by telephone, and he refused to comment. How do you honestly expect her account to be deemed more reliable than his when the TPD didn't do the basic police work that could have confirmed a number of the details of her story until it was way too late and he had warning of the investigation before being physically approached for an official statement? He cited a lack of evidence -- evidence that should have been sought out in a reasonable amount of time after the case and wasn't -- there was a phone call from that night they couldn't play in the hearing because they lacked the technology, there was a part at the end where they were going to let her ask Winston questions, but then were like "oh wait, you're not supposed to talk to him. I guess you had to write the questions and submit them. Oh wells!". I mean, do you expect a retired state Supreme Court justice is going to accuse someone of rape based on he-said, she-said -- on recounts of what happened that night, which is known to be completely unreliable?

I'm just arguing the idiocy of Hedley's claims about Jameis. If Johnson was dismissed due to being a player who wasn't helping the team win this season, why would Jameis be protected when the alleged rape occurred during his redshirt season?

Probably for the same reason the TPD investigator suggested she not pursue the case -- football's a pretty big deal in Tallahassee. He was a five star recruit and very obviously the QB of the future. His recruitment was a pretty big deal, he signing was a big deal, and he was likely a pretty big deal around the campus.

It's either he was protected or the TPD is flat out incompetent. According to Willie Meggs, the prosecutor, They just missed all the basic fundamental stuff that you are supposed to do." He's also said, as a result, he believed it would be impossible to convict Jameis Winston, but that he doesn't necessarily mean he's innocent.

Here's from the New York Times (emphasis added by me):

In his announcement, the prosecutor, William N. Meggs, acknowledged a number of shortcomings in the police investigation. In fact, an examination by The New York Times has found that there was virtually no investigation at all, either by the police or the university.

The police did not follow the obvious leads that would have quickly identified the suspect as well as witnesses, one of whom videotaped part of the sexual encounter. After the accuser identified Mr. Winston as her assailant, the police did not even attempt to interview him for nearly two weeks and never obtained his DNA.

The detective handling the case waited two months to write his first report and then prematurely suspended his inquiry without informing the accuser. By the time the prosecutor got the case, important evidence had disappeared, including the video of the sexual act.

I'm not saying he definitely raped her -- but from everything I've read about it and basically seeing his poor decision making since then, it seems more likely than not. What I will say is that, in my opinion, either the incompetence or the indifference of the TPD made it impossible to get a conviction considering sexual assault is difficult to prove even when a proper investigation is conducted. A hypothetical question -- if the alleged victim were somebody you were close with, would you be at all satisfied with how any of how this investigation was conducted?

[Geoff]

WHAT?! I AM OUTRAGED THAT THE HEARING PROCEEDED AS IT WAS DESIGNED! There was a reason Winston and his attorney were so weary of this hearing. These things are, with good intentions, heavily favorable for the accuser. Winston essentially would have no chance at anything resembling due process.

The judge who heard the hearing said something like he wasn't saying Winston didn't anything wrong just that he had no proof of wrongdoing. Translation: the accuser had the lowest bar possible in any legal or legal-ish setting and still couldn't reach it.

And before anyone else parrots the dumb line about the State Attorney's invsetigation: Meggs actually has a history of going after football players and there have been FSU players in the recent past to get heavier charges than the Average Joe.

One last thing: for those who want an accurate take on Tallahassee from a non-FSU fan's perspective, here's a nice piece from Roll Bama Roll. The rest of the piece gets more opinion than fact (duh, it's about a Bama fan dealing with FSU fans) but his description of two towns in one is 100% on point.

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2015/7/14/8960049/tallahassee-and-florida-state-university-from-the-outside-looking-in

[BlackBolt3]

Trying to lighten the mood here:

DABO BOAT WHIP

And we're 7 weeks removed from the start of the season.

[Seadragon76]

A funny thing happened at SEC Media Days... They pick Auburn to win it all, but not their division

[See Red]

WHAT?! I AM OUTRAGED THAT THE HEARING PROCEEDED AS IT WAS DESIGNED! There was a reason Winston and his attorney were so weary of this hearing. These things are, with good intentions, heavily favorable for the accuser. Winston essentially would have no chance at anything resembling due process.

The judge who heard the hearing said something like he wasn't saying Winston didn't anything wrong just that he had no proof of wrongdoing. Translation: the accuser had the lowest bar possible in any legal or legal-ish setting and still couldn't reach it.

And before anyone else parrots the dumb line about the State Attorney's invsetigation: Meggs actually has a history of going after football players and there have been FSU players in the recent past to get heavier charges than the Average Joe.

One last thing: for those who want an accurate take on Tallahassee from a non-FSU fan's perspective, here's a nice piece from Roll Bama Roll. The rest of the piece gets more opinion than fact (duh, it's about a Bama fan dealing with FSU fans) but his description of two towns in one is 100% on point.

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2015/7/14/8960049/tallahassee-and-florida-state-university-from-the-outside-looking-in

Really? Because that translates to me like "I need something other than he-said, she-said to accuse this person of rape." Like evidence -- evidence that was non-existant because the investigators didn't do the basic police work to investigate the alleged crime. You're not addressing this. The fact that the case laid dormant for 11 months until a reporter caught a hold of it, that the investigators didn't follow any leads into who could have done it prior to her saying it was Winston, didn't seek out the video of the encounter, contacted Winston by phone two weeks after she identified him, didn't obtain DNA, never interviewed Winston or anyone else who was there that night until 11 months after the fact. Incompetence or indifference and how do you not understand how badly this impacted the case? If he did it, shoddy police work just about guaranteed nothing would ever come of it.

[Geoff]

Um, I have addressed it. I said TPD ain't the best but they're not just lazy with football players.

Care to elaborate how said reporter caught wind of the story. I'll give you a hint: the accuser's aunt/initial lawyer.

The TPD did follow some of the leads when they looked for the 5' 9", 200 lbs guy the accuser initially described before changing her story and identifying Jameis. For referernce, Jameis at the time was about 6' 3" or 6' 4" and roughly 215-225 lbs. Hardly fit the description given.

[hailstateunis]

A funny thing happened at SEC Media Days... They pick Auburn to win it all, but not their division

They also picked the same team to both finish last in its division and have the first team QB. SECMD voters make no sense.