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NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay


duma

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It will never happen unless a private investor fully funds his own stadium and then buys a team and moves it here.

Didn't read the article?

The interesting bit is that Stan Kronke, who owns the Rams (and whose lease in St. Louis goes year-to-year after next season) just happens to have reportedly bought a large parcel of land next to the Forum. Good location for a stadium, should he want to build one for the team he already owns.

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It's an interesting development to be sure. Two possibilities, both pretty reasonable.

1. Stan Kroenke buys and develops land, so he's buying and developing land. No doubt that he knew the press coverage this would stir, though. And that press coverage equals leverage in the negations with St. Louis.

2. Stan Kroenke has been quietly biding his time waiting to build a stadium in LA and move there. He's found his location.

Without repeating all the stuff I've said 20 times, I'm putting it at 75/25 they stay. So likely they do, but substantially possible they don't. Unfortunately, predictions like that are garbage because nobody seems to have a clue what this man is thinking.

I will say that if this speeds up the process, I'm happy about it. What's going to happen is going to happen. I want a resolution.

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Unfortunately, predictions like that are garbage because nobody seems to have a clue what this man is thinking.

All we know is that he thinks he wears an acceptable hairpiece.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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1. Stan Kroenke buys and develops land, so he's buying and developing land.

Yeah, considered that. Could well be the the case, although if that were so he could clear it up with a single word to a sympathetic reporter. Especially in light of...

No doubt that he knew the press coverage this would stir, though. And that press coverage equals leverage in the negations with St. Louis.

I thought about this as well, but it's not as though he needs any more leverage. He's already holding all the cards.

Plus, as you noted on several occasions, he has been remarkably reticent to play the "well, we could just go elsewhere" card. He has outright refused to publicly indicate that he's even considering moving, preferring instead to let his negotiating team work. Why would he change that now? That's the play of somebody losing the stadium game, not winning it.

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60 acres in Inglewood is not Chavez Ravine, so the NFL is probably not interested. But I'm sure they'll love the attention/fear this purchase of a too-small-for-a-stadium piece of land creates.

St. Louis weighs in. They think it's big enough: http://m.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/l-a-land-deal-raises-stakes-in-rams-stadium-talks/article_af7e5b59-0b30-5978-ad5d-2a7b3b0878d6.html?mobile_touch=true

And then Bryan Burwell draws many more conclusions, like "Los Angeles is officially back in play." Uh, there is nothing "official" about the land purchase relating to the NFL. LA is in the same place it's always been.

http://m.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bryan-burwell/burwell-kroenke-ups-the-stadium-ante/article_940aa250-1a31-5bc5-8fe5-4cc2e701970a.html?mobile_touch=true

One piece in that column to put things in perspective: Kroenke also just bought 80 acres in downtown Dallas. So he has a backup site if this one is too small. Dallas Rams! :)

This guy buys chunks of land like I buy baseball caps.

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1. Stan Kroenke buys and develops land, so he's buying and developing land.

Yeah, considered that. Could well be the the case, although if that were so he could clear it up with a single word to a sympathetic reporter. Especially in light of...

No doubt that he knew the press coverage this would stir, though. And that press coverage equals leverage in the negations with St. Louis.

I thought about this as well, but it's not as though he needs any more leverage. He's already holding all the cards.

Plus, as you noted on several occasions, he has been remarkably reticent to play the "well, we could just go elsewhere" card. He has outright refused to publicly indicate that he's even considering moving, preferring instead to let his negotiating team work. Why would he change that now? That's the play of somebody losing the stadium game, not winning it.

Nah. That's the play of a businessman looking for leverage. I don't think smart businessman stop gaining leverage just because they've already got some. Maybe he just gained an extra $100 million in public subsidy. Who knows.

Or, again, he could legitimately be playing his way out of St. Louis. Very hard to say right now.

I don't see this happening in reality (because it's barely large enough for a stadium if HE owns it and builds it let alone in a negotiation with the league), but wouldn't it be funny (like haha what a dick funny) if Kroenke announced plans to build a stadium on this land... and then leased it to the new expansion franchise going to LA?

Anyways, we'll see. Lots of cards still to be played.

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Update from Kroenke's organizations (not attributed to any particular person that I see).


"As real estate developers, the Kroenke Organizations are involved in numerous real estate deals across the country and North America. While we can confirm media reports that we recently purchased land in Inglewood, as a private company we don't typically discuss our plans for commercial or residential investments," said the statement from Kroenke's organizations.

"We have yet to decide what we are going to do with the property but we will look at all options, as we do with all of our properties."

Translation: "F*** you all. We do stuff. Oh, and... leverage b****es."

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60 acres in Inglewood is not Chavez Ravine, so the NFL is probably not interested. But I'm sure they'll love the attention/fear this purchase of a too-small-for-a-stadium piece of land creates.

I'm curious how much the NFL can weigh in on it if he builds the stadium himself. If he builds the stadium with his own money and owns it outright, and has the ability to leave, what good reason is there to stop him from doing it?

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60 acres in Inglewood is not Chavez Ravine, so the NFL is probably not interested. But I'm sure they'll love the attention/fear this purchase of a too-small-for-a-stadium piece of land creates.

I'm curious how much the NFL can weigh in on it if he builds the stadium himself. If he builds the stadium with his own money and owns it outright, and has the ability to leave, what good reason is there to stop him from doing it?

I think the short answer, based on those legal decisions regarding the Raiders, is that the NFL can't stop him at that point.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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60 acres in Inglewood is not Chavez Ravine, so the NFL is probably not interested. But I'm sure they'll love the attention/fear this purchase of a too-small-for-a-stadium piece of land creates.

I'm curious how much the NFL can weigh in on it if he builds the stadium himself. If he builds the stadium with his own money and owns it outright, and has the ability to leave, what good reason is there to stop him from doing it?

He would just need a vote of the owners if he builds and wants to move. If every legal hurdle was free and clear, I bet he'd get a 31-0 vote (with the Raiders abstaining). He's not the maverick that Al Davis was...I don't know if he'll say "I'm gonna move the team...just try to stop me..."

Smart is believing half of what you hear. Genius is knowing which half.

 

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Right, it would still have to be league approved as the owners gave up control of the market to the league. So in the same way other teams can protect their territory, the league protects LA.

The question of approval comes down to whether or not enough other owners feel like letting on guy already in the fraternity profit off the market is taking away potential profits from them. (Such as a gigantic expansion fee.)

That's not a black and white topic, of course.

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This seems to be a common theme:

this purchase of a too-small-for-a-stadium piece of land

it's barely large enough for a stadium

The plot of land is 60 acres. MetLife Stadium takes up 40 acres, the new Levi's Stadium will take up 42.

Would it be better to have more land, and therefore more parking spots? Sure. But this plot seems more than large enough to fit the stadium itself with some parking, and I'm sure a deal could be worked out for all those parking spots across the street.

Admittedly, this is very unscientific, but I took the plot of land as seen on Google Maps:

InglewoodStadiumLand1.jpg

Looks narrow, but I checked to see if you could fit the Coliseum (seating capacity 93,000) on that plot. Turns out that you can:

InglewoodStadiumLand2.jpg

Some good room for parking left over. Hell, if Kroenke wanted to, he could add a full-sized replica of the Rose Bowl and still have some room left over.

InglewoodStadiumLand3.jpg

Those are just the local stadiums, but they're college, so maybe they're apples to oranges. Let's see what happens when I put my local stadium on this map. Keep in mind that it houses stadium facilities for two teams, just as I presume the LA stadium would:

InglewoodStadiumLand4.jpg

Still no problem. But what if those seats aren't enough? I think FedEx Field still has the largest capacity among NFL stadiums, so let's see what that looks like:

InglewoodStadiumLand5.jpg

And just because everything's bigger in Texas - JerruhWorld fits too!

InglewoodStadiumLand6.jpg

And that's before we even ask the Hollywood Park people if we can buy any little pieces of their lot (which may or may not be an option, I honestly don't know).

Now, those are all stadiums built for other sites. An architect would come up with something to work within, taking best advantage of, this site's unique layout.

So whatever you want to say about this Inglewood site, "too small for an NFL stadium" doesn't seem to be a terribly valid criticism.

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Right, it would still have to be league approved as the owners gave up control of the market to the league. So in the same way other teams can protect their territory, the league protects LA.

The question of approval comes down to whether or not enough other owners feel like letting on guy already in the fraternity profit off the market is taking away potential profits from them. (Such as a gigantic expansion fee.)

Expansion fees are dependent upon there being markets to expand into. Given the balance in the NFL, I'm not sure any of the owners are counting on expansion anytime soon.

Plus relocation carries fees with it as well - reportedly in the neighborhood of $300 million in this case. Would any of these owners be interested in a bird in the hand? That doesn't seem to be a huge stumbling block.

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Is Hollywood Park's redevelopment commercial, residential, or mixed?

Also any chance he just wants to cash in on the parking lot now that MSG is doing things with the Forum again?

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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Right, it would still have to be league approved as the owners gave up control of the market to the league. So in the same way other teams can protect their territory, the league protects LA.

The question of approval comes down to whether or not enough other owners feel like letting on guy already in the fraternity profit off the market is taking away potential profits from them. (Such as a gigantic expansion fee.)

Expansion fees are dependent upon there being markets to expand into. Given the balance in the NFL, I'm not sure any of the owners are counting on expansion anytime soon.

Plus relocation carries fees with it as well - reportedly in the neighborhood of $300 million in this case. Would any of these owners be interested in a bird in the hand? That doesn't seem to be a huge stumbling block.

Right. Relocation fee would probably be around $300 million. But an expansion team is probably going to cost about $1billion.

That's not insignificant.

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Is Hollywood Park's redevelopment commercial, residential, or mixed?

Also any chance he just wants to cash in on the parking lot now that MSG is doing things with the Forum again?

The Hollywood Park redevelopment is suppose to be mixed-use; ironically, about five years ago, at the plot of land that Kroenke just recently bought, they wanted to build a Wal-Mart superstore right on the corner of Pincay Drive and Prairie Avenue, but the Inglewood politicians at the time voted it down.

When Churchill Downs bought the Hollywood Park property years before, they sold parcels of land to the east of the main track, most of which became two shopping centers (each on both sides of Century Boulevard, the southern boundary of HP), and a gated townhouse community. With the racetrack being now closed for good, the new redevelopment will be more of the same. It wouldn't surprise me if they go ahead and do what they reported a few months ago if Kroenke can work out something with the current HP owners--the stadium, new NFL Network HQs, shopping center, and new condos/townhomes.

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Right, it would still have to be league approved as the owners gave up control of the market to the league. So in the same way other teams can protect their territory, the league protects LA.

The question of approval comes down to whether or not enough other owners feel like letting on guy already in the fraternity profit off the market is taking away potential profits from them. (Such as a gigantic expansion fee.)

Expansion fees are dependent upon there being markets to expand into. Given the balance in the NFL, I'm not sure any of the owners are counting on expansion anytime soon.

Plus relocation carries fees with it as well - reportedly in the neighborhood of $300 million in this case. Would any of these owners be interested in a bird in the hand? That doesn't seem to be a huge stumbling block.

Right. Relocation fee would probably be around $300 million. But an expansion team is probably going to cost about $1billion.

That's not insignificant.

A certain $300 million right now with no work or impact on the league (and a brand-new ready-made relocation threat if Missouri feels stung enough to sweeten the pie for a prospective new team), against a potential $1 billion that may or may not ever happen and in any case would involve major changes to the league's structure?

I'll take those odds.

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